Stigmata

[CopticGirl]

Is the belief in Stigmata a purely Catholic thing? Or do other churches, or any of the Oriental Orthodx Churches believe it is valid?

God Bless.

 

[Xpycoctomos]

It's not really found at all in the East (EO). Usually they are not outward symbols that change the actual body but have more to do with the uncreated light (often only certain people can see it... children, mentally disabled and the very pious), but this is not always the case, sometimes "normal" people see it. Also there is floating, being present in more than one place and so on.

How about in the OO?

 

[CopticGirl]

I'm not sure what you mean by "uncreated light" and "floating".

God Bless

 

[Monica child of God 1]

I'm not sure what you mean by "uncreated light" and "floating".

The uncreated light is the same light that shone on Mt. Tabor at the transfiguration. Matthew 17:2 "There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light."

Many saints are said to be surrounded by light, hence the halos in icons. Another notable "sign" of holiness in the lives of saints in he EOC is the smell of myrhh or roses, before or after death. Here is an excerpt from a conversation between St. Seraphim of Sarov and Nicholas Motovilov:

"Nevertheless," I replied, "I do not understand how I can be certain that I am in the Spirit of God. How can I discern for myself His true manifestation in me?"

Father Seraphim replied: "I have already told you, your Godliness, that it is very simple and I have related in detail how people come to be in the Spirit of God and how we can recognize His presence in us. So what do you want, my son?"

"I want to understand it well," I said.

Then Father Seraphim took me very firmly by the shoulders and said: "We are both in the Spirit of God now, my son. Why don't you look at me?"

I replied: "I cannot look, Father, because your eyes are flashing like lightning. Your face has become brighter than the sun, and my eyes ache with pain."

Father Seraphim said: "Don't be alarmed, your Godliness! Now you yourself have become as bright as I am. You are now in the fullness of the Spirit of God yourself; otherwise you would not be able to see me as I am."

Then, bending his head towards me, he whispered softly in my ear: "Thank the Lord God for His unutterable mercy to us! You saw that I did not even cross myself; and only in my heart I prayed mentally to the Lord God and said within myself: 'Lord, grant him to see clearly with his bodily eyes that descent of Thy Spirit which Thou grantest to Thy servants when Thou art pleased to appear in the light of Thy magnificent glory.' And you see, my son, the Lord instantly fulfilled the humble prayer of poor Seraphim. How then shall we not thank Him for this unspeakable gift to us both? Even to the greatest hermits, my son, the Lord God does not always show His mercy in this way. This grace of God, like a loving mother, has been pleased to comfort your contrite heart at the intercession of the Mother of God herself. But why, my son, do you not look me in the eyes? Just look, and don't be afraid! The Lord is with us!"

Blessings!

 

[Yeznik]

Is the belief in Stigmata a purely Catholic thing? Or do other churches, or any of the Oriental Orthodx Churches believe it is valid?

God Bless.

I don't see why it cannot be valid.

 

[CopticGirl]

I don't see why it cannot be valid.

I think anything can happen and can be valid. But, I have only heard of this phenomena in the Catholic Church, and was wondering if others have heard of it in another denomination/church/faith/etc.

Monica,
Interesting story, thank you for sharing!

God bless.

 

[domi]

AWSOME!!!!!!! COPTIC ORTHODX FORUMS!!!!!! sry had to say it...COOL!!!!!

 

[feo]

is floating different from uncreated light?

 

[Rilian]

Yes, the uncreated light traditionally is viewed as the energies of God that we can come in contact with and experience, unlike God's unknowable essence. It is uncreated because it flows from God, it is pre existent.

Many of the theophanies in the Bible are thought to be manifestations of the uncreated light, such as when Moses came down from Mt. Sinai with his face shining so brightly the Israelites could not look at him, or the Transfiguration of Christ on Mt. Tabor.

Floating or bi-location I think is pretty rare. It basically means what it sounds like, being in two places at once.

 

[Konstantinos]

I think the CAtholic church has stigmatics because of the emphasis they place on christs crucifiction.

 

[CopticGirl]

I think the CAtholic church has stigmatics because of the emphasis they place on christs crucifiction.

How do they emphasis it more than the Orthodox Churches?

God Bless.

