struggling with beliefs

[amandatea]

I used to not want to read the Bible. I had the thought in my mind that it was boring, verbouse, and confusing. It was probably the Devil that was putting these thoughts in my head because when I finally really wanted a relationship with God and asked for Him to help lead me through the Bible I read it with more clarity and found it interesting and exciting! I'm reading the New Testament over again just because I love it and it is just so awesome to read all the amazing things Jesus actually did!!! I understand how it is hard to pick it up and just read it when you don't know where to begin, well I got this Bible App on my phone and it is great! It really helps me. Every night I meditate on what I read through Mark, maybe 2-3 pages. Then I'll read 4 Proverbs(Just finished all of Psalms yay! ) Then I'll go through these plans that you can do. It's like devotionals that you can download. Some last 2 weeks others can last months. I have one where it is "Walking with Jesus through the New Testament" and it is more reading and highlights points. I recommend it for sure! I also have this Teen study Bible which comments through the Bible to get you thinking and that's good too.

When you are in love with the Lord, reading the Bible is a pleasure. A truly converted Christian becomes hungry for the truth and the Bible is where you find it. The more I read the Bible, the more I love God and the more I love God, the more I want to read the Bible. That was probably His plan.

 

[MyLordMySavior]

Sorry, gotta blip in here - the Bible is the 100% inerrant word of God. If you could just pick and choose the parts that you believe are relevant, then we have nothing we can depend on for legitimate info on God.

I see little about Genesis that is metaphorical.

Keep struggling, OP. You have gotten past the surface level of truth, and a deeper truth is waiting for you. You just have to dig for it.

I know that there are translations, etc. and people involved in the workings of the scripture. But if God can create the world with a word, He can keep the truths He wants us to know in that book.

 

[MyLordMySavior]

When you are in love with the Lord, reading the Bible is a pleasure. A truly converted Christian becomes hungry for the truth and the Bible is where you find it. The more I read the Bible, the more I love God and the more I love God, the more I want to read the Bible. That was probably His plan.

Completely agree with you! I love reading the Bible everyday! It makes me feel close to God <3

 

[Koakku]

You should pray and ask God for understanding and insight when reading his word. You should also persist in reading his word even when you don't feel like it because it's most beneficial for you, i get like that a lot as well but i have to force myself to read it because without it i'll feel vain. The doubts probably come from the enemy because of the lack you have of reading the word but whenever there is doubts you always have the word of truth. I know it might seem like the least expected thing that'll help but reading the bible is really the answer to a lot of things.

 

[Ark100]

I have been a Christian for many years, but now find myself questioning a lot of the basic Christian tenets if you will.

I don't like to read the Bible--too many confusing things there and stuff that doesn't make sense.

I still believe there is a God and I still believe in Jesus. I am just wondering if I will be able to hang onto belief. If I can't believe the Bible is the inspired, infallible word of God, how can I know what to believe.

Anyway, I fell like I am in a spiritual limbo- not unbelieving, yet not totally believing. I don't even repeat certain phrases in church when it comes to the Bible.

The word of God and His ways does not make sense to some because human mind is CARNAL. Think for a second if you had the mind of God. Not that you will but imagine you knew the Father inside and outside like JESUS did. Its not really to do with what you think you need to have figured out. God;s ways really are NOT our ways. His ways are further, above and beyond ours.

Therefore if you really want to get to know the real truth, nature and who God is, its best to TRY to submit to Him, even in admission that you are confused but you still trust Him to reveal Himself to you because He is HOLY, BLAMELESS, ALL-KNOWING, THE CREATOR, THE ALPHA AND OMEGA and the one who knows the end from the beginning.

Faith in God is tusting Him in the midst of all chaos, hurt, disappointment etc that would normally push you away. It can be hard to do but you should pray for help that the Lord helps you. When people seek, they find.

I have had my moments too a while ago where some things in the Bible made me confused, and it kind of hurt me and I asked questions in my mind and to the Lord. But what I came to realise at the end of the day is that God knows BEST and we really, as humans have only been shown a glimpse of who the Father is in His entirety. I find I cannot question God anymore, its all gone. I simply just trust Him for He is all-knowing. I trust Him for I know He is the creator of the Heaven and Earth and tiny me. Holy Spirit imparts TRUTH into the lives of God' s children when they read the word and are walking in line with God.

