Strange phenomenon - bibliolatry and depression

[salamacum]

have been thinking about a retired man. Irish, reads his bible, knows it better than me, better than most.
Has pretty traditionally biblical views on most things..
Yet he has suffered depression all his life.
When pressed about 'joining in' more with social activities, he graciously says that he 'just needs to read his bible more'
I'm an evangelical and there is something wrong here that I can't put my finger on.
Can you help me?

 

[Tigger45]

I've been known to do the same as the gentleman you mentioned. After my divorce for about seven years all I did was go to work, go to lunch with family members once or twice a month and continually wondered from church to church trying to find a place I felt like I belonged. By the blessing of God, He brought me a GF who gets me and understands my social anxieties. It's one thing to believe in God but it's another thing to believe all the beautiful things He says about us. When a shy introvert personality has too many negative experiences with people they naturally tend to with draw. It's not what God wants us to do put we tend to lean on our own understandings. It's actually a form of giving into our flesh just like if an extrovert will tend to use anger as a system of self defense. All I know is the truth will set us free and I am starting to see glimmers of hope of a recovery and I would pray for the same for the gentleman you mentioned.

 

[salamacum]

Thanks for that..

What I am really after is the bibliolatry thing. He thinks that in reading the bible, digesting it, understanding it, he will be healed of his depression.
I know he's got this pre-disposition - I am not saying his bible-reading is excessive or is the main cause of the depression.
It may be that his understanding of the deeper, higher and wider purposes of God are much better than mine.
But it hasn't alleviated his depression.
And I think his theology of healing is mostly the cause of his continuing depression. "I just need to read/understand the scriptures more to be joyful"
I'm almost at the belief that spiritual sickness needs spiritual healing, emotional healing needs human love, support and acceptance, physical healing needs a doctor. You know - horses for courses, cause and effect.

 

[Peripatetic]

And I think his theology of healing is mostly the cause of his continuing depression.

Depression can have many causes, some of which are physiological (not just in the mind). For many, it is something to manage, not something to cure. We need to be very careful not to assume a wrong-standing with God.

Also, he may be an introvert which may explain some of his lack of social enthusiasm.

Finally, we shouldn't discount culture and genetics. I have some of those same qualities, and so do many of my Irish relatives. It's not fair to stereotype, but some predispositions can be more common for some than for others.

My advice would be to pray form him and treat him with kindness and patience. You can't go wrong there!

 

[salamacum]

Hello Peripatetic,

Took quite an interest in him a short time ago, but then he started to narrow his circle back down to, I suppose, himself and occasional family visits.
I suppose I do care, but I admit mostly, its the phenomenon of someone who 'has the answers' but not the shalom.

 

[Norah63]

A Christian friend was troubled, with what she called depression, and asked of me to pray.
The scripture that came for me was Heb. 10;38
As Christians we live by faith and are not of those who draw back to destruction.
Drawing away or back from relationships in the body of Christ is just a bad habit.
Who do we obey, the flesh or the spirit?
If churches, or bible studies, required more of Christians we would all be in better spiritual shape. The silent row of chairs that represents the church has gone on too long.
On these forums we are all encouraged to hop in and enjoy the living water!

 

[branchofthevine]

I know from having depression (some of it result of head trauma, some not), that the person doesn't always want to get rid of it.

I found a strange luring "love" for depression, and the sort of emotional cycles that came with it. I am free of that, but only because of God's grace, and friends. I'm something of an introvert as well, so big social gatherings are not my thing, but having a few good friends did much more than going to any congregation on Sunday.

I'm thankful to have close Christian friends. One does not need to go to "church" to be the "Church". Many times its the times with friends in Christ that are much better than a sunday service.

 

[Norah63]

Amen on that one branchofthevine. Friends are the best 'church' we can attend a lot of times. Each one may be a member of a different denomination, yet all love to share the joy they have in Jesus Christ. Friends seem to keep it simpler than organized religion does. jmo.
Also for the problem of depression, take charge of our tongue and speak (out loud) what the Word says about us. Taking every thought captive is a real workout for the spirit.

 

[salamacum]

That;'s so true - sometimes our depression is the only thing that is truly 'ours'. We don't really allow others (inc Christ) in, because it's ours - precious like our skin, the thing which has given identity.

