Stephen Fry...Can't help but agree

[GeorgiePorgy12]

Stephen fry did an interview and talked about God the other day here is the gist of it:
On the short clip, Fry is asked by veteran Irish TV presenter Gay Byrne what he would say to God if he died and had to confront him.
In his imaginary conversation with God, Fry says he would tell him: “How dare you create a world in which there is such misery that is not our fault? It’s not right.
“It’s utterly, utterly evil. Why should I respect a capricious, mean-minded, stupid God who creates a world which is so full of injustice and pain?”
Pressed by Byrne over how he would react if he was locked outside the pearly gates, Fry says: “I would say: ‘bone cancer in children? What’s that about?’
“Because the God who created this universe, if it was created by God, is quite clearly a maniac, utter maniac. Totally selfish. We have to spend our life on our knees thanking him?! What kind of god would do that?”
When I listened to it I couldn't help by agree...what do you guys think?

 

[oi_antz]

Stephen fry did an interview and talked about God the other day here is the gist of it:
On the short clip, Fry is asked by veteran Irish TV presenter Gay Byrne what he would say to God if he died and had to confront him.
In his imaginary conversation with God, Fry says he would tell him: “How dare you create a world in which there is such misery that is not our fault? It’s not right.
“It’s utterly, utterly evil. Why should I respect a capricious, mean-minded, stupid God who creates a world which is so full of injustice and pain?”
Pressed by Byrne over how he would react if he was locked outside the pearly gates, Fry says: “I would say: ‘bone cancer in children? What’s that about?’
“Because the God who created this universe, if it was created by God, is quite clearly a maniac, utter maniac. Totally selfish. We have to spend our life on our knees thanking him?! What kind of god would do that?”
When I listened to it I couldn't help by agree...what do you guys think?

I have thought a bit about this. First thing that comes to mind is the hypocrisy of Mr Fry's assumptions:

He says this:

"How dare you create a world in which there is such misery that is not our fault"

.. then he says this:

"Because the God who created this universe, if it was created by God, is quite clearly a maniac, utter maniac. Totally selfish."

.. and yet, in 2014 1.7 Trillion dollars is known to have been spent on wars, according to figures available at Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures

I suggest actually, the ones who incite or go to war for an unjust cause, are maniacs. Maniacs of the same culture are all around us too, waging war on their neighbours in seemingly less harmful ways. For an example, I was entering the motorway with my trailer, I put my foot down, some guy merged to the onramp in the lane next to me, slightly behind my trailer. He put his foot down, tried to get in front of me. I don't drive slow, and he could not get in front before the lane merged. He had to brake (his front bumper was behind my passenger door). He got very angry about that. Pulled beside me on the motorway looking angry, actually he could have just overtaken me. That guy is a maniac too. It is not the way God or Jesus would have responded, because God is actually not a maniac. People with their ego, sense of self, greed and desire to control others, are maniacs.

Also we see that societies themselves do not leverage the maximum potential from it's citizens. We have smart, capable people who due to financial circumstances, or social stigma, are prevented from accessing that potential and making it available to the world. People with sufficient intelligence to solve the problem of cancer are stuck flipping burgers because they need to pay for the roof over their head. They eat the foods that cause cancer because that is all they can afford. If you are of the belief that bone cancer is impossible to cure, then I guess you will have a different view than I do. I think it probably is possible to cure, and I think that the reason it has not been cured yet is because insufficient investment has been made toward it at this time. Do you know how many years have gone by since Jesus Christ? Do you know the fraction of that time is responsible for hygiene and technological advancements that give us quality of life (running, hot water, frozen foods, light anywhere, transport, vacuum cleaning, sterilization). All of this happened in 7.5% of the time since Jesus (that is only significant due to being known history). The timeline stretches several times more beyond that. Imagine then, if we had have had such unimpeded research 100% of that time. Would cancer be a problem now? Imagine too, if every single dollar spent on war was spent on cancer research, or every single person who was killed in the war was tasked with solving cancer. Do you think maybe Mr Fry would have something else to argue about today?

So, when Mr Fry says “How dare you create a world in which there is such misery that is not our fault? It’s not right.", I agree that something is not right, but I rather say it is due to human negligence when we have actually been equipped sufficiently. When it is said against human misery, it is necessary to investigate what is the cause of that misery. I expect we can always find humans to blame. It would be interesting to know whether that idea can be refuted, I think it can't.

“It’s utterly, utterly evil. Why should I respect a capricious, mean-minded, stupid God who creates a world which is so full of injustice and pain?”

This is a strawman argument, resulting from a misunderstanding of the problem, and erroneously placing the blame on the innocent person.

"We have to spend our life on our knees thanking him?! What kind of god would do that?”

I am not sure that it is demanded by God to spend our lives on our knees thanking Him. I think this is an exaggeration that Mr Fry has applied of his own accord, to emphasise his objection. It is clear that Mr Fry has found it convenient to blame God for the things he doesn't like in the world. It is common to see this happening. Can I ask you, is this the position you take too? Are you the sort of person who would expect a holy God to have made the world differently? If so, are you able to describe what should be done differently? I have asked this question to a couple of people before.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

Hi,

The fact is that one day all sickness disease, and suffering will be ended. When Jesus returns.