This is where my problem lies. There are many things in the Bible that do comfort me and cause me to see God as loving and kind-great. There are other things that scare me to death. I don't understand how God could command people to slaughter all people women, children included. Yes, I have heard some explanations of those passages and I am sure my pastor would do his best, but I am also willing to bet that he would use the same or similar explanations.

Years ago I struggled with the fact that Abraham was asked to sacrifice his son. I struggled so much, I just left religion alone for quite a while. I cannot accept pat answers and repeated explanations. I just don't work that way. I got over this eventually, but I still don't like to hear that passage.


I am not being rude, but I stay away from the Bible at this point in time. I still believe there is a God, but I am not sure if I am right about who He is and all.

I have never struggled with GOD asking Abraham to sacrifice His son. I don't know many people who struggle with it. Its clearly written in the word why and what made God do it. It was a test. Many times our earthly fathers test us as well by asking us to do (???) things just to see how much we care about them, but in actuality they do not want us to do that thing, but only a test. Why can't you accept it like that? Its not like God made him kill his son. A ram was already stuck to a tree which abraham sacrificed.

I don't disagree with your right/free will to question things, but when you question, if you want the truth revealed to you. Learn to still admit you may not know or understand because you are only a clay. BUT ASK the POTTER (The Father) who is all knowing to reveal Himself to you in a whole new way and open the eyes of your heart through Jesus Christ

 

[hedrick]

This is where my problem lies. There are many things in the Bible that do comfort me and cause me to see God as loving and kind-great. There are other things that scare me to death. I don't understand how God could command people to slaughter all people women, children included. Yes, I have heard some explanations of those passages and I am sure my pastor would do his best, but I am also willing to bet that he would use the same or similar explanations.

Years ago I struggled with the fact that Abraham was asked to sacrifice his son. I struggled so much, I just left religion alone for quite a while. I cannot accept pat answers and repeated explanations. I just don't work that way. I got over this eventually, but I still don't like to hear that passage.

I may or may not talk to my pastor. I really believe I will hear what I have already read. I am also concerned that he will think I wasn't walking close enough to God. I won't say I was a sold out selfless Christian, but I would share with people I worked with and my son and I often read the Bible together (we stayed in the NT). Could I have worked harder? Yes, but I don't think it would help in this case. I really only think it would have caused me to be confused earlier.

I am not being rude, but I stay away from the Bible at this point in time. I still believe there is a God, but I am not sure if I am right about who He is and all.

The Bible contains lots of voices, whose ideas about God tend to differ. I would suggest to you that the Prophets and Jesus are the key. The view of the later prophets is that Israel was intended to be a light to the Gentiles (non-Jews), not their conqueror. So I look at the OT as the process of God bringing israel to understand him. Many people in Israel didn't understand, and at times did terrible things. But when reading a section of the BIble, ask yourself where it is in this story.

On the specific things you mention:

What does story of Abraham and Isaac mean? If it were a model for how we should treat our children, it would be terrible. But it is not. It shows the end of human sacrifice. God will always provide another way to worship him. Furthermore, in the Jewish tradition, Isaac's submission is seen as a model, whose effects benefit his people, much as Isaiah 53 and Jesus' death. (In the story, Isaac is old enough that he certainly understood what was going on and accepted it. So it's not just Abraham's obedience, but Isaac's.) Scholars see it has one of the things that influenced Christian understandings of Jesus. Of course it's unlikely that it is an actual piece of history, but it's still an important story for those reasons.

Fortunately it's unlikely that the slaughters in Joshua actually happened. Archaeologists tell us that Israel was not a foreign group invading the holy land from Egypt, but that Israelite culture developed in the highlands, and slowly (and incompletely) took over the land. On the other hand, even the books with strong historical basis (e.g. Kings) show plenty of violence. I am simply skeptical that God commanded it. We know from Jesus how God wants us to deal with people. I think the Bible gives us an honest view of how Israel was, which forms the background for the teachings of the prophets and Jesus.

 

[The Fire Rises]

The Bible contains lots of voices, whose ideas about God tend to differ. I would suggest to you that the Prophets and Jesus are the key. The view of the later prophets is that Israel was intended to be a light to the Gentiles (non-Jews), not their conqueror. So I look at the OT as the process of God bringing israel to understand him. Many people in Israel didn't understand, and at times did terrible things. But when reading a section of the BIble, ask yourself where it is in this story.

