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Hey, I wanted to talk about how I think there's a stigma toward superhero and comic book movies.

And unfortunately, I think the Dark Knight Trilogy is a big contributor to it.

It's unfortunate that geek culture still suffers this stigma even though it's arguably mainstream now. Apparently we're a bunch of kid-ults (adults who act like kids) who don't want to take the time to look into more "mature" or "real" entertainment.

By that logic, they should chunk all the great Greek myths and such out of their classical works. Comic book superheroes really are, if you think about it, the great modern myths. Some of these characters even play out like Greek tragedies.

But all of these "mature" people apparently don't think of comic books (and video games, but that's for another time) as art, and as such, in their minds, they shouldn't be taken seriously. Yeah, that's a reason why a lot of movies suck nowadays. Everything has to be "serious" (i.e. "dark," "gritty," and "painful."). If you like serious stuff, that's fine, but don't knock down other people who don't like seriousness that isn't earned.

Anyway, these are the same people who would gladly give awards to the Walking Dead TV series, and not the Walking Dead comic book, even though the latter has been met with widespread acclaim, and has been praised for its incredible storytelling.

For that matter, I seriously think the Dark Knight trilogy is one of the most overrated things ever and changed the view of comic book movies for the worse.

Why? Because they aren't "just comic book movies." What's wrong with being a comic book movie? Why can't comic book movies be regarded as great in their own right? Oh that's right. They aren't dark and depressing and "realistic." Yeah, like the Dark Knight trilogy is totally realistic.

Superheroes are not supposed to be realistic. They're supposed to be people we either see ourselves in or aspire to be like. That's a big reason why the Marvel Cinematic Universe has been so successful. They know they're comic book movies, but they don't talk down to the audience. Not to mention, how many franchises can boast that not ONE of their TWENTY titles has a rotten score on Rotten Tomatoes?

Now, I know the MCU isn't perfect, but I think a lot of people tend to dismiss them because they're "comic book movies." To me, that's reeks of pretentiousness and elitism. I'd much rather to aspire to be like Captain America than Batman. Captain America doesn't mope around about how he lost everyone dear to him, like Batman does. The former doesn't lose his ideals just because he suffered huge losses.

For that matter, I'd even aspire to be like Iron Man rather than Batman. Now Iron Man you can argue is more flawed than Captain America, and you're right. But what I really like about Iron Man is that he's constantly trying to make himself a better person, even if he's sometimes misguided or even fails. What matters to me is that he's making the effort and trying to hold himself accountable.

For the record, I like Batman fine. There's nothing wrong with him. But I seriously think he's the most overrated superhero ever. You can say the same thing about the Avengers or any other MCU movie, but the fact is people will say they can't hold a candle to the "masterpiece" that is the Dark Knight. Wow, talk about a double standard.

As I said before, if you like the Dark Knight trilogy, that's fine. But it's not perfect, just as the MCU is not perfect. Heck, I wouldn't even consider them superhero movies. They work better as crime/psychodramas.

Why would I want to watch Batman monologue and brood for a couple hours when I can watch the Avengers and the Guardians of the Galaxy fight the immense odds for everything they hold dear against the Mad Titan Thanos? So what if he's a giant purple alien man? The Joker is a madman who dresses like a clown. Is that really less ridiculous?

Anyway, these were just frustrations I wanted to get out. Let me know what you thought.
 
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Dansiph

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Hey, I wanted to talk about how I think there's a stigma toward superhero and comic book movies.

And unfortunately, I think the Dark Knight Trilogy is a big contributor to it.

It's unfortunate that geek culture still suffers this stigma even though it's arguably mainstream now. Apparently we're a bunch of kid-ults (adults who act like kids) who don't want to take the time to look into more "mature" or "real" entertainment.

By that logic, they should chunk all the great Greek myths and such out of their classical works. Comic book superheroes really are, if you think about it, the great modern myths. Some of these characters even play out like Greek tragedies.

