Stem Cell and Organ Harvest

[johnd]

And I believe the umbilical cord can be used for harvesting stem cells.

Joni Erickson Tada made a very good case for this on Larry King Live some time back. See also:
http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:_L4OaWyZ3r0J:www.joniandfriends.org/press_box/Stem_Cell_Therapeudic_and_Research_Act_of_2005.pdf+stem&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1

I do not know if she actually said or believes this, but if Christopher Reeve had championed ADULT stem cell research the way he did fetal, the research might have progressed to the point that he would at least still be alive today. The push for embryonic stem cell harvesting and research is politically motivated by pro-abortionists. According to Tada those stem cells have proven less effective than adult stem cells that can even be harvested from the recipient.

The fight over stem cell research is that it is not about stem cell research but abortion.

 

[IisJustMe]

Excuse me. . . Does organ harvesting involve killing a person soley for their organs?

But one need only review the comments here to wonder if that time isn't all that far off. For now, "organ harvesting" is only done from the recently dead, who had previously signed organ donor cards or contracts to allow the removal of organs vital to the survival of others. How much longer it is so restricted is limited only by the greed and avarice of those you see offering "alternate opinions" on this forum.

 

[JulySheMustFly]

But one need only review the comments here to wonder if that time isn't all that far off. For now, "organ harvesting" is only done from the recently dead, who had previously signed organ donor cards or contracts to all the removal of organs vital to the survival of others. How much longer it is so restricted is limited only by the greed and avarice of those you see offering "alternate opinions" on this forum.

Thank you. Harvesting is such an awlful sounding word to use in reference to humans.

 

[SolomonVII]

But one need only review the comments here to wonder if that time isn't all that far off. For now, "organ harvesting" is only done from the recently dead, who had previously signed organ donor cards or contracts to all the removal of organs vital to the survival of others. How much longer it is so restricted is limited only by the greed and avarice of those you see offering "alternate opinions" on this forum.

I doubt that the chinese government would have much trouble getting their condemned to fulfill the necessary legal niceties and fill out the donor card.

zzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZT!!!

 

[JulySheMustFly]

both options are morally acceptable for me.

I think that the use of stem cells will save millions of lives in the future. I'm ok with losing a few lives now to save millions of lives in the future.

Lots of people may be ok with losing a few now to save millions later. But, is God ok with it? Shouldn't that be our ultimate test as to where we stand on issues?

 

[SolomonVII]

I am actually quite encouraged that so high a percentage of Christians have voted that both choices are morally repugnant. I was actually a little more pessimistic about the results at the beginning.

One thing that hasn't really come out yet would be whether- for those people who believe that harvesting organs from the condemned is alright- whether or not they are okay with the idea of capital punishment in the first place?
If not, then wouldn't using the condemned man's organs in effect be justifying capital punishment on the grounds of opportunity

 

[lilymarie]

Sorry I didn't read either of these threads 'til now. I actually haven't even read the other one because "harvesting in a barn" sounds like something satanic to me. I don't know what harvesting is either, and I'm not sure I want to even read that thread!!!!!!!!!!! It sounds real creepy.

As far as stem cell research with embryos -- that may not even be necessary for stem cell research anymore. Did any of you read or hear in the news that science has found a way to clone stem cells from male testicles WHILE ONE IS ALIVE. This type of stem cell research has nothing to do with any type of living creature having to be dead in order to recreate cells. AND, science is working on a way to regrow good cells from parts of a woman's body; no death involved. If science can grow someone's own liver cells from their own person -- why not? It's much better than trying to receive an organ transplant with the high rate of rejection in the transplantee.

But, as far as hurting criminals -- NO!!!!!!!

I mean what would Jesus do? Jesus even told us to "bless our enemies".

 

[steen]

#1, what happens when abortion is not practiced anymore? Where will they get the material.

Actually, your remark shows a profound lack of understanding of where stemcells come from. The pleuropotential embryonic stemcells don't come from aborted embryos or fetuses. I am not sure where you got that idea from, but you were lied to. Stemcells comes from in-vitro fertilized embryos that never are implanted to begin with. They come from labs.

 

[steen]

It never stops does it.Mans desire to live forever,without pain or problem.Such things are not and never will be possible in this life.We have to be careful about what we do,trying to achieve the impossible.One thing is certain, the cells in question are human.

So are the cells making up your appendix, which we will remove with not a moment's concern.

So are the cells in hair roots from hair you might pull out in frustration over pro-choicers.

I have to go on record as saying, that in spite of any potential cures that may be made available by stem cell research,the potential for outrageous abuse of some people, for the sake of others, is likely.

Which is meaningless to me, f.ex. as I in no way see a non-implanted embryo ever as being "others."

 

[steen]

...The fact that the embryos used are abortion and fertility clinic cast off's makes not a whit of difference to me. Two wrongs will never equal a right.

(1) That you don't want a cure from this doesn't mean that others wont (incl. as we have seen, a significant number of republican senators). (2) Embryonic stem cells never come from abortions. (3) Other than your subjective belief, there is nothing showing stem cell cures to be a "wrong."

 

[steen]

Many of the criminals executed in China are young and with healty organs. Rather than burying the organs with the condemned criminal, the Chinese government harvest them.

Since the Chiense government executes so many people, and because the availability of good organs are always in short supply, there is a definite captialistc opportunity there, according to the laws of supply and demand.
The Chinese government has already decided that the life of the criminal is worthy of death. It is they who are exercising the option of organ harvesting, and not the criminal who has given up his/her rights when he/she ran afoul of the government.