On the specific things you mention:

What does story of Abraham and Isaac mean? If it were a model for how we should treat our children, it would be terrible. But it is not. It shows the end of human sacrifice. God will always provide another way to worship him. Furthermore, in the Jewish tradition, Isaac's submission is seen as a model, whose effects benefit his people, much as Isaiah 53 and Jesus' death. (In the story, Isaac is old enough that he certainly understood what was going on and accepted it. So it's not just Abraham's obedience, but Isaac's.) Scholars see it has one of the things that influenced Christian understandings of Jesus. Of course it's unlikely that it is an actual piece of history, but it's still an important story for those reasons.

Fortunately it's unlikely that the slaughters in Joshua actually happened. Archaeologists tell us that Israel was not a foreign group invading the holy land from Egypt, but that Israelite culture developed in the highlands, and slowly (and incompletely) took over the land. On the other hand, even the books with strong historical basis (e.g. Kings) show plenty of violence. I am simply skeptical that God commanded it. We know from Jesus how God wants us to deal with people. I think the Bible gives us an honest view of how Israel was, which forms the background for the teachings of the prophets and Jesus.

If they (the massacres) didn't happen, why were they put in God's Word. Because most people on here claim it 100% HIS Word and 100% true.

 

[paul1149]

I really want to know why God would ask a group of people to kill all of another group including women and children. I am not being a trouble maker by bringing this up, I really find it disturbing.

I also want to know why in the OT if a woman is found not to be a virgin, they are to stone her. What happened to "Whoever is free of sin, cast the first stone."

These passages cause me a lot of grief and confusion and even tears. I feel that I am heretical even questioning the Bible, but on the other hand I feel saddened and confused as to why many people just accept it as it is and don't feel grief and confusion.

cabsmom,

The problem with the position you outlined in the OP is that this world is not neutral ground. There is a very real enemy of your soul, and he is trying to destroy everything about you. If you block off the word of God - which He has exalted even above His name - you are cutting off both your strength and your protection.

God had good reasons for His actions in the OT. Have you seen pictures of Palestinian babies adorned with suicide belts? Picture that back then, when there was even less chance in the people for a change in heart.

More importantly, God chose to work in history with what He had. He respected the slow pace of cultural evolution because when He gave man free will He meant business. His gifts are without repentance, and giving us free will was the only way to let the secrets of man's heart become manifest.

And yet, He has not abandoned man in all this. He has been working in it, accomplishing His will both for those who love Him and those who hate Him. In the fulness of time all things will be made manifest.

But to stand aside and say, "I don't like that. That's too cruel" is actually to judge God. Do you believe you have more moral sensibility or more compassion than the One who went to the cruel Cross for you? That is something that truly makes no sense.

I do agree that the Bible can be used idolatrously. But to disregard it is not the solution to that problem. Rather, it should be honored as the very word of God, the word of salvation and life. If there's something you don't like, it's better to trust God and ask for the understanding you need rather than judge it and walk away.

Edit: let me add that you are not heretical in questioning these things. That is how we arrive at understanding. That is exactly what the Bereans were commended for doing in Acts. God has a satisfying solution for you, but it will be obtained only through faith.

 

[cabsmom]

cabsmom,



But to stand aside and say, "I don't like that. That's too cruel" is actually to judge God. Do you believe you have more moral sensibility or more compassion than the One who went to the cruel Cross for you? That is something that truly makes no sense.

.

Ok, you may not mean it this way, but to me this sounds like I am just throwing out which parts of the Bible I don't like in a very flippant way. I have been struggling with this for 1 1/2 years and in the past also many years ago. I really don't get some of this stuff.

I understand that in the Gospels Jesus died for us and sacrificed His own life in order to save us while we still sinners. What I don't understand (and maybe it IS just because I am a human) is what about the people back then? Do they have a chance at salvation if they were killed in childhood?

I understand the world was evil, but the world today is evil also. How much worse does it have to get to be on the same level as then?

Do the non-virgins in OT times not get a chance at redemption? I think in my heart that if Jesus were there at that time, He would have stopped those stoning also. But, that is confusing because it seems that the Bible supports these stonings in the OT.

Maybe I am missing a huge chunk of the picture, but in all honesty if I have to take a break from reading at least the OT, then I will. I have OCD and to simply tell me to believe something out of faith is not going to happen or at least it rarely does in my mind. If you don't understand OCD, then you can't possibly know how hard this stuff is.

