Struggles with Calvinism

[twin1954]

Nice thoughts, but if you want to know the truth, you have to go back to the Scriptures in their context.

Ezekiel 33:11-12 (NIV) 11 Say to them, ‘As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways! Why will you die, people of Israel?’
12 “Therefore, son of man, say to your people, ‘If someone who is righteous disobeys, that person’s former righteousness will count for nothing. And if someone who is wicked repents, that person’s former wickedness will not bring condemnation. The righteous person who sins will not be allowed to live even though they were formerly righteous.’

In other words, God does not ordain good and evil, and all that occurs; Rather, a Sovereign God righteously works out His will according to His omniscience and omnipotence. God’s sovereignty, glory and perfect will is being worked out in His creation in which every person is responsible for his own choices, just as God himself clearly instructs.

God is not a man thatHe delights in the punishment of the wicked. Calvinsts don't believe that at all.

In the passage that you quote God is simply showing the insanity of wickedness. It actually says nothing about free will. To apply it to prove free will is to make the passage say something that it doesn't.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Answer questions that would incriminate? Incriminate me with who? Judge You? I don't mind answering any question. But the only reason you want me to is so you can argue that I'm WRONG! Because of course you are the final authority on all things concerning Bible interpretation. The fact that you might be wrong would not even begin to cross your mind and that is a person who cannot learn. A closed mind.
The argument between Reformed and the other which really has no name it is so varied and borderless the actual doctrines have no definitions; the argument is so senseless and pointless and has nothing to do with whether a person is saved. Who CARES if a person thinks they made the choice of they think God made the choice? Either way, if you are saved your saved. THAT is why I don't want to carry on with this ARGUMENT and that is the only thing it would be. An argument. Some people think arguing makes them sound intelligent. I don't.

I see.

 

[twin1954]

That correct. A question is not reasoning.

It is a diversion intended to poison the well. Why bring up Calvin and Servetus otherwise?

 

[twin1954]

I see.

Could you point me to the questions that you want answered. I will do my best to answer them.

 

[Kenny'sID]

You probably won't be able to follow this since I'm not breaking up the quotes but here goes.
I THOUGHT I did answer you. I put a great deal of effort and thought into answering you (even though I was and am in a very bad place) and it is beyond me to understand what your problem is with what I wrote. Is it that you didn't get the answers you wanted?
Where have you been arrogant and judgemental? By that I'm guessing you want me to put each time in separate quotes and your right, that isn't going to happen. So let me put it this way. Pretty much in most of what you say to me. Here's one.
"I'll just know you are unable to defend Calvinism." Just because I don't want to play this rediculous, unprofitable game anymore , and play it your way you make the JUDGEMENT that I can't defend my beliefs. That's pretty arrogant. And you never acknowledge any wrong doing in your part, the things that I have pointed out and the things you try to keep hidden. You merely say, once again, I'm in the wrong. I KNOW you didn't use that WORD. Didn't have to. Any way no legitimate complaints from me, just sour grapes.
You say this debate between the two theologies is a serious matter. I don't think it is and in any case it has been debated since Augustine or before so I doubt we'll come to agreement in this thread or this century. I only continued in this thread correcting some atrocious and untrue things that we're being said about Reformed Theology, not to debate whether I'm right and you are wrong. And no matter how often I correct those misstatements, people keep insisting on thinking and repeating them. And if you be honest with yourself, you have no intention of actually CONSIDERING or giving much thought to what I might say, or prove with scripture about Reformed. You really just want to WIN in your own mind. I don't NEED to defend my beliefs to you or anyone else and I don't WANT to.

I see.

 

[renniks]

If He didn't then how did sin enter the world? Was He taken by surprise?

You just assume that everything that happens is God's will, even though scripture says otherwise? God acts like a jilted lover all through the Bible and you want to claim he wanted to be rejected. Weird.

 

[renniks]

Not at all. God's decree didn't force Adam to sin. Adam sinned because he wanted to. The attempt to sit in judgment of God by making Him the author of sin is ridiculous. It discounts His wisdom, His goodness and His righteousness.

If God had not ordained that sin enter the world we would like the angels, not knowing the mercy of God. God commended His love toward us in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us.

Adam sinned because he wanted to? Not if God rendered it inevitable. Sure, he wanted to under Calvinism, because God caused him to want to. It's all nonsense. The Bible makes no sense if one doesn't believe in libertarian free will.

