Stephen Fry - asked What He Would Say If He Met God

[tonybeer]

I don't think God designed them - they were simply a potential result of the fallen world bought about by man's rebellion. There would be no such thing is man had simply walked with God in the way originally intended.

How do you explain the existence of 'evil'?

You can't both claim that God designed the entire universe, and then say there are bits that he did not design.

Well actually you could, but that would involve evolution, which you've said before that you don't. Evolution doesn't actually solve this problem as God would still know what the outcome of evolution would be at the start of the universe, so it is still his design.

Further questions:

Did God know that his design of man would rebel when he was creating man? He can see the future remember.

Did God design the rule whereby diseases would come into existence if man rebelled? If not, who or what did make this rule - something more powerful than God?

 

[Danny777]

You can't both claim that God designed the entire universe, and then say there are bits that he did not design.

Let's say I designed a game (ie. football) - if one of the players breaks the leg of an opponent, you could not say that is an incident I specifically designed - just something that had the potential to happen...

Well actually you could, but that would involve evolution, which you've said before that you don't. Evolution doesn't actually solve this problem as God would still know what the outcome of evolution would be at the start of the universe, so it is still his design.

I've said I don't believe human beings arose via unguided mutations over millions of years from sub-primal slime. I do believe in 'natural selection' which is different and a topic for a different thread.

Further questions:

Did God know that his design of man would rebel when he was creating man? He can see the future remember.

God exists outside of time. I suspect He did know man would rebel but designed man for a relationship that was restored through Jesus Christ. It is not possible to have a meaningful loving relationship with someone UNLESS they have the option of walking away. Hence, the free-will of mankind...

Did God design the rule whereby diseases would come into existence if man rebelled? If not, who or what did make this rule - something more powerful than God?

These are not rules in the sense you are describing - just side effects of the fall...

Maybe, you could answer a question - how do you explain the existence of evil?

 

[tonybeer]

Maybe, you could answer a question - how do you explain the existence of evil?

What is your definition of evil?

 

[AndrewZinc]

Stephen Fry has rejected the existence of God. If God were to exist, Stephen Fry knows how he should have created a better world, dealt better with his people and even how his character could be improved.

In a sense, what Stephen Fry thinks, doesn't matter. The truth is that God doesn't have to explain himself to us - he is God:

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways," declares the Lord. "As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts." - Isaiah 55.8-9

Thankfully, God doesn't amuse himself playing with us like ants, nor does he get off on us 'on our knees thanking him all the time'. He doesn't need our worship, even though he deserves it. He gave us minds and his Word, the Bible to help us understand. Again, he didn't have to, but he wants us to see the truth and be saved.

Stephen Fry should be careful about slandering a God he will have to answer to, because he will depend on that God to save him.

 

[florida2]

I don't think God designed them - they were simply a potential result of the fallen world bought about by man's rebellion. There would be no such thing is man had simply walked with God in the way originally intended.

How do you explain the existence of 'evil'?

Man's rebellion? You mean wanting to have a bit more knowledge?

Did Adam and Eve want to get rid of God? Did they disown God? No, quite the opposite - they were still God fearing people who ran and his when they did something wrong, just like children do from a parent. Yeah, they screwed up but rebellion? That's a bit strong.

Why are we still punished for it? What did all those species of bacteria which require living in other organisms in a harmful way (ie pathogens) do before the fall? It makes no sense.

 

[ianb321red]

You can't both claim that God designed the entire universe, and then say there are bits that he did not design.

I believe you are saying:

God created all things
Evil is something
Therefore, God created evil..

However this is incorrect:

Evil is NOT a thing - it is a corruption of a good thing....much like a rotting tree or a rusting car....

 

[ianb321red]

What is your definition of evil?

The corruption of good

 

[MorkandMindy]

I believe you are saying:

God created all things
Evil is something
Therefore, God created evil..

However this is incorrect:

Evil is NOT a thing - it is a corruption of a good thing....much like a rotting tree or a rusting car....

Like houses don't catch on fire and burn people to death, it is just the absence of unburnt wood and unburnt people.

 

[tonybeer]

I believe you are saying:

God created all things
Evil is something
Therefore, God created evil..