 

[cabsmom]

Why is it that you don't believe that Holy Bible is God's words of truth? Study to show yourself approved. If you study the Holy Bible and you have a question about that what is written, then you can look it up in the Hebrew and Greek to get a clearer definition of that scripture. But since you say that you don't like to read the Bible, then how do you know what is written in it if you don't open it and read it? It is easy to put down something that you don't partake of, but if you partake of it then you should find that it is rich and that it is food to the bones, and to the joints and marrow, and gives life and light and wisdom. There's an old saying, "You only get out of something that what you put into it." If you put forth half-effort, or worse no effort: then you will reap half benefit, or worse reap nothing. So I encourage you to give it your all, and you will not be disappointed with the returns and the blessings that you will receive. Amen? Amen.

I used to say I believed just that, but I hadn't really thought it through. Now I am not sure one way or the other. I will say this though:

A person cannot make themselves believe something. I can't will myself to get over this problem and just merrily go on my way and ignore the real questions that come up in my mind.

Also, just so anyone who reads this thinks I am trying to stir up trouble. I am not. I don't talk to anyone about this in person. I have in the past to maybe 2 or 3 people but not usually in detail. Why? Because I don't want to be a stumbling block to others. I don't want to be heretical. I don't want to sow discord. However, my mind screams for relief. My heart aches that everything I thought I believed in is so confusing.

This has even caused me to come to the conclusions that some long term plans will not be. I wanted to be a missionary. I don't think anyone will send a missionary anywhere with these doubts and questions. I can't blame them and I won't even try to sneak in under the radar.

This is not something I decided to do, it is something that started slowly and got worse.

I don't think I am putting down the Bible and I apologize if I have come across that way.

 

[paul1149]

Ok, you may not mean it this way, but to me this sounds like I am just throwing out which parts of the Bible I don't like in a very flippant way. I have been struggling with this for 1 1/2 years and in the past also many years ago. I really don't get some of this stuff.

I understand that in the Gospels Jesus died for us and sacrificed His own life in order to save us while we still sinners. What I don't understand (and maybe it IS just because I am a human) is what about the people back then? Do they have a chance at salvation if they were killed in childhood?

I understand the world was evil, but the world today is evil also. How much worse does it have to get to be on the same level as then?

Do the non-virgins in OT times not get a chance at redemption? I think in my heart that if Jesus were there at that time, He would have stopped those stoning also. But, that is confusing because it seems that the Bible supports these stonings in the OT.

Maybe I am missing a huge chunk of the picture, but in all honesty if I have to take a break from reading at least the OT, then I will. I have OCD and to simply tell me to believe something out of faith is not going to happen or at least it rarely does in my mind. If you don't understand OCD, then you can't possibly know how hard this stuff is.

My apologies. I had a feeling I hadn't expressed myself too clearly on that one. I wasn't trying to accuse you of willfully judging God, I was just saying that that is where the line of reasoning ultimately ends up. It's perfectly fine to question everything. My coming to the Lord was horrendously difficult. I hope He broke the mold after He made me! So I'm not going to condemn anyone who is sincere about their search.

Your concern seems to be about fairness. I went through that too, until I realized that my questions were based on immaturity, and that much of the teaching I had gotten had the same fault. God is far more fair than we could ever be, and He sees the entire picture to boot, whereas we can only judge the externals. Look at this interesting line from the NT. This is Paul speaking of the Jews:

As regards the gospel, they are enemies for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers. -Rom 11:28​

But Christ is the only way to the Father, right? Yes, Jesus explicitly said so. But what He didn't say was that people had to accept Him in a way that we can see and understand.

If you look further, there are many scriptures that support the principle that:

sin is not counted where there is no law. -Rom 5:13​

You see, God judges the heart. And He also judges on a curve. The Jews are playing the game with a "golf handicap" according to Romans 11. Those ancients without the law had their own handicap. They will be judged according to the light they were given, as to whether they accepted Christ.

You need not have concerns that our loving Father will be fair to all. "His judgments shall be proven altogether righteous". "The judge of the whole world will do what is right". And He also is the same one who came and died a horrendous criminal's death for us!

At the same time, He will judge those who reject Him. This is why Paul goes on to say "behold the kindness and severity of God" in Rom 11.

Once I began to see the immensity of God, how utterly perfect He is in all His ways, I began to see Him as a huge mountain, and there I was, a tiny gnat, buzzing against Him. I began to trust Him completely in everything. My concerns became irrelevant, and my regard for Him and His word increased, as did my peace. The only thing that worries me these days is myself - that I may not be hearing Him correctly or fulfilling His calling. That is what concerns and scares me.