Evil whether is a terrorist blowing up kids (due to a twisted ideology), a thief stealing due to greed, or a person abusing others, all these things come as a result of mans choices. Most suffering is due to mans choices. Suffering such as sickness Jesus said was a "work of the devil", one he will one day also fully destroy, this is due to a demons choice to hurt others. In essence all suffering has come about as a result of free will, a thing God desires us to have, so we can of our own free will have a relationship with God.

We can choose to use our free will to do good or to do evil. We can be a beacon of hope, or a voice of discontent. God wants a world free of suffering, and sickness, and he will have that one day. But we can still have a taste of that hope as we individually live our lives submitted to the one who wants to bring hope to all people.

The bible says the fruit of God's spirit is love, joy, and peace. Those attributes are the ones he wants us to display. As for sickness, a person who submits them selves to God, can at times even taste sickness defeated in this age. A person in our family got so sick, entered a coma, and they were given death notices by doctors. Yet through the prayer of one of our relatives, she was fully restored (instantaneously). A lady in our church had a tumor, a cancer, we all prayed for her, and the tumor vanished, when the doctors went to operate they could find nothing.

 

[Hetta]

Children's cancer, and a lot of other cancer is not caused by "men's choices."

 

[Aidan K]

God created our world to be the best possible environment for all forms of life on the planet. The fact that an environment suitable for humanity is also suitable for malignant cells does not mean that God gave cancer to anyone. God has made us stewards of His creation. We can use our intelligence and resources to fight cancer or to fight wars. The choice is ours and when we chose there will be consequences, that's the point of free will

 

[GeorgiePorgy12]

‘bone cancer in children? What’s that about?’

 

[oi_antz]

‘bone cancer in children? What’s that about?’

This is an appeal to emotion.

 

[Soyeong]

How dare you create a world in which there is such misery that is not our fault? It’s not right.

If God were to take all of the causes of suffering in the world, line them up from least to greatest, remove the greatest, and create a new world without it, then people would still complain just as much about suffering. God could continue to do that until He created a world where the greatest suffering imaginable was stubbing your toe, and still people would complain. Why would an all-loving God allow people to stub their toe when He has the power to prevent that? So it's not a matter of why there is so much suffering, but about why God allows any suffering at all.

However, I think it goes further than because if God created a world where we could only experience either Joy or great joy, then why would He ever allow us to have the lesser experience? So the problem of suffering boils down to looking at an all-loving God, who wants us to love Him, to love others, and to do good, and wondering why He didn't create us in some sort of stasis field where we couldn't have any change in experience. If God did all the good available, then we would literally be good for nothing.

 

[aiki]

Stephen fry did an interview and talked about God the other day here is the gist of it:
On the short clip, Fry is asked by veteran Irish TV presenter Gay Byrne what he would say to God if he died and had to confront him.
In his imaginary conversation with God, Fry says he would tell him: “How dare you create a world in which there is such misery that is not our fault? It’s not right.
“It’s utterly, utterly evil. Why should I respect a capricious, mean-minded, stupid God who creates a world which is so full of injustice and pain?”
Pressed by Byrne over how he would react if he was locked outside the pearly gates, Fry says: “I would say: ‘bone cancer in children? What’s that about?’
“Because the God who created this universe, if it was created by God, is quite clearly a maniac, utter maniac. Totally selfish. We have to spend our life on our knees thanking him?! What kind of god would do that?”
When I listened to it I couldn't help by agree...what do you guys think?

Oh, ugh. Fry at his best, which isn't saying much, I'm afraid.

From a biblical perspective, corruption, sickness, and death are the result of the advent of sin into the world. And the advent of sin into the world is Man's doing, not God's. If Fry wants to curse someone for the cancer which strikes a child, let him start with himself and the selfish, sinful human race to which he belongs.

What is so very silly about Fry's comments is how terribly small his understanding of God is. But, then, it has to be. The God revealed in the Bible, the Creator and Sustainer of every particle and point in the universe is far too big for the shrill condescension and impotent fist-shaking Fry wishes to indulge. When Fry finally meets his Maker, he won't be protesting God's policies and decisions but quaking with terror at the power, holiness, and infiniteness of the One who is about to judge him.

Selah.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

Children's cancer, and a lot of other cancer is not caused by "men's choices."

Hi I assume you are referring to my post. I did not say cancer was caused by man, I said it was caused by the devil. The devil causes many forms of sickness, Job as an example in the bible suffered terribly from sickness, his sickness was caused by Satan, yet Job was a very righteous man. Jesus said that he came to destroy the works of Satan, one of which he said was sickness. Many times sickness is equated with demons in the bible, Jesus drove out the demons, and sickness where ever he went. In heaven there will be no sickness at all, and there will be no devil inflicting it upon man. One of our jobs as believers here on earth is to pray for the sick (according to the bible), each of us if we have true faith in Jesus can be a partaker in the miraculous. Regardless of how sickness has come upon a person Jesus can fully restore. It is our job to be in God's presence enough to be entrusted with the ability to do what Jesus did.