 

[Konstantinos]

During the rennissance Wewstern Humanism gave way to very Graphic Images of Christs Crucifixition. Also I have been to both Catholic and Orthodox Pascha services and The Orthodox place more Emphasis on the Glory of the ressurection. Maybe I should have said Emphasis maybe depiction

 

[Xpycoctomos]

this is true. I think God works miracles and gifts according to our "cultures" so that He may speak best to us. Stigmata is actually something not looked highly on WITHIN the Eastern Church. Actually, one criticism of stigmata is that generally the person not always... but Sty. Francis of Assisi is an example) have truly desired the gift of stigmata. In the east, supernatural gifts are not usually outward (and I will get to how the uncreated light and other things are not always outward) and NEVER desired. In fact, when wierd things happen, they are treated with fear and trembling and often ASSUMED they are from the devil until otherwise convinced (for often they have been of the devil). Often times the uncreated light and other seemingly "outward" signs of God's grace are not as outward as we'd think for they are many times only seen by those who are holy and rayerful and therefore in touch with God and His grace manifested through his servant. I once asked my priest if he had ever seen something like this. He got a very serious look on his face and said "no, I am worthy enough to see such a thing". This was actually before I was Orthodox. This struck me.

But, please understand, I am certainly no expert and I am not trying to imply that St. Francis of Assisi was demonically possessed. The West is so different in how it understands everything (even that early), experiences everything. Judging Western experiences with Eastern Criteria hardly seems fair to me. But i the end, I would venture a guess that stigmata would not usually be a WELCOMED event in the East but rather one to be very suspicious of.

John

 

[feo]

Floating or bi-location I think is pretty rare. It basically means what it sounds like, being in two places at once.

So is floating and bi-location two different things, or the same?

 

[Irish Melkite]

So is floating and bi-location two different things, or the same?

Feo,

Floating is literally that - levitating is another, probably more descriptive word for it. Some Saints have been described as having levitated or flown about or floated (don't ask me which ones, I don't have a book at hand - ok, ask, and I'll try and identify a couple and post names later today ).

Bi-location is different. It's literally being present, generally physically, in two places at once. Again, there are Saints who are said to have had this as a "gift"(?), for lack of a better word.

Both are, I believe, primarily spoken of in the Latin Church, although it seems to me that there may be instances of bi-location attributed to some Eastern Saints as well.

Many years,

Neil

 

[Rilian]

Both are, I believe, primarily spoken of in the Latin Church, although it seems to me that there may be instances of bi-location attributed to some Eastern Saints as well.

There was an Athonite monk in the 20th centuries that stories of bi-location were attributed to. I can't recall his name though.

 

[InnerPhyre]

this is true. I think God works miracles and gifts according to our "cultures" so that He may speak best to us. Stigmata is actually something not looked highly on WITHIN the Eastern Church. Actually, one criticism of stigmata is that generally the person not always... but Sty. Francis of Assisi is an example) have truly desired the gift of stigmata. In the east, supernatural gifts are not usually outward (and I will get to how the uncreated light and other things are not always outward) and NEVER desired. In fact, when wierd things happen, they are treated with fear and trembling and often ASSUMED they are from the devil until otherwise convinced (for often they have been of the devil). Often times the uncreated light and other seemingly "outward" signs of God's grace are not as outward as we'd think for they are many times only seen by those who are holy and rayerful and therefore in touch with God and His grace manifested through his servant. I once asked my priest if he had ever seen something like this. He got a very serious look on his face and said "no, I am worthy enough to see such a thing". This was actually before I was Orthodox. This struck me.

But, please understand, I am certainly no expert and I am not trying to imply that St. Francis of Assisi was demonically possessed. The West is so different in how it understands everything (even that early), experiences everything. Judging Western experiences with Eastern Criteria hardly seems fair to me. But i the end, I would venture a guess that stigmata would not usually be a WELCOMED event in the East but rather one to be very suspicious of.

John

Usually, when someone desires the stigmata, it's not as though he or she is looking for a gift to show how pious he or she is. It comes from such a deep love of Christ that someone wants to share in the pain that He experienced. Many stigmatics prayed to God to take it away once they experienced it. St. Padre Pio comes to mind. He was actually embarassed of his stigmata because they would bleed constantly and people were often grossed out by it and did everything he could to hide it.