BTW, I probably had some kind of borderline OCD at one time, and other horrors as well, but grace has made it irrelevant. The more I focus on the Completed Work, the less I care about my own (except that I want to fulfill my calling as best as possible).

 

[cabsmom]

My apologies. I had a feeling I hadn't expressed myself too clearly on that one. I wasn't trying to accuse you of willfully judging God, I was just saying that that is where the line of reasoning ultimately ends up. It's perfectly fine to question everything. My coming to the Lord was horrendously difficult. I hope He broke the mold after He made me! So I'm not going to condemn anyone who is sincere about their search.

Your concern seems to be about fairness. I went through that too, until I realized that my questions were based on immaturity, and that much of the teaching I had gotten had the same fault. God is far more fair than we could ever be, and He sees the entire picture to boot, whereas we can only judge the externals. Look at this interesting line from the NT. This is Paul speaking of the Jews:

As regards the gospel, they are enemies for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers. -Rom 11:28​

But Christ is the only way to the Father, right? Yes, Jesus explicitly said so. But what He didn't say was that people had to accept Him in a way that we can see and understand.

If you look further, there are many scriptures that support the principle that:

sin is not counted where there is no law. -Rom 5:13​

You see, God judges the heart. And He also judges on a curve. The Jews are playing the game with a "golf handicap" according to Romans 11. Those ancients without the law had their own handicap. They will be judged according to the light they were given, as to whether they accepted Christ.

You need not have concerns that our loving Father will be fair to all. "His judgments shall be proven altogether righteous". "The judge of the whole world will do what is right". And He also is the same one who came and died a horrendous criminal's death for us!

At the same time, He will judge those who reject Him. This is why Paul goes on to say "behold the kindness and severity of God" in Rom 11.

Once I began to see the immensity of God, how utterly perfect He is in all His ways, I began to see Him as a huge mountain, and there I was, a tiny gnat, buzzing against Him. I began to trust Him completely in everything. My concerns became irrelevant, and my regard for Him and His word increased, as did my peace. The only thing that worries me these days is myself - that I may not be hearing Him correctly or fulfilling His calling. That is what concerns and scares me.

BTW, I probably had some kind of borderline OCD at one time, and other horrors as well, but grace has made it irrelevant. The more I focus on the Completed Work, the less I care about my own (except that I want to fulfill my calling as best as possible).

Thank you for your kind-herated sincere reply. It has touched my heart deeply.

I don't want to let go of what I have held so dearly for quite some time. I was saved originally when I was 16 and then I let go for a while. I rededicated my life at about 26 and have been going to the same church since then. I am now 43.

I wanted very much to become a missionary or at least work with people here in some sort of real way in spreading the Gospel and God's love in tangilble ways for a LONG time. So this struggle is heartbreaking in many ways.

I also feel like an outsider at church. I am halfway there and halfway not there. Sometimes I want to run out because I am so confused.

While I may not have been doing all I could have been doing, I was sharing the Gospel with co-workers and I work in a place where there are few Christians. I can't really say with authority the percentage, but my educated guess is that it is low. I have had various reactions from people. One couldn't understand how I believed in a God. One was agnostic and admitted that sometimes he is about ready to believe (not really due to my conversation, but other reasons).

I have really wanted to be like Jesus. I would do things that I wouldn't normally do things out of my own selfish behavior. There was a time that God told me (or so I think) that I was to be friendly to a particular person. I wasn't being rude to her, but I wasn't reaching out to her. One reason is that another co-worker (and friend) had a big problem with this person. I followed God's leading and I shared God's message of love with her and I felt instant freedom from worry about what the other person might think.

I say all this to share my heart with you and try my best to portray that I am not meaning to stir up strife or trouble. I am just a desperate person on a desperate search.

Anyway, thank you again for your kind reply.

 

[paul1149]

Anyway, thank you again for your kind reply.

And thank you for yours. I really got a profound sense of the value of your soul in God's eyes as I read your account. Not just a mental image, but a spiritual impartation. These issues of the heart are so important. So much hangs on whether we see God correctly. The will of God for our lives is not automatic. It takes diligent effort to achieve it. That's a paradox, because the biggest element of being in God's will is to rest in Him, but we often must labor to get there, just as Hebrews 4 says.