1Co 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

As a church we need to be seeking God for these gifts of "Miracles", and "healings".

 

[Armoured]

I have thought a bit about this. First thing that comes to mind is the hypocrisy of Mr Fry's assumptions:

He says this:

"How dare you create a world in which there is such misery that is not our fault"

.. then he says this:

"Because the God who created this universe, if it was created by God, is quite clearly a maniac, utter maniac. Totally selfish."

.. and yet, in 2014 1.7 Trillion dollars is known to have been spent on wars, according to figures available at Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures

I suggest actually, the ones who incite or go to war for an unjust cause, are maniacs. Maniacs of the same culture are all around us too, waging war on their neighbours in seemingly less harmful ways. For an example, I was entering the motorway with my trailer, I put my foot down, some guy merged to the onramp in the lane next to me, slightly behind my trailer. He put his foot down, tried to get in front of me. I don't drive slow, and he could not get in front before the lane merged. He had to brake (his front bumper was behind my passenger door). He got very angry about that. Pulled beside me on the motorway looking angry, actually he could have just overtaken me. That guy is a maniac too. It is not the way God or Jesus would have responded, because God is actually not a maniac. People with their ego, sense of self, greed and desire to control others, are maniacs.

Also we see that societies themselves do not leverage the maximum potential from it's citizens. We have smart, capable people who due to financial circumstances, or social stigma, are prevented from accessing that potential and making it available to the world. People with sufficient intelligence to solve the problem of cancer are stuck flipping burgers because they need to pay for the roof over their head. They eat the foods that cause cancer because that is all they can afford. If you are of the belief that bone cancer is impossible to cure, then I guess you will have a different view than I do. I think it probably is possible to cure, and I think that the reason it has not been cured yet is because insufficient investment has been made toward it at this time. Do you know how many years have gone by since Jesus Christ? Do you know the fraction of that time is responsible for hygiene and technological advancements that give us quality of life (running, hot water, frozen foods, light anywhere, transport, vacuum cleaning, sterilization). All of this happened in 7.5% of the time since Jesus (that is only significant due to being known history). The timeline stretches several times more beyond that. Imagine then, if we had have had such unimpeded research 100% of that time. Would cancer be a problem now? Imagine too, if every single dollar spent on war was spent on cancer research, or every single person who was killed in the war was tasked with solving cancer. Do you think maybe Mr Fry would have something else to argue about today?

So, when Mr Fry says “How dare you create a world in which there is such misery that is not our fault? It’s not right.", I agree that something is not right, but I rather say it is due to human negligence when we have actually been equipped sufficiently. When it is said against human misery, it is necessary to investigate what is the cause of that misery. I expect we can always find humans to blame. It would be interesting to know whether that idea can be refuted, I think it can't.

“It’s utterly, utterly evil. Why should I respect a capricious, mean-minded, stupid God who creates a world which is so full of injustice and pain?”

This is a strawman argument, resulting from a misunderstanding of the problem, and erroneously placing the blame on the innocent person.

"We have to spend our life on our knees thanking him?! What kind of god would do that?”

I am not sure that it is demanded by God to spend our lives on our knees thanking Him. I think this is an exaggeration that Mr Fry has applied of his own accord, to emphasise his objection. It is clear that Mr Fry has found it convenient to blame God for the things he doesn't like in the world. It is common to see this happening. Can I ask you, is this the position you take too? Are you the sort of person who would expect a holy God to have made the world differently? If so, are you able to describe what should be done differently? I have asked this question to a couple of people before.

Um, that isn't hypocrisy, unless you think Stephen Fry is the one funding all the wars.

 

[Hawkins]

It's more like a pet fish complaining about how dirty a filter of an aquarium is.

When you are trying to build a clean aquarium for pet fishes, you need first set up a filter. The filter is dirty in order for the aquarium to be clean.

Earth is the filter for Heaven. Heaven is the clean aquarium to be built. It's men's arrogance mistakenly treats the filter as the aquarium.


Ever since Adam sinned and was kicked out of God's realm, humans are living outside God's realm. Earth is described as a wilderness full of wolves. Satan is said to be the god in this realm. We Christians are trying to return back to God's realm (i.e., the Kingdom of God in Heaven).

While any place outside God's realm is expected to bu full of miseries, such as hell. Earth is a better place than hell because God is still having a job to do here.

 

[Chicken Little]

"is quite clearly a maniac, utter maniac. Totally selfish"

 

[James Is Back]

Mod Hat On

Thread closed permanently due to Statement Of Purpose violation as the OP is a Christian and you have to be a non Christian to start threads in the Exploring Christianity forum. See the SoP for more info - http://www.christianforums.com/thre...anity-sop-please-read-before-posting.7454511/

Mod Hat Off​