However this is incorrect:

Evil is NOT a thing - it is a corruption of a good thing....much like a rotting tree or a rusting car....

Well, in particular:

God created all things
A disease is something
Therefore, God created disease.

 

[Bungle_Bear]

It's pointing out that God made an entire universe. How can can someone who cannot even make a planet judge God's actions in how He makes said universe.

Logical fallacy number 1 - Argument from incredulity
Logical fallacy number 2 - Unwarranted assumption

So I was right, special pleading

Those eye burrowing worms are a necessary part of the universe - if they were not, they would not be here.

Another unwarranted assumption.

 

[MorkandMindy]

...Those eye burrowing worms are a necessary part of the universe - if they were not, they would not be here.
...

Without eye-burrowing worms there could be no universe

.

 

[Bungle_Bear]

I believe you are saying:

God created all things
Evil is something
Therefore, God created evil..

However this is incorrect:

Evil is NOT a thing - it is a corruption of a good thing....much like a rotting tree or a rusting car....

Neither of which are evil or corrupting.

What you appear to be saying is that God can only create physical objects. That's quite a limitation you're imposing.

 

[MorkandMindy]

There is no such thing as evil, so is there such a thing as Satan?

 

[Bungle_Bear]

Without eye-burrowing worms there could be no universe

.

Makes you wonder how the universe continued to exist when the Dodo went extinct. Or the Passenger pigeon, Thylacine or even small pox.

 

[King Mob]

If, after a lifetime of professing to be an atheist, you found you were totally wrong, surely there is a more appropriate response than using insult and delivering a character assassination to the God you didn't even believe in?!

Stephen Fry keeps referring to God as evil which is bizarre - who's moral barometer does he use to accuse God of being evil?

I'd go farther than evil, I say wicked, bitter, twisted, hateful. Yeah on second thoughts evil pretty much sums IT up

 

[King Mob]

The idea of a moral compass by the way makes virtually no sense in a godless universe.

Obviously there is no evidence for this. Both Danny and myself believe that God is what our moral compass points to (or not), and we also believe that the god of the bible exists in this universe - so this explains how we see things.

The evidence would have to be via 2 control groups - one living in this universe and one living in a godless universe - and conduct an experiment thus...

Ok, so in the godless universe, cancers, ebola, AIDS, etc doesn't exist, but in the monotheistic world of Ianb the former all thrive like a well seasoned rash.

So we destroy Jehovah we destroy all of the bad in the world.

 

[King Mob]

Let's be specific - as a Christian, I follow Christ (obviously!)...do you think the rules that Jesus Christ instructed (ie. love thy neighbour etc) are moral? Jesus' words and actions appeal to my sense of morality as I'm sure do to most people...

Pity he didn't include, no child cancers, AIDS shall be smote and Ebola shall be eradicated. Naw, that would be too much like he cares.

 

[MorkandMindy]

I'd go farther than evil, I say wicked, bitter, twisted, hateful.

What scripture do you have to support that accusation? Reality doesn't count, they want nothing but scripture scripture scripture...

God has always been kind except on occasions, I guess there is the drowning of almost everyone and virtually all the animals in Gen 7, the killing of the first born in Exodus, total genocide in the promised land, torment for non believers, total destruction of the planet with fire starvation and pestilence in Revelation that I can think of right now
.

 

[King Mob]

Maybe at the end of the day is it actually humans who cause cancer by the way we eat, Earth, technology. It's it our freewill be well free and not be robots for god. Maybe a part of this is what we do does have cause and affect....

And I don't get then how God can stop that ?

I don't think God wants too see anyone suffer.... And since Stephen doesn't know God then he doesn't understand this...

Yeah kids who develop leukaemia must really regret all those years of food abuse.

Plonk!

 

[Robban]

Ok, so in the godless universe, cancers, ebola, AIDS, etc doesn't exist, but in the monotheistic world of Ianb the former all thrive like a well seasoned rash.

So we destroy Jehovah we destroy all of the bad in the world.

Something I don,t get, toward the end of the clip he said,

"The sooner you abandon Him the better, Life becomes better,"
but the negative he previously mentioned, also these Eye burrowing insect, are still around,

What does he mean by that?