Strippers...What are your thoughts??

constance said:

It is a horrible life. It is full of drugs, drinking, sex, prostitution, rape, violence...

Why would you want to support that?

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That's not true at all. The strippers I've met live completely normal lives. For them, stripping is just a means of making money, like any other. They're not prostitutes, either -- they don't even touch their viewers.

The worst complaints you'll typically hear are of sore muscles and blistered feet. Dancing for hours on end is not easy, especially in heels! Rude patrons can sometimes be a problem as well.

Lokisdottir said:

That's not true at all. The strippers I've met live completely normal lives. For them, stripping is just a means of making money, like any other. They're not prostitutes, either -- they don't even touch their viewers.

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Well, you must know a very select group of strippers. Here in Chicago, and in Detroit and Flint where I have also lived, my statement is very true. Go ask a cop.

And maybe it has something to do with the age of your peer group - strippers my age usually are at "retirement" age.

Constance

bafluffia said:

Before, you go on I'm not in anyway supporting them so I hope no one takes offense to this.

Anyways, my question is how do you all feel about family members/bf/gf's seeing strippers? I recently heard a distant friend that I am staying with talk about going to see one and immediately felt very awkward around them! I just don't understand why anyone would want to see one. Or why boyfriends, girlfriends, husbands, wives, fathers, mothers or what not would feel the need to go see them so strongly that they would risk that relationship. Just my opinion and again sorry in advance if I offended anyone!

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The strippers I dated were fun girls. But that started happening years after I stopped going to the clubs.

When I was in the Navy, I used to like to go to the stripper bars, topless only, and watch the girls, drink beer, and write poetry.
It was fun, especially for a sex starved sailor.

Jeez, everyone gets so worked up about going to the 'ballet' and seeing a nude woman. You want to see real sleeze, sex, drugs and destruction just pick up a copy of any celebrity gossip mag. Pick up a copy of any supermarket tabloid. Makes the nudy show look like goin' to church on a Sunday mornin'.

ShirleyTemple777 said:

Strippers are yucky.

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Now now, they make more money in an hour than you ever will without a college degree and are actually some very very nice people if you take the time and get to know them. Tess used to get upwards of 250 a night and 500 on the weekends BEFORE tips that was for only about four hours of work.

One of my very closest friends was a stripper, she applied for a job in Vegas on her 18th birthday, started work the next day, and kept going untill she died about three years ago. Tess taught me alot about life and people and was one of the nicest people I have met in my life.

Someone mentioned a look but dont touch policy, that tends to be an industry standard. Patrons may be allowed a quick butt slap or some light touching in any non sexual area but thats rare. The higher quality the place is, the more its frowned uppon. Club bouncers tend to be a little...physical who go beyond what theyre allowed to do and many strippers (Atleast most of them that Tess worked with) know some very very basic self defense so if someone does get too grabby they can prevent the customer from getting too rowdy.

It's a profession just like any other one. They have attractive bodies so if they want to use them to strip, then so be it. A strong man or woman could want to put their strength to use by being a fireman or police officer.

constance said:

I think Christians have a certain obligation to be humanitarian as well as "ethical". Regardless of your opinion as to whether you/your SO should look at strippers, think of what that stripper has to go through in order to present that opportunity to you.

It is a horrible life. It is full of drugs, drinking, sex, prostitution, rape, violence...

Why would you want to support that?

Constance

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My sister had a roommate that stripped to pay for medical school. There were no drugs, drinking, sex, prostituion, rape, or violence. It was dancing and getting paid for it.

constance said:

Well, you must know a very select group of strippers. Here in Chicago, and in Detroit and Flint where I have also lived, my statement is very true. Go ask a cop.

And maybe it has something to do with the age of your peer group - strippers my age usually are at "retirement" age.

Constance

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I don't think it's true, I think by and large, stripping as a profession is pretty safe and lacks many of things you attribute to it. You may also want to look at the cities you named and the locations these strip clubs were located as that probably has more to do with the conditions than the fact that it's a strip club.