Is this morally acceptable?

It is very NON-pro-choice.

 

[steen]

First, he didn't ban stem cell research. He banned the creation and harvesting of fetus's for their stem cells

Stem cells come from embryos, not fetuses.

which is genocide.

Nope. That is a serious misuse of the term.

Using already dead fetus is still perfectly legal and I believe perfectly justified.

These are not sources for the pleuripotential stem cells. These come from lab-created embryos that never were implanted.

 

[steen]

The fight over stem cell research is that it is not about stem cell research but abortion.

Huh? These embryos are never even implanted, so it is definitely NOT about abortions.

 

[bliz]

Huh? These embryos are never even implanted, so it is definitely NOT about abortions.

Yeah... it's only about murder.

 

[steen]

Yeah... it's only about murder.

"Murder" is the illegal killing of a person, so it clearly is NOT about murder either. Why did you think "bumper-sticker" emotional histrionics would further the discussion of the issue

Could you please resist derailing the subject with platitudes, thanks!

 

[illudium_phosdex]

(1) That you don't want a cure from this doesn't mean that others wont (incl. as we have seen, a significant number of republican senators). (2) Embryonic stem cells never come from abortions. (3) Other than your subjective belief, there is nothing showing stem cell cures to be a "wrong."

1.)WRONG! I would love to have a cure today but I will not have my eternal soul perish in Hell for a cure today. Because I know that one day my savior will be back to return me to my body and when that day comes, my body will be whole and perfect. 2.) Fine. They come solely from fertility clinic cast offs. I don't care were they come from. They are humans. Albeit small humans but still humans. 3.)And other than your subjective belief, theres nothing showing them to be "right."

 

[steen]

1.)WRONG! I would love to have a cure today but I will not have my eternal soul perish in Hell for a cure today. Because I know that one day my savior will be back to return me to my body and when that day comes, my body will be whole and perfect.

Did you miss how I talked about a cure "FROM THIS," from embryonic stem cell treatments? As such, my point still stands that just because you don't want to, others may not agree with you.

2.) Fine. They come solely from fertility clinic cast offs. I don't care were they come from. They are humans.

Well, that's nothing but an absolutist "just because I say so" postulation. They certainly are "human" is in the species designation. The claim of them being "humans' as in individual persons, that is merely your subjective, unsubstantiated belief. Big difference.

Albeit small humans but still humans.

I don't share your subjective, unsubstantiated belief.

3.)And other than your subjective belief, theres nothing showing them to be "right."

Are you talking to the mirror here?

 

[illudium_phosdex]

Did you miss how I talked about a cure "FROM THIS," from embryonic stem cell treatments? As such, my point still stands that just because you don't want to, others may not agree with you.

No I didn't miss it. And I know there are others who would like to have a cure from this disease or many other afflictions and they don't care where it comes from. They are wrong.

Well, that's nothing but an absolutist "just because I say so" postulation. They certainly are "human" is in the species designation. The claim of them being "humans' as in individual persons, that is merely your subjective, unsubstantiated belief. Big difference.

Just as subjective and unsubstantiated as your claim that they aren't. Go ahead. Try and proove to me that they aren't human beings.

I don't share your subjective, unsubstantiated belief.

We can't all be as enlightened as myself.

Are you talking to the mirror here?

I believe that using embryonic stem cells is wrong because it involved the willful destruction of a life. Your view that there is no life involved and there fore there is nothing wrong with using embryonic stem cells is just as subjective if not more so. I base my belief on faith. What is your belief based on?

 

[steen]

No I didn't miss it. And I know there are others who would like to have a cure from this disease or many other afflictions and they don't care where it comes from. They are wrong.

Now, there is a fascinating way of making a claim. If they don't agree with you, they are "wrong"? And you were willing to come right out and say so.

Just as subjective and unsubstantiated as your claim that they aren't. Go ahead. Try and proove to me that they aren't human beings.

A "being" is an indiviual entity. Your liver or kidney is not a being.

We can't all be as enlightened as myself.

******

I believe that using embryonic stem cells is wrong because it involved the willful destruction of a life.

Yes, we don't doubt you believe that. Some people believe the Earth is flat. Some people believe Iraq was involved in 9/11 and that Saddam had WMDs. So?

Your view that there is no life involved

This is a misrepresentation of my view. The embryo certainly is made up of live cells.

and there fore there is nothing wrong with using embryonic stem cells is just as subjective if not more so. I base my belief on faith. What is your belief based on?

Science.

 

[illudium_phosdex]

Now, there is a fascinating way of making a claim. If they don't agree with you, they are "wrong"? And you were willing to come right out and say so.

Um, I don't agree with you. Am I right or wrong in your eyes? It can't be both ways. So yes, if someone disagrees with me, they are wrong. If I thought they were right, then there would be no reason behind me believeing what I do. I, honestly, don't get the mentality that everyone is "right."

A "being" is an indiviual entity. Your liver or kidney is not a being.

You'll have to do better. I'm not convinced.

Yes, we don't doubt you believe that. Some people believe the Earth is flat. Some people believe Iraq was involved in 9/11 and that Saddam had WMDs. So?

This has nothing to do with the subject at hand.

This is a misrepresentation of my view. The embryo certainly is made up of live cells.

My pinky finger is made up of live cells, but is it a life? There is a difference. Is an embryo a life or just a clump of living cells?

Science.

How does science proove that embryonic stem cell research is right?