stressing

[gracealone]

Well then....... what is she asking you to do to treat the OCD? And more importantly are you doing it?
"What if this isn't OCD?"....... Seriously, Raven, there isn't a single person on this forum who has your same obsessional theme who hasn't in the past or are right at this moment experiencing that same fear. (Can I get a witness?)
Living with feelings of uncertainty in regard to our theme without attending to the questions is key to managing the disorder.
You say you don't want to be agnostic or atheist in one post and then in another post you say you don't even want God or that you think you want to leave God. This is just the common flipping back and forth between the obsessional thoughts coming on and making you feel like a wreck and then compulsively trying to find some kind of solution that will lay it all to rest. "I feel like an agnostic because I have these thoughts.... But I really don't want to be an agnostic! It's freaking me out! HELP!!"
Your experience with OCD is normally abnormal but because it's so intense it feels all too real. It's really very classic.
Again... What is your therapist asking you to do?
Hugs!
Mitzi

She doesn't do exposure treatment only two therapists do where I live neither I can afford. I just want to what if this isnt ocd but I don't want to be agnostic or athiest. How is that reassuring.

 

[Christian-Catholic]

Well then....... what is she asking you to do to treat the OCD? And more importantly are you doing it?
"What if this isn't OCD?"....... Seriously, Raven, there isn't a single person on this forum who has your same obsessional theme who hasn't in the past or are right at this moment experiencing that same fear. (Can I get a witness?)
Living with feelings of uncertainty in regard to our theme without attending to the questions is key to managing the disorder.
You say you don't want to be agnostic or atheist in one post and then in another post you say you don't even want God or that you think you want to leave God. This is just the common flipping back and forth between the obsessional thoughts coming on and making you feel like a wreck and then compulsively trying to find some kind of solution that will lay it all to rest. "I feel like an agnostic because I have these thoughts.... But I really don't want to be an agnostic! It's freaking me out! HELP!!"
Your experience with OCD is normally abnormal but because it's so intense it feels all too real. It's really very classic.
Again... What is your therapist asking you to do?
Hugs!
Mitzi

You got a witness right here Mitzi
Your post again is spot on. The person with the ocd thought cant tell if these thoughts are rational or irrational, but people onthe outside that have been through this can spot it in other but its alot harder to spot in themselves.

You also right in the intensity of the fear response that it produces. It was like this for me when I feared I had HIV (even though im a virgin lol), and it was even more intense when I had the thoughts of God not existing. The difference here is that I love the lord more then I feared HIV and that is why this last particular theme was more intense and stressfull.

Raven, when U said you dont want to be an agnostic or atheist, this is the real you. Your heart (the true part of you that is beyond these ocd thoughts) is Christian.

 

[raven1]

My therapist is teaching me think busy do busy thought stopping right now like alphabet backwards, my names raven I am from new haven, I have a craving type things but if I am stressing about God not being there shouldn't I be like singing Jesus loves me or something so I don't disconnect from God even though part of me is like sweet I dont have a Christian counselor I can exscape from God. See that's what I mean about being agnostic againsts don't know I feel like I don't so I just feel like an agnostic debating both sides.

 

[raven1]

But I dont feel like I love God at all. Everyone one here with this OCD theme seems to still love Jesus and deep down know he is there.

 

[Christian-Catholic]

But I dont feel like I love God at all. Everyone one here with this OCD theme seems to still love Jesus and deep down know he is there.

Raven, this is exactly how the ocd makes a person feel.
Raven, put the ocd aside for a second, and ask yourself if there is any kind of love in history like the Love that Jesus has for us, just from the bible alone?

He was dying on the cross and he asked the father to forgive them, he saved the thief on the cross at the last second.

Again, your using the word FEEL, and this is exactly what the ocd attacks (our feelings). Without that OCD we were accustomed to having the warm fuzze assurances of God during prayer or reading the bible, but the bible itself warns against equating feelings with Faith, and this goes 100 fold for us people with OCD because OCD wreaks havoc on our feelings in very tortuous ways.

Even Jesus went through this during his suffering for us on the cross when he cried "father why has thou forsaken me". Faith is an act of the will and the will is part of the heart. Your heart knows that Jesus's love is a perfect love and that still makes u a Christian.

Remember when you told me that u wanted 100% proof of Gods existence? That is exactly what I go through when im in reassurance mode, when in reality this is not how we normally are in real life.No one is that way Sis.

Faith is an act of the will. Once you make up your mind that you are with the lord nothing can seperate you from him, and you dont even need to ask God to forgive you for this Sis. HE forgave you the minute you started going through this. Right now you cant be sure of anything with OCD, but God knows all . He will never let you slip through his hands.

 

[raven1]

But I don't even what I am going through I could be a agnostic or unbeliever under all this and on my way to hell. I have a pastorvsaying when I doubt I should say God I choose u not my OCD and that doesn't work then a therapist saying count abc's but that isn't keeping me connected to God. Then another part saying I don't want a Chritian counselor because I really truly don't want to be close to God but I don't know y and thats what scares me I may be atheist or agnostic and not know it or turning into one of those. Another part is saying why choose God if u don't know and if you do that pascals wager.

