Stopping Abortion

[tulc]

I can't open that link in the UK but Catholics for example don't see vasectomies as acceptable.

Good thing the laws in the United States aren't determined by Catholic Church doctrine, huh?

They have a whacky alternative called keeping it in your pants.

Nice...I'm now sort of curious how that's worked out for them? Because from what I'm seeing it's still only women's bodies that people are trying to control and (as has been pointed out) it's not women who can get someone pregnant every night of the week.
tulc(just curious)

 

[paul1149]

can you provide evidence for this little fact?

I hope you appreciate this, it wasn't easy to come by! I had to do a search for 'birth control failure rates', and then click on the second hit!



The failure rates are abysmal, because they are yearly and accumulative over the years. The condom is barely better than withdrawal. Five years on the condom and you are almost certain to have a pregnancy, and the younger you are the more chance you won't use it correctly. Five years on the vaunted Pill and you run a 50% chance of pregnancy, not to mention what the Pill does to a developing girl's body. How many young people know these things?

 

[pescador]

Change a few words there, and the same argument could be made about murdering an adult...or a dozen other terrible crimes.

So what is the answer? Why is decriminalizing most of the capital crimes not part of your analysis??

There is absolutely NO COMPARISON between murdering an adult and a medical procedure to terminate a pregnancy in which the fetus won't survive and the mother might die. Killing the mother is murdering an innocent adult and depriving her family of a spouse and parent.

If I were you I would drop to my knees and beg for forgiveness.

 

[Dansiph]

Good thing the laws in the United States aren't determined by Catholic Church doctrine, huh?

Nice...I'm now sort of curious how that's worked out for them? Because from what I'm seeing it's still only women's bodies that people are trying to control and (as has been pointed out) it's not women who can get someone pregnant every night of the week.
tulc(just curious)

No, not huh.

Worked out for who? It works out pretty well to those who do it. It works out usually badly to those who don't. This isn't about control beyond suggesting they control themselves.

 

[Sparagmos]

A major cause of abortions. Their failure rate is so high that any faith placed in them is tenuous at best. A little fact that is withheld from our youth.

Simply not true. When used correctly they are highly effective and prevent a ton of abortions. The reason I got pregnant as a young adult was that I was taught condoms were ineffective so I saw no point in using one.

 

[Sparagmos]

How about they take some responsiblity and don't have sex? Stop promoting murder and direct your anger at the inconsiderate actions of the people having sex.

Because that has been attempted for centuries and FAILED. Our bodies were designed with a strong drive for sex and intimacy. That drive has proven too powerful for a majority of humans to resist, especially in the early 20’s.

 

[Brightmoon]

Oh my. So now the argument is that the life of the child is not as important as enduring the discomfort that any pregnancy may bring!!!!! When do we get to "It's all right to shoot that guy who took your parking place; being a driver in traffic is hard on your nerves!"

So far, the argument in favor of abortion is either that the child is not a child or else that the child causes mom some discomfort, so away with the kid. No wonder that some advocates of easy abortion also favor infanticide.



My neighbor is getting on my nerves. Is it okay to burn him out, then??

If this sounds silly, imagine how killing a child for the sake of not being inconvenienced, etc. sounds...especially in a day and age when almost any child can be placed for adoption if the mother feels stressed, cannot afford it, or otherwise doesn't want to raise her child.

who’s talking about minor discomfort. After all every one knows about morning sickness .

 

[bekkilyn]

There is no law that can stop it. People will go to states or countries that allow it.
To those can not afford that will go to back alley butchers like they used to.

Instead lets teach birth control, the pill, condoms. My mom and dad told there kids the facts of life but they did not act foolishly and think there teenage children were gonna listen to them or the pastor. So they also taught birth control. They made sure the kids had all the tools to protect themselves.

I found out last night that my friends daughter is giving birth in two weeks and they found out the the child is severally mentally handicapped a good portion of his brain did not form, and has spina biffida. That child is going to have a very short life of pure misery and agony. If they had know in time her daughter would had an abortion.

You pro lifers do not want an abortion for medical reasons, fine how many of you are going to pay for the care of such of child. If your not gonna step up...shut it!

You do not want a rape victim to have an abortion so how many of you are going to care of here medical bills and provide counseling and take that child in. If your not gonna step up...shut it!

Stopping abortion works with education, hormone filled teenagers ignore there pastors and parents all the time, they have been the beginning of time. Educate your kids...don't just give them bible because many teenagers do not pay attention. They think with there hormones'.

And understand there legitimist reasons for one. I do not know any woman who has actually had abortion for willy nilly reason.

Being reasonable doesn't work with the big government, anti-choice crowd because their goal isn't actually to stop and/or reduce abortions. It's been shown time and time again that the rate of abortions increase in countries with more restrictions, so if they truly wanted to prevent as many abortions as possible, they would focus not on making it illegal, but on providing the best possible environment for women and families to raise children, and also good quality sex education that includes birth control options.

No, their primary goal is to punish women and exercise control over them. It's very anti-life for the most part since they only really care about life that begins with conception and ends at birth. Then too bad, so sad, you're on your own.

 

[tulc]

No, not huh.

As an Anabaptist, I can assure you, I definitely think so.

Worked out for who? It works out pretty well to those who do it. It works out usually badly to those who don't.

Who it works out well for, apparently, are the people who can't get pregnant as opposed to the people who can. Imagine that.

