statuettes.... Error?!?

[Tyndale]

Tyndale .. didn't I just get through explaining?

Tyndale . .graven images were images of wood, stone or metal that were made to be a god itself . . . and then it was worshipped as if that image, being a god, could answer prayers and that image, being a god, could be appeased. . . ​

Sorry . . but this verse doesn't apply to statues or images in general . . Solomon's Temple was full of images of things in and on the earth and in heaven . . . ​

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There's many a church with statues today, but they don't bow down to them. It doesn't matter how nicely this is packaged, the fact remains Anglicans bow down to carved images of the cross and RC's do likewise to the cross and Mary.

Maybe you don't and maybe them churches make it very clear we don't treat it as a God, so then why bow down to it. It's complete denial of any wrongdoing, when it's plain and simply set out in the bible, what not to do.

 

[Benedicta00]

hello all.

I was waiting for my fiancee to finish getting her hair done, when I came across a place where they were selling statuettes of Mary, Christ, etc...

I ordinarily don't care much about the statuettes... I've seen them before, and RCC believes many things about Mary that I do not, but that is their perogative.

A few left me with a disturbed feeling, however.

For instance:



This statue was titled "Mary instructs Christ." In her hand is a bible.



this one is called "lighting the way."


this one depicts Mary as some kind of warrior. On the chalice, it has JHS... dont' know what that means.

did a count on the statuettes. (the table went around the corner, not pictured.) 3 statuettes of Christ. 2 of Mother Theresa. a dabbling of statuettes of unnamed saints. 58 statuettes of Mary.

Now, whether or not Marian Dogmas of RCC are true or not (I do not wish do debate that.) Even if they ARE true....

does the fact that Marian statuettes out number those of Christ nearly 20 to 1 not speak of the attention given Mary as opposed to Christ?

does the fact that they depict Mary instructing Christ in the scriptures not bug anyone?

The other two photos would require some explaination to me, but they left me feeling oddly bothered.

Another one, not pictured, showed Mary standing on a snake. I know what scripture this is in reference to, but the scripture states
15And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

In which the seed (Christ) would bruise his head (the serpent) NOT Mary.

Perhaps some clarification is in order.

However, I do not want this to turn in to a flame war. Please refrain from doing so.

I simply want to question RCC members on what appears to be error, most tellingly the crushing of the snake, the Mary teaching Christ scripture, and the overwhelming amount of attention paid to Mary in statuettes... as opposed to Jesus.

Any thoughts?

Question uphill, why are you asking this in GT, it seems to me this is a question that should have bee asked in OBOB.

But hey I see crazy stuff all time, seeing where I from and all. You just have to have the brains to discern.

The woman on the snake is valid though. It's the image of the IC and also the image on the miraculous medal.

 

[FrauleinElsa]

There's many a church with statues today, but they don't bow down to them. It doesn't matter how nicely this is packaged, the fact remains Anglicans bow down to carved images of the cross and RC's do likewise to the cross and Mary

That's true they do, which is why I'll be changing my faith icon.

 

[Tyndale]

Even the word worshipped in Hebrew

shachah
shaw-khaw'

means simply in homage to royalty or God:--bow (self) down, crouch, fall down (flat), humbly beseech, do (make) obeisance, do reverence, make to stoop, worship.

 

[thereselittleflower]

That's true they do, which is why I'll be changing my faith icon.

That's too bad, since what we do violates no command of God's. . . . . .

I guess the Japanese and the Chinese better stop bowing to each other when they great one another then too . . .


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[Tyndale]

That's too bad, since what we do violates no command of God's. . . . . .

I guess the Japanese and the Chinese better stop bowing to each other when they great one another then too . . .


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are they carved?

 

[thereselittleflower]

There's many a church with statues today, but they don't bow down to them. It doesn't matter how nicely this is packaged, the fact remains Anglicans bow down to carved images of the cross and RC's do likewise to the cross and Mary.

