staying in a marriage where spouse is violent on a regular basis?

[Kit Sigmon]

BUMP....

i agree

yes...

honestly, i do not know the person very well, but i think she is a wolf in sheep's clothing.

 

[Jonathan Leo]

Johnathan Lee I would bet money that domestic abusers are virtually always into inappropriate content. That is a ground for divorce. The Savior said if you even look on a woman with lust you have committed adultery in your heart. We either believe the Word or we don't. A inappropriate content habit is not just a glance with lust you repent of, but a prolonged involvement in an adulterous life style.

Very true indeed.
I used to be addicted to inappropriate content, but was set free when I met Jesus. After conducting my own study on inappropriate content and using the Bible as my knowledge and wisdom, I concluded that inappropriate content kills your ability to love any woman.
Now abusers certainly don’t love their partners.
Good point you made.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

What advice could you offer her, or other such women, for getting documentation so that the children are protected from harm in any proposed visitation rights?

Make an application through the Family Court to get a protection order. This provides protection for the wife and children. It means that the violent spouse can see the children only under specific conditions and visitation rights can be suspended if the children are put at risk. When a protection order is made, the respondent can only have contact with the applicant and her children as long as the applicant gives permission. If she feels the children are in danger she can withdraw that permission and if the respondent refuses to comply, it is a breach of the protection order. In New Zealand breaching a protection order carries a maximum sentence of two years in prison. If the applicant cannot afford a lawyer, she can apply for legal aid, and in New Zealand, this is automatically granted for protection order applications, and the application will not be denied the protection order.

 

[WolfGate]

I have to ask WHY remarriage always comes up when this subject is approached. That wasn't part of the question, and yet it seems it is something always seem to rush to. It makes no sense to me.

Safety - not speeches on remarriage - is something this individual needs. Healing, and support is what the family needs. If there are children? Finding ways of helping them deal with the trauma. Struggling with loving the person, and yet being very afraid of the person for good reason. There are so many awful and real things that must be addressed.

lol yet, people just have to get that one nugget out about remarriage out there. It's not needed now. People are completely overwhelmed with what they have on their plate, and its just NOT the time to talk about that.

Society - and the church - have for years been so afraid to approach this subject with any reality. There have been so many horror stories on how BADLY they have approached it. I remember years ago John Piper did a video on this subject, and you could tell how badly he was out of his realm. It was just terrible. It took I think it was 2 year AFTER they took the video down before they addressed the backlash, and even then they did a awful job at it.

What's wrong with ONE step at a time! Safety first, and then work a game plan. It's going to a long haul, and that's just the reality of it. Remarriage is the LAST thing on people's minds. Most want to save their relationship, and yet to many rush ahead to this subject. They don't need the extra stuff - they have enough on their plates.

HannahT - I don't get that either. It's like they're saying "think twice about leaving because you won't be able to be a wife anymore" which is really a non-consideration compared to safety and mental and physical health. I am sure it comes from the old patriarchal view that the real role of a woman is to be a wife and mother. The person being abused can deal with that piece of theology after addressing the urgent and immediate needs.

 

[HannahT]

There is no one fix solves all problems. Yes if they think it safeer to leave they should, but the problem still has to be addressed.

Violence in a relationship isn't a one time deal. It's always followed by more. Abusive personalities have a illness of some sort. They have a mindset that just isn't rational.

It's odd that people say if they 'think' it would be safer than leave. I'll never understand why people are so afraid to tell people to get to safety. It's like their priorities are completely off. Their wedding ring shouldn't stop people from encouraging what is right here. They may not want to leave, because they know what will happen if they do. It will make matters worse. Staying is enabling the behavior, and you will never get the problem addressed ever at that point.

The problem can be addressed with dealing with the individuals separately. The victim needs to feel safe first and foremost. They also have to find a way of realizing someone's else violence isn't their fault. I mean we aren't talking about a spouse/partner being a jerk one day here. Everyone is capable of that.

We are speaking of an individual that a huge lack of empathy or compassion for the ones they were to love the most. I often wonder what happened to them when they lost that aspect of human behavior. It's actually extremely sad when you think about it. When you look to their victim - and speak to them? They are so beat down their self worth is no better than the soles of your shoes.

Abusive personalities tend to think everyone else is the problem. The partner is the problem, children are the problem, work is the problem, money is the problem, etc. Once you help the partner get to safety? You have just been added to the list.

They almost remind me of an addict. You can't help them unless they are willing to help themselves. They will con you and manipulate you - because that is what addicts do. You hold their feet to the fire? You will also get burned, because they can only handle that for so long. You will be told you pushed to far, and they will make you feel as if you did too. It's a lifetime skill they have learned, and it is one of self protection. They are just as complicated and complex as their victims are. lol just in different ways!