But all of these "mature" people apparently don't think of comic books (and video games, but that's for another time) as art, and as such, in their minds, they shouldn't be taken seriously. Yeah, that's a reason why a lot of movies suck nowadays. Everything has to be "serious" (i.e. "dark," "gritty," and "painful."). If you like serious stuff, that's fine, but don't knock down other people who don't like seriousness that isn't earned.

Anyway, these are the same people who would gladly give awards to the Walking Dead TV series, and not the Walking Dead comic book, even though the latter has been met with widespread acclaim, and has been praised for its incredible storytelling.

For that matter, I seriously think the Dark Knight trilogy is one of the most overrated things ever and changed the view of comic book movies for the worse.

Why? Because they aren't "just comic book movies." What's wrong with being a comic book movie? Why can't comic book movies be regarded as great in their own right? Oh that's right. They aren't dark and depressing and "realistic." Yeah, like the Dark Knight trilogy is totally realistic.

Superheroes are not supposed to be realistic. They're supposed to be people we either see ourselves in or aspire to be like. That's a big reason why the Marvel Cinematic Universe has been so successful. They know they're comic book movies, but they don't talk down to the audience. Not to mention, how many franchises can boast that not ONE of their TWENTY titles has a rotten score on Rotten Tomatoes?

Now, I know the MCU isn't perfect, but I think a lot of people tend to dismiss them because they're "comic book movies." To me, that's reeks of pretentiousness and elitism. I'd much rather to aspire to be like Captain America than Batman. Captain America doesn't mope around about how he lost everyone dear to him, like Batman does. The former doesn't lose his ideals just because he suffered huge losses.

For that matter, I'd even aspire to be like Iron Man rather than Batman. Now Iron Man you can argue is more flawed than Captain America, and you're right. But what I really like about Iron Man is that he's constantly trying to make himself a better person, even if he's sometimes misguided or even fails. What matters to me is that he's making the effort and trying to hold himself accountable.

For the record, I like Batman fine. There's nothing wrong with him. But I seriously think he's the most overrated superhero ever. You can say the same thing about the Avengers or any other MCU movie, but the fact is people will say they can't hold a candle to the "masterpiece" that is the Dark Knight. Wow, talk about a double standard.

As I said before, if you like the Dark Knight trilogy, that's fine. But it's not perfect, just as the MCU is not perfect. Heck, I wouldn't even consider them superhero movies. They work better as crime/psychodramas.

Why would I want to watch Batman monologue and brood for a couple hours when I can watch the Avengers and the Guardians of the Galaxy fight the immense odds for everything they hold dear against the Mad Titan Thanos? So what if he's a giant purple alien man? The Joker is a madman who dresses like a clown. Is that really less ridiculous?

Anyway, these were just frustrations I wanted to get out. Let me know what you thought.
I used to only like Batman out of all the comic book heroes. My interest came from the Arkham games though, not the Nolan films. To be honest I stopped having much interest in Batman after becoming a Christian. At the moment I don't really have anything against Batman that comes to mind, I just have changed priorities.

I did like Batman: The Animated Series when I was young and Batman Beyond was cool too.

I like the brooding lol. Some other characters I used to be into - but not comic book characters - are Geralt from the Witcher series (games) and Corvo from the Dishonored game. You can probably see the similarities.

I actually dislike the Dark Knight Trilogy although I thought the first one was ok.

I'm probably not the best person to respond because I haven't seen many marvel films. Maybe I should watch some
 
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Is there some rule that "superpowers" must be accompanied by horrible inner-demons from a bad upbringing or some massive ptsd life experience?

Not necessarily. Superman did lose his entire planet but, 1) he was a baby when it happened, 2) he doesn't let that stop him from using his powers for peace and kindness.

I think what matters to me and what makes characters good to me is how they deal with their flaws and/or experiences.

But yeah, that is a good point. Some people say, "I'd wanna be Batman," but, really, you wouldn't. Think of all the crap you'd have to go through to be Batman.
 