I wonder if this kind of activity isn't seedy because we make it so. Society looks down on it, so it's pushed into areas that aren't especially respectable. While it's undoubted that a lot of stripping does carry some nasty baggage with it, would it be there if we didn't frown on it so?

Opalina said:

Strippers are human beings just like yourself, Shirley Temple.

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And some "human beings" are yucky.

Edited to say some human beings can DO yucky THINGS. Like pick their noses or make themselves vomit.

ninabina said:

And some "human beings" are yucky.

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And what, exactly, do you know about these "yucky" human beings?

Bafluffia and Shirley Temple, please don't let wordly or secular people talk you into thinking that your feelings about strippers or strip clubs are "abnormal" because they are not. Granted, there are a lot more liberal women out there nowadays than used to be but there is also a divorce rate that is through the roof. And there's a couple of reasons for that. There's a lot of temptation out there and it gets to even the best of men eventually. I would not feel comfortable letting my sig. other go either and luckily, he doesn't. He went once a long time ago and said he felt very uncomfortable there so......anyways, to me it's a dirty profession, even if most of the strippers are nice, smart people. They might be good but what they do really isn't....imo.


Shirley....I accidentally walked into a strip club with friends when I was 14 and the same word came to my mind when I saw the women dancing nude (yucky!) but more than that I felt a feeling that what I was seeing was "evil" too. Could have been my mother's upbringing of us, very modest and wholesome.

ninabina said:

Bafluffia and Shirley Temple, please don't let wordly or secular people talk you into thinking that your feelings about strippers or strip clubs are "abnormal" because they are not. Granted, there are a lot more liberal women out there nowadays than used to be but there is also a divorce rate that is through the roof. And there's a couple of reasons for that. There's a lot of temptation out there and it gets to even the best of men eventually. I would not feel comfortable letting my sig. other go either and luckily, he doesn't. He went once a long time ago and said he felt very uncomfortable there so......anyways, to me it's a dirty profession, even if most of the strippers are nice, smart people. They might be good but what they do really isn't....imo.

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They most certainly ARE. You may not agree with thier profession, but that does not mean you have to call it dirty. As I said, Tess was one of the best and wisest people I ever knew. Her work friends were all decent people, none of them took drugs and scorned promiscuous sex. Some of them even went to church. You may not agree with thier chosen profession but that does not warrant them being called "yucky" by anyone, especially those who have probably never even met a true stripper.

Antoninus Verus said:

They most certainly ARE. You may not agree with thier profession, but that does not mean you have to call it dirty. As I said, Tess was one of the best and wisest people I ever knew. Her work friends were all decent people, none of them took drugs and scorned promiscuous sex. Some of them even went to church. You may not agree with thier chosen profession but that does not warrant them being called "yucky" by anyone, especially those who have probably never even met a true stripper.

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Ya know what? I don't agree with it BECAUSE I find it dirty. That is how I view it and that won't change so we can just agree to respect each other's difference of opinion. I edited my first comment because I didn't mean to call the individual "yucky" just what they are doing when at "work." And yes, when I was 13 my friends and I all got embarassed and said to each other that was "Yucky." I think it's a pretty normal response. Or would you rather have 13 year old girls looking up to strippers and wanting to be one instead? Then again, we were all raised in church, in a different era (more conservative). So mu opinion is based partly on the way I was raised, partly on how the Holy Spirit convicts me. BTW, what is a "true" stripper? And in all honesty I am curious how one defends the act of making money off of exposing one's private parts in a most lewd and provocative manner in order to elicit sexual arousal and thus cause many men to otherwise sin, since some of them are indeed married.

ninabina said:

Bafluffia and Shirley Temple, please don't let wordly or secular people talk you into thinking that your feelings about strippers or strip clubs are "abnormal" because they are not.

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I don't think it's a problem if you think stripping is wrong and disgusting, everyone has their own preferences, it's the wholesale painting of people as yucky. As you said, the people can be nice, but their profession disgusts you. It's one thing to label the profession, it's another to label the people. I think that's the problem people had with comments about strippers being "yucky" people.

ninabina said:

Granted, there are a lot more liberal women out there nowadays than used to be but there is also a divorce rate that is through the roof. And there's a couple of reasons for that. There's a lot of temptation out there and it gets to even the best of men eventually.