No one mentioned it was a one time fix. No one said one fix will fix anything. I think at times when people use that type of response its due to fear of not knowing the answer. I mean no one may. It doesn't mean we can't face the HUGE problem of fear, and brokenness - to a degree we may have never seen before. It's an intimidating subject for anyone.

The problem you see with partners that are victims of these individuals? They can't fix it because they don't have the tools, and when they have reached out ever so slightly in the past? They received very simplistic and mundane advice. This makes them feel stupid, because they have NOT figured out that 'simple' part that everyone keeps telling them about. You have just confirmed what they partner has been telling them all long. They are to stupid to figure this out. So, in many instances they keep silent...until something awful happens.

It's a sick and scary dynamic.

 

[Blade]

Yoona86, Ask this here and one will get all kind of answers. From.. you should leave.. you should stay.. .this is not the place if one is really having problems. For most I believe do not sit in the middle. They never hear both sides.

What is "winning them over"? Are they saved.. or not saved? To get married with this hope.. the word make it clear. That would be very unwise.

One needs Christ in this. For without Him you can not see the others heart. You see flesh you judge based on flesh and in the end you helped who? I know of what I speak. I had rights from Gods word. Yet even though it was my right. It would not please Him. Being married ... wow means more to the Father then you know. Ask Him some time.. read how He feels about israel and how many times she left.

See as she was standing selling her self to all those men. He stood in line and bought her back. Thats just a TINY taste of my Fathers love. What did He see in her? Israel is back in her land not because they follow Him they dont. He put them back for HE IS FAITHFUL. For HIS name sake. He never ever gives up or quits on you. So... how can I be any different. So.. no matter what.. I will love.. and this LOVE is what changed all. Was not easy.. more harder then you know..yet.. it PLEASED HIM!

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

My view is marriage is sacred and for life. No ifs and or buts. Divorce is a sin. So does this mean I am saying they should stay in the violent marriage? No. I am saying stay married but leave and go somewhere safe. At some point the abusive spouse will get so annoyed that your still married but apart, they will likely initialize the divorce stuff. Which I'd still fight the divorce just on the basis of what God says.

But if you sign the papers (that they started) then you'd be free. However next is the part most christians don't like to hear. You can't marry anyone anymore. Lawfully you are divorced, but in Gods eyes you are married. Now some say "Um, how is that even fair? I can't marry because my abusive spouse divorced me?". Well heres the hard truth right from the bible. Nothing in this life is promised or guaranteed. There are many things we are stuck with until we die. From bad health, to debt, to weight issues, to whatever. Not being able to remarry is just another thing we will be stuck with.

It may not seem fair at all but if your living this live and only think its worth living if you can marry again, then you may have missed what this life is about. We don't always get what we want. Anyways our life after this goes on forever.... a number of which isn't even possible to post. So if, God forbid, my wife left me, I'd accept I'd be stuck single for the next 40 or so years of my life. Its a small price to pay for eternal happiness.

Now I should point out people often forget about somethings when I say all this. For starters you never know what could happen, maybe your abusive spouse will have a total change (for whatever reason) and get help and become an amazing person. Then you could remarry again. Or maybe your spouse will pass away early and you would be free to marry again since being a widow is the one option that lets you remarry.

Again I know my view is not liked. But it used to be more common until divorce became more and more common place. By that I mean the once married people now suddenly changed their views now that they are divorced. Which lets be honest, we sometimes change our views based on what happens to us. I did it alot through the years. Though I eventually realized I can't twist the Word to fit my current feelings about something. I'm stuck with what God says is the right way.

 

[A71]

If marriage was sacred why did God write divorce laws?
Paul was pretty lukewarm about marriage as he was a realist. It is difficult to have two people equally on fire for God, and furthermore, it is hard to be focussed on God when you are trying to please your spouse.
Paul is quite unequivocal that if it is marriage or ministry that needs to take a back seat, then it is marriage.

Regarding The Sermon on the Mount which people quote as the rationale for chaining women to hot stoves, this is a totally ludicrous example of getting the wrong end of the stick. What Jesus objected to was the legalistic use of the Law to turn women into sex objects. What was happening was the Israelites would marry a woman for a few days or weeks, basically to have her sexually, and then divorce her and pass her on. Jesus was telling them that just being inside the letter of the Law was not ok when they were simply putting women on a sex carousel. I.E love women as people, not as sex objects.

Turning this into a validation for domestic abuse is obscene. Jesus doesn't even mention women in this context. Since Jesus was expounding on Old Covenant Law, presumably the old covenant response to domestic abuse would be for a bunch of blokes to batter the guy the same way he has battered the woman. But we are not under Old Covenant Law, so the simple answer. Divorce, find a loving person, remarry.