 

[Tra Phull]

I think I was the one who brought up Servetus.

But thanks, I now have new stuff to put in my signature.

The Servetus death is history, information about Calvin which should be known by all who struggle with Calvinism.

...

 

[Kenny'sID]

Could you point me to the questions that you want answered. I will do my best to answer them.

Are you telling me truthfully you did not read the post where I asked you to answer all the questions, and that I even put them in bold so there is no confusion? If you did see it as I suspect, and because this happens so often, do you think it's fair I find it for you?

Anyway, it's this post Struggles with Calvinism

 

[twin1954]

You just assume that everything that happens is God's will, even though scripture says otherwise? God acts like a jilted lover all through the Bible and you want to claim he wanted to be rejected. Weird.

That is not an argument it is an accusation without a single shred of evidence.

Please show me where the Scriptures say otherwise.

 

[renniks]

That is not an argument it is an accusation without a single shred of evidence.

Please show me where the Scriptures say otherwise.

You stiff-necked people! Your hearts and ears are still uncircumcised. You are just like your ancestors: You always resist the Holy Spirit!

 

[twin1954]

Adam sinned because he wanted to? Not if God rendered it inevitable. Sure, he wanted to under Calvinism, because God caused him to want to. It's all nonsense. The Bible makes no sense if one doesn't believe in libertarian free will.

Once more not an argument. The Bible makes plenty of sense without libertarian free will. Hence Calvinism. Calvinism is very logical and very biblical. We don't just imagine things out of thin air. Nor do we build doctrine from stand alone verses. Ours is a systematic understanding of the Scriptures as a whole.

If you can't really refute our arguments then perhaps the problem isn't with us but with your theology.

 

[twin1954]

I think I was the one who brought up Servetus.

But thanks, I now have new stuff to put in my signature.

The Servetus death is history, information about Calvin which should be known by all who struggle with Calvinism.

...

You can do as you wish. No skin off my back. I am not offended in the least.

Bringing up the history is legitimate if we were discussing history. But to bring it up in the context of a debate on Calvinism and free will is just as I pointed out. Like it or not.

 

[twin1954]

Are you telling me truthfully you did not read the post where I asked you to answer all the questions, and that I even put them in bold so there is no confusion? If you did see it as I suspect, and because this happens so often, do you think it's fair I find it for you?

Anyway, it's this post Struggles with Calvinism

I may have read it I just don't remember it. I wasn't responding to every single post for a while because it is far too time consuming.

I am not obligated to respond to every post sorry. Moreover just because you post questions and I don't answer doesn't mean that I can't answer them. I asked you to point me to them because you seem to think that the answers will destroy Calvinism.

Thank you for giving me the link. I will look them over and give you my answers.

 

[renniks]

Nor do we build doctrine from stand alone verses.

Rotflol. Oh my goodness, that's a good one! I can't count the number of Calvinists who tried to snow me with out of context verses, often just pieces of verses lumped together.

 

[renniks]

If you can't really refute our arguments then perhaps the problem isn't with us but with your theology.

You haven't even responded to anything I've said. You're just doing the normal calvinist, " Oh you just don't understand, you poor ignorant soul" tactic

 

[twin1954]

You stiff-necked people! Your hearts and ears are still uncircumcised. You are just like your ancestors: You always resist the Holy Spirit!

Are we getting frustrated? Can't come up with an actual argument? If you can do so, instead of throwing out accusations willy nilly.

 

[twin1954]

Rotflol. Oh my goodness, that's a good one! I can't count the number of Calvinists who tried to snow me with out of context verses, often just pieces of verses lumped together.

Not this Calvinist. I simply post the passages without comment usually. I leave it to the Spirit to open your eyes.

I never try to make a Calvinst out of anyone. Calvinism isn't salvation, Christ is.

If I could make you a Calvinist I wouldn't. All I would have done would be to get you to change your theology. It would do your soul no good.

I defend Calvinism because I am absolutely convinced it is the truth according to the Scriptures. I understand your position and why, believe it or not, I just happen to disagree.

 

[renniks]

Are we getting frustrated? Can't come up with an actual argument? If you can do so, instead of throwing out accusations willy nilly.

A verse is an accusation? You said that God's will cannot be resisted. This verse says otherwise.

 

[Butch5]

It is a diversion intended to poison the well. Why bring up Calvin and Servetus otherwise?

I didn't bring it up. However, as I said, a question is not a fallacy. It's a request for information, not an argument.