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There isn't a lot more temptation out there. Go to the 1950's, was there pornography, prostitution, and stripping? Yes.

Go to the 1900's, was there pornography, prositution, and stripping? Yes.

For as long as there been film available to the wider public, there has been erotic photos, and before that it was erotic art. And brothels, prostitution, and exotic dancing has been around for ages. The world hasn't really changed as the sex industry has been around since biblical times. I would contest the idea that there's more temptation as you can go back to times as early as the 1950's where the divorce rate wasn't as high, but the sex industry was just as available. I believe you're making the correlation = causality mistake because you have made a correlation without an in-depth analysis.

I would say the divorce rate is much higher because of the idea of independence and the fact that woman can be independent. If you go back 50 years, women weren't hired, they really weren't allowed to work, and they were relegated to the house. When women finally made the move into the workforce and got the equal rights they deserved, staying in a poor relationship really had no incentive before. Whereas before, they were dependent on the husband's income, they now could make their own money and live without the trappings of a bad marriage. I think that plays a larger role in divorce than temptation from the sex industry.

The top reasons for divorce as described by most divorce court judges is:

1. Money
2. Child Rearing
3. Infidelity

I think an argument can be made for infidelity because of temptation, but I still lump it together with the woman's ability to be independent as marital infidelity has always been around and they're not with people in the sex industry. Before a woman didn't leave because she couldn't make money for herself, she couldn't take care of the kids because she was dependent on the husband's income, and leaving your husband may be problematic if you rely on his income and you believe you won't find a new husband.

I think financial independence for the female is the biggest factor in the high rates of divorce seen in this country along with the fact that divorce is accepted by the general population whereas before, people frowned on it and it was seen as a terrible thing.

ninabina said:

I accidentally walked into a strip club with friends when I was 14 and the same word came to my mind when I saw the women dancing nude (yucky!) but more than that I felt a feeling that what I was seeing was "evil" too. Could have been my mother's upbringing of us, very modest and wholesome.

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Hehe, I wonder how that happened?

I've never been to strip club and probably will never go to a strip club. What can I say, I'm cheap and it's not a place I consider to be a positive use of my time and energy.


I just don't see clear heels coming into my view in the future.

That is how I view it and that won't change so we can just agree to respect each other's difference of opinion

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Square

And yes, when I was 13 my friends and I all got embarassed and said to each other that was "Yucky." I think it's a pretty normal response. Or would you rather have 13 year old girls looking up to strippers and wanting to be one instead?

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Id rather have 13 year old girls be open minded rather than judgemental.

BTW, what is a "true" stripper?

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Someone who does it to support him or herself financially. Not someone who does it just because they thought it might be fun or to support a drug habbit.

And in all honesty I am curious how one defends the act of making money off of exposing one's private parts in a most lewd and provocative manner in order to elicit sexual arousal and thus cause many men to otherwise sin, since some of them are indeed married.

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Actually strippers are forbidden to remove any underwear. I think its actually illegal to show anything private below the waist. Some places will forbid taking anything off that exposes breasts. One of the clubs Tess worked at had her dance in just a bikini and she was totally forbidden to take anything off on penalty of immedieate firing.

As far as sin, thats not the stripper's fault. Thats like blaming a knife company when someone gets murdered with a knife that the company made. The stripper provides a service, no one forces people to attend and the customers have their own free will with what to do after the club closes

Antoninus Verus said:

As far as sin, thats not the stripper's fault. Thats like blaming a knife company when someone gets murdered with a knife that the company made. The stripper provides a service, no one forces people to attend and the customers have their own free will with what to do after the club closes

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Strippers don't make clients of strippers, clients make themselves clients of strippers.

'Hehe, I wonder how that happened?

Well, I'm certainly not telling.


