Stonehenge mystery solved: Scientists work out where huge stones came from

[Radagast]

We know Japheth was the progenitor of the Europeans, while Shem was the progenitor of the Native Americans

We "know" nothing of the sort. That's just 100% made up.

 

[AV1611VET]

That's just 100% made up.

By whom?

 

[Herman Hedning]

Remember Noah's ark? what kept it intact?

Imagination?

 

[AV1611VET]

Imagination?

Are you trying to imagine the story?

 

[SelfSim]

That would be difficult to ascertain, since the Bible doesn't give a yearly census.

Yet somehow you've figured out how old the Earth is from it .. C'mon now .. we're on the trail of something big here .. I'm gonna have ta press that scholarly mind of yours for a little more thinking on this .. (please?)

We know Japheth was the progenitor of the Europeans, while Shem was the progenitor of the Native Americans; and since both Japheth and Shem knew "the concept of Heaven," their children would also.

Well that's a little worrisome because 'Europe' wasn't as clearly distinguished before 3500BC as it is now. The land bridge came and went over the period of the Ice Age. The bridge firstly allowed these hunter-gatherer stone-agers to get to the land mass later called 'Britain', over the Ice, and then when the Ice melted, the English Channel formed and virtually isolated them from the rest of the European (continent).

The Native Americans came waayyy after all this time though, so this 'Japheth' is our more likely suspect .. So we need an approximate date for him!

 

[SelfSim]

See here for the picture of where the geological evidence leads us as to what was going on, (and when), between the European mainland and Britain:

 

[AV1611VET]

Yet somehow you've figured out how old the Earth is from it ..

Negative.

I say the earth is as old as God willed it to be, but that it has only been in existence since 4004 BC.

If the earth is ... say ... 3 billion years old, it is 3 billion years old because God created it 3 billion years old.

It did not "grow" that old, it came into existence that old.

Let's say Adam was created as a 30-year-old man.

People think Adam was 930 years old when he died; but that's not what the Bible says.

Genesis 5:5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.

Thus Adam died at the age of 960.

The Bible does not talk like that about anyone else.

Genesis 5:8 And all the days of Seth were nine hundred and twelve years: and he died.

There's a difference between "all the days that Adam lived" and "all the days of [insert name here] were ..."

 

[AV1611VET]

Well that's a little worrisome because 'Europe' wasn't as clearly distinguished before 3500BC as it is now. The land bridge came and went over the period of the Ice Age.
...
The Native Americans came waayyy after all this time though, so this 'Japheth' is our more likely suspect .. So we need an approximate date for him!

Earth at the time was one giant landmass (Pangaea) with one giant ocean (Panthalassa).

People could walk from ... say ... New Jersey to Australia and back without ever seeing water.

 

[AV1611VET]

See here for the picture of where the geological evidence leads us as to what was going on,

Your map is flawed. It shows continents. Something that didn't exist at the time.

 

[SelfSim]

Negative.

I say the earth is as old as God willed it to be, but that it has only been in existence since 4004 BC.
...
The Bible does not talk like that about anyone else.
...
There's a difference between "all the days that Adam lived" and "all the days of [insert name here] were ..."

Ok ..

Then when did this 'Japheth' dude appear on the scene (regardless of how old he was)?

 

[AV1611VET]

Ok ..

Then when did this 'Japheth' dude appear on the scene (regardless of how old he was)?

Japheth was one of Noah's sons who helped build the Ark.

Shem, Ham, and Japheth

 

[AV1611VET]

Genesis 10:21 Unto Shem also, the father of all the children of Eber, the brother of Japheth the elder, even to him were children born.
22 The children of Shem; Elam, and Asshur, and Arphaxad, and Lud, and Aram.
23 And the children of Aram; Uz, and Hul, and Gether, and Mash.
24 And Arphaxad begat Salah; and Salah begat Eber.
25 And unto Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg; for in his days was the earth divided; and his brother's name was Joktan.

The Yucatan Peninsula is named after Joktan.

Yucatan = Joktan

 

[SelfSim]

Earth at the time was one giant landmass (Pangaea) with one giant ocean (Panthalassa).

People could walk from ... say ... New Jersey to Australia and back without ever seeing water.