 

[All4Christ]

To the OP and anyone reading this who experiences abuse: theology regarding divorce and especially remarriage is secondary to your own safety. Of course, following God’s Word is critical. However, any person being abused by his or her spouse should first pray, make a plan for safety, get to a safe place, take care of children if relevant, get together with a pastor and / or counselor, and once things are under control, the person can approach the concept of marriage, divorce, etc. Getting to safety and getting to a place where that person and family are protected is the priority. All other concepts can follow after that point. Remarriage shouldn’t even be a concept that person is considering when trying to handle an abusive situation. Getting to safety is the first priority. After getting to safety, legally separate if needed, and then consider theological implications of divorce, remarriage, etc.

 

[A71]

I can't agree. When you sign a contract you need to know what you are signing. When you marry, you definitely need to know your rights before you sign on the dotted line. Questions about divorce and remarriage should be clear from the outset.

 

[All4Christ]

I can't agree. When you sign a contract you need to know what you are signing. When you marry, you definitely need to know your rights before you sign on the dotted line. Questions about divorce and remarriage should be clear from the outset.

That’s before the abuse happens (unless it is occurring before marriage). The important advice for this question is what to do at this point of time - when the abuse is happening. I’ll clarify...while the abuse is happening, the most important priority is to get to safety before considering anything else.

When answering this question - we are answering what the abused spouse should do at this point of time, not what they should have done before marriage.

That said - I can’t debate in this forum, so that is all I’ll say directly to you in response to your post.

 

[Poppyseed78]

I find it very cruel to jump straight to "Divorce is a sin" when someone brings up the topic of abuse within marriage. Domestic violence is a crisis situation where ensuring the victim's safety is paramount. Addressing anything other than the victim's safety is quite frankly callous, and saying that divorce is never an option - even in the most heinous cases of abuse - condemns the victim at a time when s/he is at his/her most vulnerable.

Victims need support, information, and the resources to ensure their safety and their children's safety, not judgment and condemnation from others. It's this judgment that actually makes it difficult for victims to reach out for help.

I understand this isn't a debate forum, and no one is going to change their mind on this issue based on what I say anyway. Just my two cents.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

in hope of winning him over with love from Christ?

i recently heard this Christian made this statement.

thanks

I would take that person to the Police to get help.

Paul teaches that husbands are to love their wife as if She were his own body. If he is abusing her, then genuine love is absent. In some areas you can dial 211 to get help. National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1−800−799−7233 or TTY 1−800−787−3224 http://www.thehotline.org

Eph 5
25Husbands, love your wives as Christ loved the church and gave his life for it. 26He did this to make the church holy by cleansing it, washing it using water along with spoken words. 27Then he could present it to himself as a glorious church, without any kind of stain or wrinkle-holy and without faults. 28So husbands must love their wives as they love their own bodies. A man who loves his wife loves himself. 29No one ever hated his own body. Instead, he feeds and takes care of it, as Christ takes care of the church. 30We are parts of his body. 31That's why a man will leave his father and mother and be united with his wife, and the two will be one. 32This is a great mystery. (I'm talking about Christ's relationship to the church.) 33But every husband must love his wife as he loves himself, and wives should respect their husbands.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Interesting how many people have judged that this has to be a situation where a man hits a woman....when no gender was given in the OP......as if it is not likely or possibly for it to be the other way around.

Also interesting how so many people talk about how the word is literal and literally God breathe.....yet find their way out of certain commands when they feel, like it. Jesus said that adultery was the only reason to put one aside......But when it comes to a touchy topic like this, we go by what we feel God would want or what he would allow outside of what he said.


As for me....I would advise the spouse to save themself first, before trying to save the other....

Based on Eph 5 which I quoted today, not this early in the discussion. If one is an abuser the marriage never was vaild or took place in the first place.

25Husbands, love your wives as Christ loved the church and gave his life for it. 26He did this to make the church holy by cleansing it, washing it using water along with spoken words. 27Then he could present it to himself as a glorious church, without any kind of stain or wrinkle-holy and without faults. 28So husbands must love their wives as they love their own bodies. A man who loves his wife loves himself. 29No one ever hated his own body. Instead, he feeds and takes care of it, as Christ takes care of the church. 30We are parts of his body. 31That's why a man will leave his father and mother and be united with his wife, and the two will be one. 32This is a great mystery. (I'm talking about Christ's relationship to the church.) 33But every husband must love his wife as he loves himself, and wives should respect their husbands.

If one is physically abusing the other, there was not a valid marriage in the first place.

Was Sarah’s marriage to Pharaoh valid or invalid?

Matthew 19:6 ESV
So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.”

How does one know for sure, whom God has joined together? And, whom simply choose to be together? If two have relations without a wedding are they joined together by God or Not?

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Gender was given in the OP. "...in hopes of winning him over...".