Maybe you don't and maybe them churches make it very clear we don't treat it as a God, so then why bow down to it. It's complete denial of any wrongdoing, when it's plain and simply set out in the bible, what not to do.

You still have not made your case . . you are judging on superficial appearances . .

You have made absolutely no case that these objects are idols .. ie objects that are gods in and of themselves. . .

Withou that, you have no case . . . and you have no biblical basis on which to criticze our practices . . ..


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[thereselittleflower]

are they carved?

You have not even gotten to first base yet Tyndale . .

You first have to prove that these objects are gods in and of themselves . . . .


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[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by thereselittleflower
That's too bad, since what we do violates no command of God's. . . . . .

I guess the Japanese and the Chinese better stop bowing to each other when they great one another then too . . .

are they carved?

That would be quite a site watching a carved image come alive and start talking. YIKES!!!!

Reve 13:15 He was granted [power] to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed.

 

[thereselittleflower]

I was thinking of that scripture myself too. I know that others will disagree with me and your perfectly free to, but I believe this is what the scripture was referring to. To me, it means any graven image made with hands that you honor, look to, or whatever. That's my personal feelings on it.

Well, then you have a problem as your position contradicts actual law and practice in the ancient Jewish religion . . for they bowed down to the Ark, which is a graven image according to the definitions being bantered about by some protestants in this thread .. .

They bowed down to the brazen serpent . . looking to it even for their salvation from the bites of the firey serpents . . .


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[Tyndale]

You still have not made your case . . you are judging on superficial appearances . .

You have made absolutely no case that these objects are idols .. ie objects that are gods in and of themselves. . .

Withou that, you have no case . . . and you have no biblical basis on which to criticze our practices . . ..

If as you say is right and the image has to be a God, why the need to bow down in the first place?

You can do it if you want, I would rather you wouldn't but that's your call.

God Bless .

 

[thereselittleflower]

If as you say is right and the image has to be a God, why the need to bow down in the first place?

You can do it if you want, I would rather you wouldn't but that's your call.

God Bless .

The scriptures tell us to give honor to whom honor is due . .

What appears to be bowing down to an object is really no such thing . . . we are giving honor to whom the object represents. Honor to whom honor is due . . .


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[IamAdopted]

why do some kiss the feet of the statues? This is not biblical practice or tradtion.. This is tradition of man..

 

[Benedicta00]

riiiight, but teaching Jesus scripture? Come on now....

He allowed such things because this is what made him fully human. he did human things, he subjected himself to being a human.

 

[IamAdopted]

Describe Honor?

 

[IamAdopted]

Read above posts.. Women did not teach children the scriptures.. The fathers did..

 

[Benedicta00]

why do some kiss the feet of the statues? This is not biblical practice or tradtion.. This is tradition of man..

yeah, it is, it;s a little cultural tradition, not sacred Tradition, that does not harm anyone or anything, why put another faith persuasion down for it? that's not biblical either, but yet...

 

[thereselittleflower]

why do some kiss the feet of the statues? This is not biblical practice or tradtion.. This is tradition of man..

Again, we are to give honor to whom honor is due. Any action of honor given to an image of that person is only superficial . . the honor is being given to the one whom that image represents.

There is nothing anti-biblical about it . . .


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[IamAdopted]

You kiss the feet of a carved image of someone and dress them up as a child would dress their dolls and say this is just honor? This statues wear clothes... I mean come on.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Describe Honor?

From the scriptures:

G5092
τιμή
timē
Thayer Definition:
1) a valuing by which the price is fixed

1a) of the price itself
1b) of the price paid or received for a person or thingbought or sold​

2) honour which belongs or is shown to one

2a) of the honour which one has by reason of rank and state of office which he holds
2b) deference, reverence​

Part of Speech: noun feminine
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G5099
Citing in TDNT: 8:169, 1181​

How one expresses such deference and reverence is culturally motivated . . .

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