Still struggling.

[Barry Desborough]

So you believe in God? That's the ONLY alternative to not believing in God.
And if you don't believe in God, then you believe nothing created the universe.
There's no other thing to believe.

You cannot be this stupid, I refuse to believe it.

Enough of the insults. Why do you people get so worked up? We're only talking about unevidenced speculations.

I've told you, twice before now, and this is the third time, that I don't do "belief". Why is this so hard for you to take in?

 

[Wolfe]

Totally believable...

Which of those words is giving you particular difficulty

Thank you for confirming that your mind is closed. Hermetically sealed against anything that does not conform to your randomly acquired worldview.

I smell a hypocrite...

Why do you people get so worked up?

Rich coming from an atheist.

If you don't believe anything, then you don't do any research whatsoever.
To have no evidence that the world came from nothing, which is what you would adhere to if you didn't believe in God, if you didn't adhere to this, it'd be complete apathy to the subject, and you're in the position to talk.
This is, in and of itself, a belief, as defined by the dictionary trust, faith, or confidence in someone or something.
You've put your trust, faith, and confidence in atheism, therefor, you believe in atheism.
If you had not put your trust, faith, and confidence in atheism, then why adhere to it?
Why not call your self unsure, or agnostic, if you have no trust in atheism?
Do you see the problem with your statement? Probably not, you're an atheist after all.

So, I ask you, do you not know the definition of belief?

 

[rockytopva]

Enough of the insults. Why do you people get so worked up? We're only talking about unevidenced speculations.

I've told you, twice before now, and this is the third time, that I don't do "belief". Why is this so hard for you to take in?

If E = mc2 then we can divide and conclude that...

Mass (m) = Energy (E/c2)

And there are three varieties...

Natural E/c2 - All mass is basically cooled plasma
Mental E/c2 - Mentally, A mathematical formula, but this has chemical and spiritual properties as well.
Spiritual E/c2 - E (motivation, warmth, love) / c2 (faith, hope, charity, joy)

In the world of chemistry likes blend in with likes. If you would befriend the creator you must practice faith, hope, charity, motivation, warmth, love, and joy. As you put these to work, in the name of Jesus, then the spiritual things begin to take to life and to come alive. Without the spiritual E/c2 you will never come to faith in God. And a path of sainthood... Using Beethoven this time...

 

[rockytopva]

I am white and of Scottish descent. In the 1990's our factory hired several VT football players who were all black and of Word of Faith doctrine. In all my years of knowing these guys I have never once heard the first negative word out of their mouth, everything they spoke was faith. They called me, "McCwowt" and would say things like...

"Do you know what over comes fear McCwowt? Action! Action overcomes fear"

"I'm getting out of here McCwowt" And then lay out some plan of escape. They would also come to me saying...

"What are you believing God for McCwowt?" And expect some great plan that would bring joy to their hearts.

They were also very schooled in the Word of Faith. If you had any pains at all they would offer to pray for you right then and there. They also broke me of my negative talk and for that I am eternally grateful. There is another thing they use to say...

"Good fellowship makes you strong."

If E = mc2 then we can divide and conclude that...

Mass (m) = Energy (E/c2)

And there are three varieties...

Natural E/c2 - All mass is basically cooled plasma
Mental E/c2 - Mentally, A mathematical formula, but this has chemical and spiritual properties as well.
Spiritual E/c2 - E (motivation, warmth, love) / c2 (faith, hope, charity, joy)

It is important to practice spirituality, in hopes, by some alchemy of spirit, that it becomes genuine. I would also say that faith and hope are free gifts available to all. You can sit down and imagine free of charge.

Faith in Christ + Spiritual E/c2 = A victorious Christian life that will bring God glory.

 

[Barry Desborough]

I smell a hypocrite...

Rich coming from an atheist.

If you don't believe anything, then you don't do any research whatsoever.
To have no evidence that the world came from nothing, which is what you would adhere to if you didn't believe in God, if you didn't adhere to this, it'd be complete apathy to the subject, and you're in the position to talk.
This is, in and of itself, a belief, as defined by the dictionary trust, faith, or confidence in someone or something.
You've put your trust, faith, and confidence in atheism, therefor, you believe in atheism.
If you had not put your trust, faith, and confidence in atheism, then why adhere to it?
Why not call your self unsure, or agnostic, if you have no trust in atheism?
Do you see the problem with your statement? Probably not, you're an atheist after all.

So, I ask you, do you not know the definition of belief?