This isn't about control beyond suggesting they control themselves.

if that was true, there wouldn't be any debate about a woman being able to chose what to do with her own body.
tulc(otherwise an organization controlled exclusively by men wouldn't be so quick to jump in and insist women are the ones who's choices must be controlled at all times)

 

[Dansiph]

As an Anabaptist, I can assure you, I definitely think so.


Who it works out well for, apparently, are the people who can't get pregnant as opposed to the people who can. Imagine that.



if that was true, there wouldn't be any debate about a woman being able to chose what to do with her own body.
tulc(otherwise an organization controlled exclusively by men wouldn't be so quick to jump in and insist women are the ones who's choices must be controlled at all times)

I'm telling men and women to control themselves.

 

[tulc]

I'm telling men and women to control themselves.

But it's hardly even handed if the only ones who have any consequences are the women. And it's hardly even handed if the only people who's bodies are being regulated by the government are, again, just the women.
tulc(just a thought)

 

[Dansiph]

But it's hardly even handed if the only ones who have any consequences are the women. And it's hardly even handed if the only people who's bodies are being regulated by the government are, again, just the women.
tulc(just a thought)

But you're relying on the failure to control themselves. I'm suggesting they control themsleves and actually expecting them to do so. Thus no pregnancy.

 

[Sparagmos]

But you're relying on the failure to control themselves. I'm suggesting they control themsleves and actually expecting them to do so. Thus no pregnancy.

Why would you keep doing the same thing that hasn’t worked for centuries and expect a different result? That’s...insane. Why not look at the places where the abortion rate is the lowest and do what they do? Also, a large portion of abortions occur within marriage. Are you going to preach abstinence to married people?

 

[Dansiph]

Why would you keep doing the same thing that hasn’t worked for centuries and expect a different result? That’s...insane. Why not look at the places where the abortion rate is the lowest and do what they do? Also, a large portion of abortions occur within marriage. Are you going to preach abstinence to married people?

That defintion of insanity is not valid. Also in the West we don't promote waiting until marriage for sex at all. Having an abortion is wrong, whether you're married or not. It's not my fault some people are insane and kill children. Also unless you're willing to produce a child then yes I am promoting abstinence to married people.

 

[tulc]

That defintion of insanity is not valid. (snip)

Can you point to why it should be invalid? Well...other than showing your argument that "people should all just keep it in their pants!" has never worked in all of history of course?
tulc(is just curious)

 

[Dansiph]

Can you point to why it should be invalid? Well...other than showing your argument that "people should all just keep it in their pants!" has never worked in all of history of course?
tulc(is just curious)

It's working for me and because that is not the definition of insanity. I'm not continuing.

 

[parousia70]

That defintion of insanity is not valid.

Actually, its become the classic definition:

Urban Dictionary
1. insanity
Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
Working a job and expecting to get rich is insanity.
by 513 Sep 3, 2003
2. insanity
doing something over and over expecting different results
-Albert Einstein
i keep hitting this hamster… but it wont make money, this is insanity!
by Sorry, im suburban, white Jun 11, 2005
3. insanity
Trying to solve problems,
Expecting different results,
Using the exact same methods…
Insanity, Where our society is headed if we don’t learn to get along.
by theewizard@myway.com Aug 26, 2006

Having an abortion is wrong, whether you're married or not. It's not my fault some people are insane and kill children. Also unless you're willing to produce a child then yes I am promoting abstinence to married people.

Should I be able to force you, by law, to give me one of your Kidneys if I need a Kidney or I'll die, and you're a match?

 

[Tiang]

It's a simple position to have, and I don't see why people fail to come to terms with it.

If you and your partner are not willing to accept the small possibility that a life will result that deserves to be protected and cherished.. then don't have sex.

It's not about religion even. It's simple human decency.

The sexual revolution has broken society. No one has a 'right to sex' that denies the right of a child to be safe in its own mother's womb.

 

[Online.Gamer.79]

Change a few words there, and the same argument could be made about murdering an adult...or a dozen other terrible crimes.

So what is the answer? Why is decriminalizing most of the capital crimes not part of your analysis??

Albion there is no acknowledgment of the unborn being human in the bible...quite the reverse. You see gods laws are clear...murder is punished by death...if you cause a woman to misarrange you are fined...that means the unborn child was not considered a human. The idiocy is you guys actually think a pregnant woman should try to carry to term a child that is not going to survive....or they would die trying to carry to term. It is why if you have not noticed more and more people are starting to ignore conservatives Christians...mainly because you guys pick choice scripture to justify, racism, bigotry, hate.

You know I am not a Conservative Christian....I am believer in Jesus Christ and God...I believe no one has the right to force there religious or moral beliefs on another....its the biggest reason that Islam along with Christianity are the two most despised religions on the planet.

 

[Online.Gamer.79]

How about they take some responsibility and don't have sex? Stop promoting murder and direct your anger at the inconsiderate actions of the people having sex.

Okay teenagers are stupid...there minds are going 1000 mph...hormones are pushing the biological. need to mate. I'm 41 I am not ruled by my hormones anymore but when I was teenager I sure was and I also used condoms. And I am not condoning murder...I am saying tell your little brats about condoms and the pill...explain that it is not 100% more like 99%...explain STDs and Pregnancy and hope your kids listens...but knowing teenagers make stupid decisions...make sure there armed with all the tools...pregnancy is not the biggest risk...HIV is...its a lethal disease...you know over a million people die each year from it...I have lost people I love to that disease...people like you...condescending, self-righteous, and judgmental is what drives people away from Christ.