God loves you so much, I can't begin to describe it. It is heartbreaking that we so easily fall into fear, uncertainty and doubt regarding Him, because we only hurt ourselves. Trust me, I know, because I've done it all.

I really pray that you get the revelation you need to break through. Every negative thing you've been told about God is false. Every one. The Father of Light is perfect in every way. Jesus is altogether lovely and flawless. Oh, that we would set our hearts to believe and rest in Him!

And if you don't find the answers in your immediate church context, don't worry about it. God is faithful. For so very long the Lord gave me Hosea 2.14 as my guiding scripture. But that's another story.

I believe you are very close, cabsmom. If I can help in any way left me know.

 

[BFine]

Ok, you may not mean it this way, but to me this sounds like I am just throwing out which parts of the Bible I don't like in a very flippant way. I have been struggling with this for 1 1/2 years and in the past also many years ago. I really don't get some of this stuff.

I understand that in the Gospels Jesus died for us and sacrificed His own life in order to save us while we still sinners. What I don't understand (and maybe it IS just because I am a human) is what about the people back then? Do they have a chance at salvation if they were killed in childhood?

I understand the world was evil, but the world today is evil also. How much worse does it have to get to be on the same level as then?

*You are talking the difference in cultures, laws, times etc.
In biblical times --sexual purity was highly valued and fathers were
responsible for protecting and providing for their daughters-- this was
a major thing in that culture--plus, the family's standing/reputation
was bound up in this.




Do the non-virgins in OT times not get a chance at redemption? I think in my heart that if Jesus were there at that time, He would have stopped those stoning also. But, that is confusing because it seems that the Bible supports these stonings in the OT.

*Do you recall Rehab the harlot who hid the spies?
Her act brought about redemption for her and those in her house..
all of them were spared.

King David's daughter Tamar was raped by her half brother, Amnon--
who was later killed by their half brother Absalom. Tamar wasn't stoned
but lived out her days "in the shadows"-- unmarried due to the laws/customs
of the times.
Add-on: Absalom had held his sister Tamar in high regard and even
named his own daughter Tamar.

I also note: Solomon first demonstrates wisdom by resolving a dispute between two harlots involving an infant. Solomon ruled and the baby was
given to it's mother...Solomon didn't order those women to be killed or stoned.

Also, it's not only a woman who is to be stoned to death if she is taken
in the act of having sex/fornicating-- In the case of committing adultery,
the Law said that both the man and the woman are to be put to death.
That's why the woman taken in the very act of
adultery wasn't put to death... I almost forgot--
There was this problem too:
The Law of Moses and the edicts of the Romans challenged each other.
Such a situation arises whenever they are commanded by the
Law of Moses to impose the death penalty for a particular offense,
such as adultery.

The Romans have authorized their appointee, the Governor, to impose the death sentence. No other person may do so.
What is the right thing to do in this situation?
The pious leaders brought the woman taken in adultery and their "case"
into the Temple were Jesus was teaching-- Jesus resolved the matter.


Maybe I am missing a huge chunk of the picture, but in all honesty if I have to take a break from reading at least the OT, then I will. I have OCD and to simply tell me to believe something out of faith is not going to happen or at least it rarely does in my mind. If you don't understand OCD, then you can't possibly know how hard this stuff is.

*As I have found...one doesn't just read the Old Testament or even the New Testament for that matter-- one must
study/research it. That's why I have gained so many books on biblical
history and Hebrew/Greek languages...I also have purchased several
bible translations...the older, the better...I was raised with my family's
old bible that was handed down through the generations lol-- I enjoyed
researching and finding out what the words mean-- learning about customs etc.

 

[damascusroad]

The Bible presents itself in / with great clarity if one follows Paul's admonishment to Timothy (2 Timothy 2:15-16, KJV) to "rightly divide." That simply means that everything in the Old Covenant is not applicable in the New. The Pastor who presents a message from the New and then provides "must do" qualifications for it from the Old has missed the boat. If folks would understand this, confusion, discouragement, straying, and above all, denominations, would disappear.

 

[amandatea]

I understand that in the Gospels Jesus died for us and sacrificed His own life in order to save us while we still sinners. What I don't understand (and maybe it IS just because I am a human) is what about the people back then? Do they have a chance at salvation if they were killed in childhood?

I understand the world was evil, but the world today is evil also. How much worse does it have to get to be on the same level as then?