Wrong timeframe though .. The topic is about the Stonehenge era and I've stretched it a bit backwards to 3500BC. The Ice Age coverings and the eventual formation of the English Channel are important because that's how hominids (back to Neanderthals) got into the British landmass from the Eurpopean landmass (ie: they walked).. and then became isolated there.

The isolation was important because the people 'trapped in' were innovators. They progressed from hunter-gatherers to agrarians, formed communities and developed religions, by starting with the evidenced relationships between the seasons and the food sources they were nuturiing. The earthly bodies of their early 'astronomer' leaders, (who clearly studied the movement of the 'heavens' and built their monuments accordingly), were sent back to the 'heavens' by their communities when they died - this is why the notion of gods and their locations in 'the skies above' .. ie: in 'the heavens', first appears in our western religions.

 

[SelfSim]

Japheth was one of Noah's sons who helped build the Ark.

Shem, Ham, and Japheth

Ok .. thanks.

One of the reasons I'm pressing you a bit on this one, is because there was lots of flooding going on when the ice retreated from that part of the then known world.
It doesn't take much to associate flooding (in their ancestor's distant past) with the co-incidence of the appearance of monuments and rituals sending their revered community members in a historically different direction from being buried in the ground ..to being cremated and sending them upwards .. towards 'the heavens'?

 

[SelfSim]

Please note: I'm not attacking religious beliefs here (please refrain from making it seem that way).

Rather, what I'm doing is tracing the development of human thinking about religions .. people and God in Heaven .. which is the in-common area which links both religion and everything else humans ever conceived. Surely one cannot reasonably argue religious beliefs whilst not acknowledging that they are a human notion? (After all, scientists cannot argue their way out of science also being a very human notion).

 

[AV1611VET]

...

 

[AV1611VET]

Please note: I'm not attacking religious beliefs here (please refrain from making it seem that way).

Rather, what I'm doing is tracing the development of human thinking about religions .. people and God in Heaven .. which is the in-common area which links both religion and everything else humans ever conceived. Surely one cannot reasonably argue religious beliefs whilst not acknowledging that they are a human notion? (After all, scientists cannot argue their way out of science also being a very human notion).

Am I wasting my time in this thread?

The Bible isn't a "book of notions," rather It is, in fact, the word of God.

And religion can take people straight to Hell.

 

[SelfSim]

... The Bible isn't a "book of notions," rather It is, in fact, the word of God.

Huh?
Words are chosen specifically to convey notions, no?

Otherwise: the Bible would just convey gibberish ..(?)

 

[SelfSim]

More recent news from Stonehenge environs (dated June 23, 2020):

Immense Neolithic Ring Discovered Near Stonehenge

The mystery near and around Stonehenge keeps growing.

The latest revelation is the discovery of a ring of at least 20 prehistoric shafts about 2 miles from the famous Neolithic site of immense upright stones, according to an announcement from the University of Bradford.

Archaeologists say the "astonishing" shafts in Durrington Walls date back to 2500 B.C. and form a circle more than 2 kilometers (1.2 miles) in diameter. Each one measures up to 10 meters (33 feet) in diameter and 5 meters (16 feet) deep.

Researchers say there may have been more than 30 of the shafts at one time.
...
discovery of such a massive prehistoric structure which, currently, is significantly larger than any comparative prehistoric monument that we know of in Britain

And so, the Neolithic plot thickens!

 

[SelfSim]

Rather, what I'm doing is tracing the development of human thinking about religions .. people and God in Heaven .. which is the in-common area which links both religion and everything else humans ever conceived. Surely one cannot reasonably argue religious beliefs whilst not acknowledging that they are a human notion? (After all, scientists cannot argue their way out of science also being a very human notion).

The site containing the burnt remnants of human cremations is the neolithic passage grave at Knowth in Ireland:

The large mound has been estimated to date from c. 3200 BC.

Cremation evidence:

The eastern passage arrives at a cruciform chamber, not unlike that found at Newgrange, which contains three recesses and basin stones into which the cremated remains of the dead were placed.

Evidence of unique stone carved artwork:

The right-hand recess is larger and more elaborately decorated with megalithic art than the others
..
Many of the motifs are typical: spirals, lozenges and serpentiform. However, the megalithic art at Knowth contains a wide variety of images, such as crescent shapes ..

Evidence of astronomical significance:

.. and the oldest known illustration of the moon in history.