Still spouting your strawman garbage. Unless you are willing to actually talk with me, and engage with me to find out what each of us actually thinks and why, you are wasting both your time and mine. If you want to post again, ask me a simple, honest question indicating that you are genuinely interested in my answer in order to understand me. Otherwise, don't bother.

 

[Barry Desborough]

I am white and of Scottish descent. In the 1990's our factory hired several VT football players who were all black and of Word of Faith doctrine. In all my years of knowing these guys I have never once heard the first negative word out of their mouth, everything they spoke was faith. They called me, "McCwowt" and would say things like...

"Do you know what over comes fear McCwowt? Action! Action overcomes fear"

"I'm getting out of here McCwowt" And then lay out some plan of escape. They would also come to me saying...

"What are you believing God for McCwowt?" And expect some great plan that would bring joy to their hearts.

They were also very schooled in the Word of Faith. If you had any pains at all they would offer to pray for you right then and there. They also broke me of my negative talk and for that I am eternally grateful. There is another thing they use to say...

"Good fellowship makes you strong."

If E = mc2 then we can divide and conclude that...

Mass (m) = Energy (E/c2)

And there are three varieties...

Natural E/c2 - All mass is basically cooled plasma
Mental E/c2 - Mentally, A mathematical formula, but this has chemical and spiritual properties as well.
Spiritual E/c2 - E (motivation, warmth, love) / c2 (faith, hope, charity, joy)

It is important to practice spirituality, in hopes, by some alchemy of spirit, that it becomes genuine. I would also say that faith and hope are free gifts available to all. You can sit down and imagine free of charge.

Faith in Christ + Spiritual E/c2 = A victorious Christian life that will bring God glory.

Who left the gates unlocked?

 

[Wolfe]

Still spouting your strawman garbage. Unless you are willing to actually talk with me, and engage with me to find out what each of us actually thinks and why, you are wasting both your time and mine. If you want to post again, ask me a simple, honest question indicating that you are generally interested in my answer in order to understand me. Otherwise, don't bother.

Okay, how do you, Barry, specially differ from EVERY OTHER atheist, that ever lived.
What does your brand of atheism mean to you?

(complete disregarding the definition of belief by the way)

 

[Barry Desborough]

Okay, how do you, Barry, specially differ from EVERY OTHER atheist, that ever lived.
What does your brand of atheism mean to you?

(complete disregarding the definition of belief by the way)

Leading question. Try again. Just ask me to explain what I think and why. But you may have to wait for it. It's siesta time.

 

[Wolfe]

Leading question. Try again. Just ask me to explain what I think and why. But you may have to wait for it. It's siesta time.

What do you require me to ask you?
You say waste of time, this is a waste of time.

But you have piqued my interest, you're the typical atheist, no doubt, but you seem to completely deny the secular beginning, or rather, deny that it is a belief.
So tell me Paul, why is this? Why do you think the way you do? Let me inside your head, release your riddle to me.

 

[rockytopva]

Who left the gates unlocked?

Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away. - James 4:14

You life sir is not long. One day you will take a siesta and awake in either heaven or hell. The stay will be eternal.

 

[Wolfe]

You life sir is not long. One day you will take a siesta and awake in either heaven or hell. The stay will be eternal.

If he, or anyone cared, do you think he'd be an atheist?

 

[Barry Desborough]

What do you require me to ask you?
You say waste of time, this is a waste of time.

But you have piqued my interest, you're the typical atheist, no doubt, but you seem to completely deny the secular beginning, or rather, deny that it is a belief.
So tell me Paul, why is this? Why do you think the way you do? Let me inside your head, release your riddle to me.

Paul? I'm Barry.

The evidence (cosmological redshift and the cosmic background radiation) shows us that the universe expanded from an extremely compact, dense beginning. How and why it happened, I don't know. Although I'm pretty highly educated in abstract mathematics (I'm a retired mathematics teacher), any answer is way above my pay-grade, and I expect it is above yours too. You need to ask people like Steven Hawking who are more at home with highly advanced mathematics, theoretical physics and cosmology, though I expect you would need to attain similar heights of intellectual achievement to even understand what they have to say. Maybe it is something that we cannot really understand, as Dawkins explains:-

Modern physics teaches us that there is more to truth than meets the eye, or more than meets the all-too-limited human mind, evolved as it was to cope with medium-size objects moving at medium speeds through medium distances in Africa. In the face of these profound and sublime mysteries, the low-grade intellectual poodling of pseudophilosophical poseurs seems unworthy of adult attention.

Veritas: What is True?