 

[raven1]

Help please

 

[Christian-Catholic]

Hey Sis the key here is the total confusion and fear that you are under, everyone if us here have been through this hell. I know in my heart that you are a Christian but right now you are being hit with the brunt of the OCD attacks on you. If I can see the way OCD is hitting you image how much God, who is all knowing understands your pain and confusion even more than I do.

Sis your counselor is trying to get you to practice these rhymes to get your mind off of focusing on the total chaos and confusion of the OCD thoughts .

Sis, I know it's hard to understand this right now but you have to try to follow what the therapist is saying. You simply can't argue with the thoughts because even if you win, they will just try to find another argument to start with you.

Sis, try this. Ask God to stay with you even with your doubts. Jesus never could say no to us when we ask for his help. Sis , Jesus will not hold this against you as long as you don't give up on him, and he will never let you slip from his loving arms no matter how the thoughts are making you feel

 

[gracealone]

Hi Raven,
It sounds as if she's trying to teach you to use the tool of distraction to treat your OCD. She's trying to get you to shift your focus from attending to the thought to some other thought process or activity. I used to play a game of Tetris when the thoughts were coming on too fast and furious. Singing, "Jesus Loves Me" in response to an OCD thought in order to try and reassure yourself that you won't get disconnected from God would fall into the category of "attending" to the thought. You'd be doing it in order to try and undo the thoughts or in order to try and convince yourself that you still love Jesus. That's a compulsion. Do you see that? The therapist is trying to teach you that when ever you attend to the thoughts you give them validity, you make them bigger and therefore they are always front and center in your brain. She's trying to get you to allow the thoughts to be there but to distract yourself with something else unconnected to the thoughts so that you won't give in to the compulsion to "attend".
Sounds sensible to me.
Mitzi

My therapist is teaching me think busy do busy thought stopping right now like alphabet backwards, my names raven I am from new haven, I have a craving type things but if I am stressing about God not being there shouldn't I be like singing Jesus loves me or something so I don't disconnect from God even though part of me is like sweet I dont have a Christian counselor I can exscape from God. See that's what I mean about being agnostic againsts don't know I feel like I don't so I just feel like an agnostic debating both sides.

 

[gracealone]

Yep, I totally agree!

Hey Sis the key here is the total confusion and fear that you are under, everyone if us here have been through this hell. I know in my heart that you are a Christian but right now you are being hit with the brunt of the OCD attacks on you. If I can see the way OCD is hitting you image how much God, who is all knowing understands your pain and confusion even more than I do.

Sis your counselor is trying to get you to practice these rhymes to get your mind off of focusing on the total chaos and confusion of the OCD thoughts .

Sis, I know it's hard to understand this right now but you have to try to follow what the therapist is saying. You simply can't argue with the thoughts because even if you win, they will just try to find another argument to start with you.

Sis, try this. Ask God to stay with you even with your doubts. Jesus never could say no to us when we ask for his help. Sis , Jesus will not hold this against you as long as you don't give up on him, and he will never let you slip from his loving arms no matter how the thoughts are making you feel

 

[gracealone]

The "help" for you will come only when you lay down your weapons and quit fighting this war. It will come only when you quit looking for the exits. It will come when you just choose to treat this like OCD even though it doesn't feel like OCD.
Praying....
Mitzi

Help please

 

[raven1]

I don't see how that's going to help me. I have real genuine feelings and thoughts that God doesn't exist so praying is a joke etc. I know these are real.

 

[raven1]

So I am so confused. A pastor said I can assume there is a God and look to him and not whether I believe or not and that's faith. Pascals wager is not the same he said. He said it is pretending God is there. How do ok I am going to assume God is there and not ruminate when part doesn't want to believe he is there I have to pretend then right? He said it doesn't matter if my doubt is not caused by OCD and everyone who has a brain doubts in the back if there head all the time if Gods there but I doubt so much. If its mainly not OCD I think I may go to hell.

Him saying look to Jesus and stop ruminating sounds like a OCD technique, not a faith one. How do I just assume he is there especially when a big part of me doesn't want to.

 

[raven1]

I don't love God anymore.

 

[tripletiger1200]

You don't love the fear, the doubt, the person who you feel is condemning you raven. That person isn't God. It's your OCD.

 

[raven1]

Part of me really truly believes he is a joke and isn't there and doesn't want him anymore. A majority of me is like this. This isn't ocd anymore either.

 

[tripletiger1200]

Part of you has convinced yourself that this is what you believe. If you assume that it isn't OCD you'll never get better. If you take the leap of faith and assume it is you will. It's up to you. I'm praying for you, hang in there.

 

[gracealone]

Sound and wise advice. Also the only real choice that we with this disorder have, if we really want to get better.
So thankful for your wise counsel and input Tripletiger.
Keep at it!
Mitzi

Part of you has convinced yourself that this is what you believe. If you assume that it isn't OCD you'll never get better. If you take the leap of faith and assume it is you will. It's up to you. I'm praying for you, hang in there.

 

[raven1]

What does it get me to assume it is and find out when I die and standing in hell it wasn't. Does he forgive non ocd doubt if so how can we know that for certain.

 

[tripletiger1200]

Because if you assume it is you can overcome it. If you don't then you have condemned yourself already. I think it is worth trying if you won't be any worse off for it.