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Friends, our Lord God and Saviour created the heavens and the earth, what need does he have in earthly things?
Why the need for ritual symbalism?
I don't know that big cross, with Jesus nailed to at the front of the Church not far from here, and many other strikes me as an Icon.
That's a Graven Image.
Jesus is God. You do not make an image of God for that is forbodden.
Much different than decorations in the Temple. Nobody bowed, kissed, or prayed at the decorations feet.
Also, the whole "bowing" thing. It's not bowing it's genuflecting much different than bowing. Genuflecting for those who do not know is bending the knee to the floor or ground in worship.
I've already replied to your post about God ordering Moses and others to make carved images and God gives his reasons to why they should make them. Soloman made carved images on his own accord.
Solomon said in,1 Kings 5 v 5 "And, behold, I purpose to build an house unto the name of the LORD my God"
v 11+12. And the word of the LORD came to Solomon, saying, Concerning this house which thou art in building, if thou wilt walk in my statutes (laws), and execute my judgments, and keep all my commandments to walk in them; then will I perform my word with thee, which I spake unto David thy father. God is concerned Solomon is making his own decisions about worship.
Solomon cried out to God, 8 V 27 "But will God indeed dwell on the earth? behold, the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house that I have builded?" v 35 "When heaven is shut up, and there is no rain, because they have sinned against thee; if they pray toward this place, and confess thy name, and turn from their sin, when thou afflictest them:" v 36 "Then hear thou in heaven, and forgive the sin of thyservants." Solomon asks God to forgive their sins if the confess his name in the building with Graven images.
and God replyed saying, 9 v 3 "And the LORD said unto him, I have heard thy prayer and thy supplication, that thou hast made before me: I have hallowed this house, which thou hast built" v 4 + 5 "And if thou wilt walk before me, as David thy father walked, in integrity of heart, and in uprightness, to do according to all that I have commanded thee, and wilt keep my statutes (laws) and my judgments: Then I will establish the throne of thy kingdom upon Israel for ever" However to those who make bargains with the Lord, like Solomon, the Lord makes conditions
God said, v 6 + 7 "But if ye shall at all turn from following me, ye or your children, and will not keep my commandments and my statutes (laws) which I have set before you, but go and serve other gods, and worship them: Then will I cut off Israel out of the land which I have given them; and this house, which I have hallowed for my name, will I cast out of my sight;"
Notice what Solomon offered to God in Ch 8 v 35, he said, "if they pray toward this place, and confess thy name" CONFESS THY NAME, ONLY GOD'S NAME, not the name of another
WE ALL KNOW THAT SOLOMON EVENTUALLY SINNED AND CONFESSED THE NAMES OF OTHERS AFTER SOLOMON CRIED OUT TO GOD, BUT GOD KNEW SOLOMON WOULD SIN, SIMPLY BECAUSE SOLOMON BUILT THE TEMPLE UNDER HIS OWN PLANS. UNLIKE NOAH, MOSES AND OTHERS SOLOMON WAS WORKING ALONE.
thereselittlefower, does this answer your question? I wonder is there anyone doing a Solomon today without god's instructions?
In the Papal bull for Saint image worship it says the images aren't supposed to be worshipped, it's who they represent, but as I said to therese, lot's of their congregation don't practice this.
We have to understand that man is sinfull and very vulnerable in seeking clarity and proof of God's existence. In the Pagan history of statues and images they were invented because man's inner faith from God was eroding. That holy sparK which was within was gradually eroding and man in his foolish/sinnfull ways thought he could create something to enlighten the spirit of god.
Friends, our Lord God and Saviour created the heavens and the earth, what need does he have in earthly things?
Tydnale, come now . . . you yourself know that Jesus Himself instituted ritual symbolism . . . at least from the Protestant perspective all it is is symbolism .. so let's go with the Protestant perspective for a momment . . .Them shapes are everywhere. The bread at communion is shaped like a sundisk and held aloft like some deity. Why the need for ritual symbalism?
Nope, not at all Tyndale . . for you are totally avoiding the whole point .
2Ch 7:12 And the LORD appeared to Solomon by night, and said unto him, I have heard thy prayer, and have chosen this place to myself for an house of sacrifice.
Hello theselittleflower. You haven't got back to me about my post on Solomon's plea for god to dwell in the santuary he built. Solomon asked God to make his building Holy and cried out "if they pray toward this place, and confess thy name, and turn from their sin,"
God granted his prayer with one condition that Solomon and his generations would uphold God's law, confessing his name only.
Confess (yadah) means literally, to use.
The bread and wine . . .this is My Body, this is My Blood . .do this in remembrance of Me . . .
Obviously, Jesus saw such a need . . .
.
You're leaving the most crucial verses out. Your cutting and pasting the bible to suit Roman Dogma. Please open your eyes. Verse 13 + 14 continue with [13] If I shut up heaven that there be no rain, or if I command the locusts to devour the land, or if I send pestilence among my people;
[14] If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
SEEK MY FACE, CONFESS MY NAME
[/INDENT]
Um . . . no . . God granted Solomon's prayer BEFORE that little discussion between God and Solomon . .
And either you are unintentionally or deliberately missing the point.
This thread is about images . .
Solomon's temple was full of images . . .
God's glory descended on this temple full of images . . .
God was well pleased with this temple full of images . . .
God hallowed this temple full of images . . .
God chose, HIMSELF, as a house of sacrifice, this temple full of images . . .
That is the point.
.
I don't know that big cross, with Jesus nailed to at the front of the Church not far from here, and many other strikes me as an Icon.
That's a Graven Image. Jesus is God. You do not make an image of God for that is forbodden.
Much different than decorations in the Temple. Nobody bowed, kissed, or prayed at the decorations feet.
Also, the whole "bowing" thing. It's not bowing it's genuflecting much different than bowing. Genuflecting for those who do not know is bending the knee to the floor or ground in worship.
And so while some objects and acts were governed strictly, such as the priestly liturgical censers (Leviticus 10:1-10), freedom was given regarding other religious objects and acts.
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