Do the non-virgins in OT times not get a chance at redemption? I think in my heart that if Jesus were there at that time, He would have stopped those stoning also. But, that is confusing because it seems that the Bible supports these stonings in the OT.

This is actually a great question. This is why it is important to understand what the Bible is. It is the written testimony of Jesus.
The OT is about the coming Messiah.
I firmly believe that like now, If they believed the prophecy of the coming Messiah (which I think all of Isreal did) and put God first in their lives and had real faith, they were saved. I think the people then were a lot like people now except that the truth wasn't nearly as hidden as it is now. People either chose to be faithful to the Lord or not.

As far as children being killed, I believe that children under the age of understanding -which is different for each child - would not face the death penalty in God's judgement - they are innocent like Adam and Eve were before the fall. I got that makes sense.

 

[yellowfree]

Maybe you can try to learn to hear God's voice...
pray about learning to hear from Him

check out CWG ministries online
they have free books and articles on there that could help

 

[damascusroad]

cabsmom, you wrote:

"I understand the world was evil, but the world today is evil also. How much worse does it have to get to be on the same level as then? Do the non-virgins in OT times not get a chance at redemption? I think in my heart that if Jesus were there at that time, He would have stopped those stoning also. But, that is confusing because it seems that the Bible supports these stonings in the OT."

Please refer to my response in post #35. We can journey on in cunfusion, or we can rightly divide. Beginning in Genesis 12 the Hebrew Nation was called upon to be responsive to God as a nation. The Covenant, the Law, were based upon that biblical truth. There's a huge difference between that and being called upon to confess Jesus as Savior as a Christian, one person at a time, as in Romans 10:8-13. Jews were, as a nation, created "chosen." A newborn baby was a Jew. Thereafter, they were taught in the ways of the Old Covenant. The nation as a whole could stray from God's will. Failing to repent (Jewish, "return" to the Covenant) left the nation as a nation outside of God's will. Christians are created one-by-one, after the prompting of the Holy Spirit and their confession. One by one Christians can stray. One by one they can repent ("return" to their position) through 1 John 1:9, for example. That is not to say that the Christian's status became "lost" again. It is to say that God is there to restore those who stray from fellowship. Straying from fellowship with our Savior is the result of permitting the soulish nature (mind, will, emotions, sin) to take charge.

 

[Albion]

I agree that the Bible should be considered a tool rather than an idol itself

How about something in between those two extremes? Like, divine revelation.

I've started trying to renew my relationship with Christ and the Bible has become a new habit for me. It can be hard to understand sometimes, but the benefits certainly outweigh the difficulties. My advice would be finding a Bible reading partner. One in which you can bounce thoughts and ideas off of. One that can encourage you to keep reading and vice versa. My mother and my aunt are my Bible reading partners. We're reading the Bible in chronological order together and anytime one of us has a question that arise; we'll draw up what resources we have to try and answer our questions. There are many different resources online to help you understand the Bible as well

Sounds like a really good idea.

The Bible was written for the purpose of encouraging and teaching us while we walk with Christ. Trying to have a relationship with Christ without reading the word of God would probably be like trying to teach a history class without ever actually reading anything about history.

So true!

I used to think that the Bible wasn't important when it came to being a Christian, but I feel very differently about that now.

Did you notice that some of the earlier posters who said that the Bible isn't all that important actually were griping about what other Christians had said about it, about some incorrect interpretations of Bible verses, or about how they themselves were schooled earlier in life--none of which is actually a criticism of the Bible itself?

 

[harvester77]

I have been a Christian for many years, but now find myself questioning a lot of the basic Christian tenets if you will.

I don't like to read the Bible--too many confusing things there and stuff that doesn't make sense.

I still believe there is a God and I still believe in Jesus. I am just wondering if I will be able to hang onto belief. If I can't believe the Bible is the inspired, infallible word of God, how can I know what to believe.

Anyway, I fell like I am in a spiritual limbo- not unbelieving, yet not totally believing. I don't even repeat certain phrases in church when it comes to the Bible.

The bible is what has strengthened my faith but admittedly sometimes we need to go over with a pastor or in my case I have asked my friend who attended bible studies and cleared things up for me. After going to Jerusalem last year my faith is strong but of course we all have niggles and doubts. We are human and God has not created as robots so we will have these doubt BUT as someone mentioned you are starving yourself of the most powerful book of God there. Study it carefully.