It is perfectly acceptable to say, "I don't know", and, IMO, more honest. Believe it was your little Hebrew tribe's God if you like, but don't expect me to believe it. I have made it an intellectual exercise to dispense entirely with the notion of "belief", and I find that it is completely unnecessary.

 

[cuja1]

Enough of the insults. Why do you people get so worked up? We're only talking about unevidenced speculations.

I've told you, twice before now, and this is the third time, that I don't do "belief". Why is this so hard for you to take in?

I admire your patience and charity for not giving into the insults and shouting them back. I wish more Christians were thus way.

 

[cuja1]

Paul? I'm Barry.

The evidence (cosmological redshift and the cosmic background radiation) shows us that the universe expanded from an extremely compact, dense beginning. How and why it happened, I don't know. Although I'm pretty highly educated in abstract mathematics (I'm a retired mathematics teacher), any answer is way above my pay-grade, and I expect it is above yours too. You need to ask people like Steven Hawking who are more at home with highly advanced mathematics, theoretical physics and cosmology, though I expect you would need to attain similar heights of intellectual achievement to even understand what they have to say. Maybe it is something that we cannot really understand, as Dawkins explains:-

Veritas: What is True?

It is perfectly acceptable to say, "I don't know", and, IMO, more honest. Believe it was your little Hebrew tribe's God if you like, but don't expect me to believe it. I have made it an intellectual exercise to dispense entirely with the notion of "belief", and I find that it is completely unnecessary.

Paul? I'm Barry.

The evidence (cosmological redshift and the cosmic background radiation) shows us that the universe expanded from an extremely compact, dense beginning. How and why it happened, I don't know. Although I'm pretty highly educated in abstract mathematics (I'm a retired mathematics teacher), any answer is way above my pay-grade, and I expect it is above yours too. You need to ask people like Steven Hawking who are more at home with highly advanced mathematics, theoretical physics and cosmology, though I expect you would need to attain similar heights of intellectual achievement to even understand what they have to say. Maybe it is something that we cannot really understand, as Dawkins explains:-

Veritas: What is True?

It is perfectly acceptable to say, "I don't know", and, IMO, more honest. Believe it was your little Hebrew tribe's God if you like, but don't expect me to believe it. I have made it an intellectual exercise to dispense entirely with the notion of "belief", and I find that it is completely unnecessary.

So would it be correct to say that you believe the universe came of being somehow but you just don't know what that somehow is? Maybe someday science will figure it out and maybe it won't, but until then you are perfectly at peace waiting for the answer?

 

[chriscomplex]

If someone wants to debunk the theory of evolution, then they must have an equally valid theory. If Christians use the book of Genesis to dispute the claims of evolution then they must do it with the same veracity as science. They shouldn't say "God said it, that settles it" That is no way to prove a concept.

For now Christians have no scientific data to validate the accounts of creation. But if creation could be proven in the same arena as the departments that study evolution, then the "Theory of creation" would be studied in text books just like Origens of species. It would no longer be something you just believe in.

 

[1watchman]

I find it quite strange that an Atheist would come on to a Christian forum and try to dissuade the believers, other than it must be an agent of the enemy of our eternal souls. If you are not interested in Christianity, Barry, why not just go to an Atheist site to enjoy fellowship?
I am much older than you, friend, and have walked with God for much understanding and blessings with absolutely no regrets since a young man.

 

[chriscomplex]

I find it quite strange that an Atheist would come on to a Christian forum and try to dissuade the believers, other than it must be an agent of the enemy of our eternal souls. If you are not interested in Christianity, Barry, why not just go to an Atheist site to enjoy fellowship?
I am much older than you, friend, and have walked with God for much understanding and blessings with absolutely no regrets since a young man.

Maybe because he doesn't like being insulated by his own group.

 

[Barry Desborough]

I find it quite strange that an Atheist would come on to a Christian forum and try to dissuade the believers, other than it must be an agent of the enemy of our eternal souls. If you are not interested in Christianity, Barry, why not just go to an Atheist site to enjoy fellowship?
I am much older than you, friend, and have walked with God for much understanding and blessings with absolutely no regrets since a young man.

What makes you think I am trying to "dissuade believers"?

 

[cuja1]

What makes you think I am trying to "dissuade believers"?

Do sincerely desire to believe Christianity if it indeed is true (probably more of a rhetorical question but I'll ask any way)

 

[Barry Desborough]

Do sincerely desire to believe Christianity if it indeed is true (probably more of a rhetorical question but I'll ask any way)

I'm not interested in Christianity, nor whether anyone else believes it or not. My interest is in defending science. I share that interest in common with very many theists and atheists.