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I used to only like Batman out of all the comic book heroes. My interest came from the Arkham games though, not the Nolan films. To be honest I stopped having much interest in Batman after becoming a Christian. At the moment I don't really have anything against Batman that comes to mind, I just have changed priorities.

I did like Batman: The Animated Series when I was young and Batman Beyond was cool too.

I like the brooding lol. Some other characters I used to be into - but not comic book characters - are Geralt from the Witcher series (games) and Corvo from the Dishonored game. You can probably see the similarities.

I actually dislike the Dark Knight Trilogy although I thought the first one was ok.

I'm probably not the best person to respond because I haven't seen many marvel films. Maybe I should watch some

I'm not trying to diss the DKT. I guess I've just never been one to get on hype trains. Batman is a good foil to Superman but do people really think Batman can beat Superman all on his own, even with prep time?

And yeah, video games also unfortunately still have a stigma to deal with.
 
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Sketcher

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Is there some rule that "superpowers" must be accompanied by horrible inner-demons from a bad upbringing or some massive ptsd life experience?
Powerful people need foils to bring them "down to earth" enough to make them relatable so an effective story can be told. Foils from within are much more effective at this than foils from strictly without.
 
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durangodawood

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Powerful people need foils to bring them "down to earth" enough to make them relatable so an effective story can be told. Foils from within are much more effective at this than foils from strictly without.
I agree in terms of storytelling. But its becoming a cliche. Or I should say, it was already a cliche at least a decade ago.
 
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Powerful people need foils to bring them "down to earth" enough to make them relatable so an effective story can be told. Foils from within are much more effective at this than foils from strictly without.

Yeah, that's the point I made. And that's why a lot of people didn't like Batman vs. Superman. They saw them fighting but they didn't experience it. They focused on style over substance, when substance was the reason a lot of people (or at least a lot of comic fans) wanted to see them fight. They represent 2 different ideologies. One is dark and aggressive, the other is kind and hopeful.

Not to mention Captain America: Civil War came out just weeks after, and it outdid BVS by $200 million. You know a movie with formerly B list characters has to be good and doing something right when it outgrosses friggin' BVS. If you were to tell a lot of comic fans 10 years ago that that would happen, they wouldn't have believed you.
 
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Dansiph

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I'm not trying to diss the DKT. I guess I've just never been one to get on hype trains. Batman is a good foil to Superman but do people really think Batman can beat Superman all on his own, even with prep time?

And yeah, video games also unfortunately still have a stigma to deal with.
Usually hype trains put me off. Although not all the time. I think the writers know the appeal of Batman is that he can beat anyone but I might be wrong, I'm just assuming.

Batman has beat superman in the past in the comics.

I think some of the stigma is warranted and some of it isn't :confused2:
 
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Usually hype trains put me off. Although not all the time. I think the writers know the appeal of Batman is that he can beat anyone but I might be wrong, I'm just assuming.

Batman has beat superman in the past in the comics.

I think some of the stigma is warranted and some of it isn't :confused2:

Funny, I didn't get into the MCU until I saw Avengers 1 when it came out. I remember it was all over the news, and I only went to see it with a friend 'cause I was bored.

And although it was the first MCU movie I saw, I liked how I was actually able to follow it pretty easily, and how it gave me just enough info on these characters to care about them. Plus it was really cool seeing all these heroes sharing the screen together, which, of course, had never been done before.

But it wasn't until I saw Iron Man 3 a year later that I knew I was a fan. I know some people are a bit iffy on that movie, and I do kinda get it. But Tony's character and journey were so interesting and compelling that I just loved it. Not to mention RDJ as Tony should be in like, top 5 casting choices of all time.

But yeah, you know a male character in his 40s/50s is good when the movie gets me, a girl in her mid 20s, to really care about and relate to him.

Actually if you really look into it, Superman let Batman win.

If you think about it, movies were viewed the same way when they first started.
 