Still, I made my initial response genderless because yes, abuse can go both ways. Also why I used God's word directly and limited advice to that.

an average, nearly 20 people per minute are physically abused by an intimate partner in the United States. During one year, this equates to more than 10 million women and men.1
1 in 3 women and 1 in 4 men have been victims of [some form of] physical violence by an intimate partner within their lifetime.1
1 in 4 women and 1 in 7 men have been victims of severe physical violence by an intimate partner in their lifetime.1
1 in 7 women and 1 in 18 men have been stalked by an intimate partner during their lifetime to the point in which they felt very fearful or believed that they or someone close to them would be harmed or killed.1
On a typical day, there are more than 20,000 phone calls placed to domestic violence hotlines nationwide.9
The presence of a gun in a domestic violence situation increases the risk of homicide by 500%.10
Intimate partner violence accounts for 15% of all violent crime.2
Women between the ages of 18-24 are most commonly abused by an intimate partner.2
19% of domestic violence involves a weapon.2
Domestic victimization is correlated with a higher rate of depression and suicidal behavior.2
Only 34% of people who are injured by intimate partners receive medical care for their injuries.2
RAPE
1 in 5 women and 1 in 71 men in the United States has been raped in their lifetime.1
Almost half of female (46.7%) and male (44.9%) victims of rape in the United States were raped by an acquaintance. Of these, 45.4% of female rape victims and 29% of male rape victims were raped by an intimate partner.11

NCADV | National Coalition Against Domestic Violence

Odds are a little higher that an abuser is the Man, but both sexes do get abused --- so, you do have a point. I think the media often portrays the person who is abused as the women and children which effects perceptions.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

In the end it really doesn't matter the gender. It would be the same advice. I mean what would be different? You get yourself out of danger first!

Ameno common sense rules.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

At 9:49, in the video below, Smith Wigglesworth has a woman from New Zealand come into the meeting who was regularly beat up by her husband. This man was delivered from his evil by next meeting.

Exactly how is that claim verified and followed up on and by whom?

Why did the Pentecostal Missionary Union ask Smith to resign?
Smith Wigglesworth: Disqualified?Smith Wigglesworth: Disqualified?

Please explain,

quotes:

Wigglesworth prophesied a mighty restoration of the gifts of the Spirit and revival to start before the end of the twentieth Century. He is reputed to have said: ‘Australia you have been chosen by God for a great move of the Holy Spirit. This move of God will be the greatest move of God ever known in mankind’s history and will start towards the end of the 20th century and move into the 21st century. This move of God will start a great revival in Australia, spread throughout the whole world and usher in the second coming of Jesus. This will be the final revival before the coming of the Lord’.(1)

Despite all the wild unsubstantiated healing claims, Wigglesworth’s daughter, who assisted at his meetings, was never
healed of deafness. Wigglesworth also suffered for years with gallstones and later with Sciatica. Much has been written
about this man regarding claims of healings and miracles, but what did this man believe?

http://taministries.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Smith-Wigglesworth-The-Facts-v3.5.pdf

what about these other sick faith healers?
Sick Healers?

I read the book on Smith here,
https://annointing.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/wigglesworth-prayer-power-and-miracles.pdf
It lacks historical varification.

Back to my questions please.

Why did the Pentecostal Missionary Union ask Smith to resign?
"Graham Jeffs, a solicitor from England who is now an elder at St. James Church in Colorado Springs, attended church less than a half-mile from where Wigglesworth lived and preached. He recently gave me copies of the hand written correspondence between Smith Wigglesworth and the leaders of the Pentecostal Missionary Union (PMU) written after Wigglesworth had been accused of misconduct by two separate women at the peak of his ministry career."

Often when alleged claims like that video makes are investigated, the opposite of the claim is the result.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Violence is not a biblical ground for divorce.
The lord says He hates divorce.
The only 2 reasons allowed for divorce is either sexual immorality or if an unbeliever leaves. Even at that, God would prefer if ye stayed and forgave your spouse
Don’t twist scripture just because you think it’s biblical grounds.

Your advise about Christian marriage counseling is correct

It is a common sense grounds for separation to somewhere safe and for turning the abuser over to the Police, Romans 13

 

[Daniel Marsh]

I think as Christians we should do everything we can to save the marriage and have faith that it can be saved. But there comes a time when it becomes obvious that the other person is not sincere even when they agree to counseling and prayer.
True abusers usually do not change their ways and that is just a fact.

I remember a case in the past in CA. The church supported the wife in a temporary separation while the church counseled both of them. Abusers are very good at hiding behind good behavior, even for long periods of time, and the church advised her it was safe to return home with her children. Shortly, they were all killed by the abusive husband.

Bang, you just let him kill her. Read the Stats, I published.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

The violent act wasn't specified, nor the background of the guy, which is why i didn't just jump to conclusions. But I do suggest if it is that, that yes I would encourage her to leave the situation.

Assume the worse and prepare for it, so when it turns out not to be the worse, at least one was prepared to save a life.