 

[Andy S. Wright]

I've been a pastor for over 20 years and suffered with depression through most of it. As has been mentioned, my depression became so much a part of my thought processes that I found myself unwilling to do what was necessary to "deal" with it in a healthy way. Pessimism, skepticism, and a general distrust of everyone around me (especially Christians who wanted to get to know me better) became my permanent psychological barriers. I pitched my tent inside my walls and grew comfortable in my depression to the detriment of my relationships with everyone in my life; including God.

I've got degrees in theology, was a preacher/teacher of the Word, and definitely had what you refer to as "bibliolatry". I was mentored by a hard-shell Baptist-type with strong opinions about the Bible from what version was sanctioned by God to whether it is "scriptural" to mark in the sacred book with highlighters and the like. I carried that philosophy with me throughout my ministry; loving the Word like it was a part of the Trinity. All the while my depression and isolation grew to suicidal levels.

Time and space prevent me from going into great detail about my journey from that pit; in truth, I'm still in the middle of a trip through my own personal wilderness. But what I can tell you is, God is very, very good at revealing himself to people who are searching for Him (Hebrews 11:6) and He never reveals Himself in a way you expect. Quite the opposite, actually. In due time, He has shattered my preconceptions of Him and transferred my worship of the word to a much deeper relationship with its author.

I could go on, believe me, but I think I'll stop here. Good topic, thank you for introducing it for discussion.

ASW

 

[salamacum]

Brilliant,

this is mostly what I have been after for ages.
ALL the scripturally-aware boxes have been ticked and yet... there is depression and lack of shalom.
Those Jews knew that more than reading of the scriptures (and understanding them truly) was necessary for joy.
They had and still have a rhythm of life that recognises and incorporates the physical and social and emotional needs of mankind. Been around a Jewish community at Shabbat and festival time?

We protestants may understand the purpose of God but maybe the Jews will continue to reject the gospel because we don't know 'fullness of life'

 

[Tigger45]

The ironic thing about bibliolatry is I see almost diameticaly opposed groups of people that get drawn into it. First is the wounded introvert trying to limit an infinite God to a finite number of pages in a book. Because social connect for them ranges from uncomfortable to painful. This same book in many different ways instructs us not to be just hearers/readers of the word but also doers of the word. In order to be a doer of the word it is imperative to come intimately involved with people. Both believers and non-believers. Refusing to takes this step causes you to be out of the will of God and therefore blocking the blessing he wants to bestow on you.

The second group of bibliotatry is those who main purpose is to gain facts. Facts in and of themselves are not a bad thing but it can't be the end plan. When these facts are used in a way to lord your knowledge over others it creates a dead theology because it lacks love, grace and humility.

 

[doomsayer2]

I think maybe the key,at least for me,was learning how to change or transfer that depression into humility,and the focus from my own pain to that of others. To be being humble or meek was and is the most important aspect of my faith,and how i could even come to Christ in the first place. So maybe God can and does use depression in us to bring us to that place of seeing others and the world as in no better shape than ourself,even in that pit of despair,which is certainly much better than a pit of sin and degredation,which God can't use at all.
But reading the Bible alone,(emphasis on "alone") probably won't do much good leading you out of self-loathing.

 

[Tigger45]

To me this subject is rectified by two scriptures.

Matthew 22:36-40

New International Version (NIV)

36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

James 1:22

King James Version (KJV)

22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.


We should make time for God's word but then comes a time where we are to put down the bible and get out there and shine the light of our Lord.


A pastor in my past used to say. You can't throw a drowning man a bible. You must first throw him a life preserver and then you can share the Savior of eternal life.

 

[salamacum]

My friend would never be interested in social justice issues because I suspect he sees the scripture as written to reveal the way of individual salvation and to urge the church to sanctify itself.
So, interesting that his son has deeply interested himself in food as a moral and ethical and spiritual issue. He has become a vegan. He offers arguments from World Hunger, Intelligence, Anatomy, Unwanted Extras in our food, Our Humanity, Our compassion and also, significantly the scriptures.