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Usually hype trains put me off. Although not all the time. I think the writers know the appeal of Batman is that he can beat anyone but I might be wrong, I'm just assuming.

Batman has beat superman in the past in the comics.

I think some of the stigma is warranted and some of it isn't :confused2:

Batman tends to be OP, though that's the writer's fault. Plus it's kinda nonsensical to me that people say they like Batman because he's realistic. What? He earned 12 master's degrees, knows 127 martial arts, and perfected escape artistry. How is that realistic? He may have a more grounded world, but Batman himself is not possible.
 
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Actually if you really look into it, Superman let Batman win.

In Batman: The Dark Knight Returns comic? Just clarifying.

I have seen the first Iron Man, I've also seen The Hulk (2003) and the Toby Maguire Spiderman films.

I always thought Batman was possible :laughing: Maybe not 127 martial arts but that's just not necessary imo anyway. I think if he starts young with education and physical training, add in some talent and athleticism it's not the most far fetched thing in the world. By possible I don't mean actually possible but believeable if you get me

 
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tulc

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One of the differences between Batman and Superman is that most people (in the back of their minds) think: "I'm like 10 or so sit-ups away from being Batman, but I can never be Superman!" which might also explain why there's such a tendency to emphasize how, given sufficient prep-time, Batman can beat anyone. :)
as a side note, according to the Justice League movie even Batman has a "super" power:
tulc(wants to see the Aquaman movie!) ;)
 
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One of the differences between Batman and Superman is that most people (in the back of their minds) think: "I'm like 10 or so sit-ups away from being Batman, but I can never be Superman!" which might also explain why there's such a tendency to emphasize how, given sufficient prep-time, Batman can beat anyone. :)
as a side note, according to the Justice League movie even Batman has a "super" power:
tulc(wants to see the Aquaman movie!) ;)

Then that's Tony's superpower as well.

I'm okay with people not liking the MCU (not saying that about you), but you have to at least have respect for what they've accomplished. When the trailer to IW was dropped, there was someone on YouTube saying, "Well, how come everyone's so hyped for this and not as hyped for JL?" And it made me think, "Dude, this movie's been coming for 10 years."

I think that is another reason why I really like the MCU. There's so much emotional payoff and all the emotional moments feel earned because they took the time to set it up. Not to mention it is so rare nowadays for a studio to deliver on their promise. I went into both Civil War and IW trying to remind myself not to get too crazy about it. And believe me, I tried looking for mistakes. And yes, I know they're not perfect movies ('cause no movie is perfect), but IW is one of, I think, only 5 movies that made me cry, and I don't cry at movies.
 
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Batman tends to be OP

Speaking of OP have you seen the One Punch Man series? I've only seen the series on Netflix not read the comics. I'm just going through in my head any "heroes" I have liked watching and he sprang to mind
 
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Speaking of OP have you seen the One Punch Man series? I've only seen the series on Netflix not read the comics. I'm just going through in my head any "heroes" I have liked watching and he sprang to mind
To be fair, it's meant to be funny.
 
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Sketcher

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Not to mention Captain America: Civil War came out just weeks after, and it outdid BVS by $200 million. You know a movie with formerly B list characters has to be good and doing something right when it outgrosses friggin' BVS. If you were to tell a lot of comic fans 10 years ago that that would happen, they wouldn't have believed you.
Until it was made known that Ben Affleck would play Batman. That movie didn't have a chance.
 
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Citanul

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Plus it's kinda nonsensical to me that people say they like Batman because he's realistic. What? He earned 12 master's degrees, knows 127 martial arts, and perfected escape artistry.

While still managing to be a multi-millionaire playboy...
 
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I heard a lot of people liked him as Batman.
You know, I was surprised, but I was one of those people. The movie to me suffered from bad writing, not necessarily bad acting, though I hated how they portrayed Luther. It seemed more like Joker then LL.The real issue was how incoherent it was in an attempt to set up Justice League.
 
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