Hi Ninja....I agree with what you said regarding the reasons for the divorce rate. I do think that some of it is also the unwillingness of either party to work things out and go through the tough times. Everyone wants instant gratification nowadays and a lot of couples, when they move out of the lust, infatuation stage assume they aren't "in love" anymore and attempt to seek this feeling elsewhere. I suppose, as you said, this has been the case throughout the centuries. I don't know because I wasn't there but human nature is human nature right? I do know that nowadays though women are more "accessible" than just back then the guy would go to the harlot or "cat" house and let out their frustrations but porn is widespread nowadays and porn and stripping just doesn't have the stigma attached to it that it once did. A lot of young men are looking upon the strippers and porn stars and thinking they're the norm and all women should have big boobs, and tiny waists and perfect skin. This puts a lot of pressure on women to have enhancements and such, when their mate should love them for who they are.

Antoninus, thank you for responding in a respectful manner. I have never known a stripper personally. My cousin does some cocktail waitressing in Vegas that's the extent of my knowledge of persons associated with it. I have known prostitutes who were at one time strippers. When one talks about stripping I assume it means taking all their clothing off. If they remain in bathing suits, I think that would be called somthing different? I dunno. As far as sin not being the stripper's fault, I fail to see how they would not be held accountable in part for it. If someone dealt in drugs yet didn't do the drugs themselves, they are still guilty of providing the substance to others. If I put on a wordly outlook for a moment and envision myself a stripper, in all truth I would know that my actions are causing reactions in others and that I in fact would be causing the married men in my audience to become sexually aroused and therfore "lust" after me, as opposed to their own wives, and the Lord says that they in turn would be commiting adultery in their hearts. I would also feel like I would be in the role of the "Jezebel" whom the scripture says leads men down the path of hell.

When one talks about stripping I assume it means taking all their clothing off.

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I believe it is illegal to have a woman totally uncovered in a strip club. You are thinking of sex shows, the legal status of which I am uncertain.

I fail to see how they would not be held accountable in part for it. If someone dealt in drugs yet didn't do the drugs themselves, they are still guilty of providing the substance to others.

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Its the same reason the gun industry is not held accountable for what thier customers do with thier products. And drugs are a different matter entirely, they are illegal. A young man discovers he is homosexual and talks to his priest about it, his priest says God sees it as sin and evil. The young man goes home and, wracked with guilt, kills himself. Is the priest responsible?

Going to strip club may cause infidelity, true. Then again, just walking around the mall may cause infidelity. And a club is safer in that regard because the man cannot act on the object of the momentary lust. Its different in public, where the man can actually pursue the woman, extensive physical touching is strictly forbidden and ruthlessly enforced in most clubs. It would actually be safer for a man to go to a strip club as far as sin goes because he cant do anything except look. Now one of his co-workers, he can look AND touch, especially if his co-worker likes him back. If I were a woman with a husband, I would rather he went to a strip club than hit on his co-workers

While I can't think of a reason why I should go, the more relevent question for me is probably "why not." The strip club in my town is free, the only obligation is to buy at least one drink.

All my roommates and most of my friends have been to the strip club. I was invited to join them, and I would have gone with them if I wasn't busy at the time (darn karate trainings get in the way of everything...) To me, it's entirely a social event, like going to the pub.

One of my roommates says he goes there to analyze our cultural objectification of women ...

I personally see no harm in it, a lot of couples go in there with their partner and I haven't seen any problem with jealousy. Some women really appreciate the boldness and sensuality of their movements. So I guess you can call that art.

I have went to see fire-dancing before, it's not supposed to be a stripper show, but there is stripping and nudity anyways. Some of the dance is just lewd; some are very graceful and sensual. I was not "turned on" by the show, but I certainly find it amazingly beautiful.

The roommate of the fire-dancer is really proud of her too; after the show, she walks around the crowd telling everybody "she is my roommate, isn't she amazing?"

As long as nobody is being forced to do it; I am fine with it. The only problem I have with sex-related industry is the victimization of the sex-worker. I happen to know two girls who strips or used to strip here in Canada, one saids she was "just being 19 year old and stupid," the other woman (fire dancer) is really proud of her talent and does it because she truly loves performing. I see no victimization or coercion here. So, why not?