The theology is simple. Genesis 1:29 says
“I give you every seed bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food.”
Whatever follows in the rest of the bible concerning regulations about food does not detract from the fact that God's original ideal for us was to live on a plant based diet.
Our maker's instructions say we were made to run on plant based foods only. This is optimal for our health and allows us to live in harmony with the rest of creation.


The son now says that he has discovered a level of harmony with what he sees as God's creation and His original (pre-permissive) institution for us in the garden of Eden.


The point I am making is not whether the son is right, but the fact that his father has totally missed all of this in the scriptures and yet it is a real contemporary issue that the scriptures have something important to say about. Is the son the "Doer of the Word"? Is that why he is so much more fulfilled?

 

[hedrick]

have been thinking about a retired man. Irish, reads his bible, knows it better than me, better than most.
Has pretty traditionally biblical views on most things..
Yet he has suffered depression all his life.
When pressed about 'joining in' more with social activities, he graciously says that he 'just needs to read his bible more'
I'm an evangelical and there is something wrong here that I can't put my finger on.
Can you help me?

I'm not sure I'd use Bibliolatry for this. But I will say that it's a misunderstanding of the Bible. But that doesn't mean the best way to help him is to talk about the meaning of the Bible. He may need psychological help.

But if you're looking for theology, the problem with it is that it ignores what Jesus claimed his goal was. Jesus claimed his goal was to establish the Kingdom of God. All of his teaching and example suggests that the Kingdom of God is something that's in the world. All of his accounts of judgement say that we'll be judged based on how we treat others.

Jesus also went aside and prayed, and recommend that we do so as well. But he did that in preparation for his ministry, not in place of it.

I'm an introvert myself. So I'm not always very good in practicing this. But at least I understand in principle that the Gospel can't really be practiced in isolation.

 

[Norah63]

Re visiting this thread, many good reply's.
There does seem to be a time in a persons life that they draw aside and devour the scriptures. It is to feed on something other than what this world has offered.
Then like most have said we need to venture out into the lives of our friends and family and community.
If salvation has taken hold, the next step is to learn boldness, to declare our change of life. It could change some relationships. Some friends will leave, new ones will be made.
Faith that is alive will reach out share the good news we have found.
Doubt stops faith in it's tracks.
I hope the friend mentioned in the op will choose well.

 

[now faith]

This is quite interesting.

For most of us the Bible is our refuge,and source for answers.

Just to throw this out,have you considered that with his knowledge of the Word,he has found something that he cannot reconcile?

Possibly a contradiction he can not explain.

If he only uses the Bible as reference, and that would depend on translation,he may be at a standstill.

Possibly if you could find out the subject,by casual conversation, you may be able to go to a lexicon or study Bible and ask his advice by telling him what the Greek says.
This may give him the key he needs.

God Bless

 

[Purge187]

I know from having depression (some of it result of head trauma, some not), that the person doesn't always want to get rid of it.

I found a strange luring "love" for depression, and the sort of emotional cycles that came with it. I am free of that, but only because of God's grace, and friends. I'm something of an introvert as well, so big social gatherings are not my thing, but having a few good friends did much more than going to any congregation on Sunday.

I'm thankful to have close Christian friends. One does not need to go to "church" to be the "Church". Many times its the times with friends in Christ that are much better than a sunday service.

This spoke to me; we oftentimes grow accustomed to negativity, the way the Israelites did in the desert.

I believe God may be moving me to seek more companionship, be it a life-mate or just friends. Pray that I'll find.

 

[The Wildcat]

have been thinking about a retired man. Irish, reads his bible, knows it better than me, better than most.
Has pretty traditionally biblical views on most things..
Yet he has suffered depression all his life.
When pressed about 'joining in' more with social activities, he graciously says that he 'just needs to read his bible more'
I'm an evangelical and there is something wrong here that I can't put my finger on.
Can you help me?

From where I sit, Christianity is supposed to be more holistic than just sitting in your favorite recliner and reading your bible. IMO, people who do that are missing the point. I've heard something along the lines of, "it's possible to know all sorts of scriptures and Greek and Hebrew and not be transformed by the love of God". I'll call that a paraphrase because it's been a long time since I originally heard it, but I think it still has a profound point nonetheless.