statuettes.... Error?!?

[Uphill Battle]

Uphill I am sure they were not refering to you, your origenal question was ok, did you ever go to a real Catholic bookstore, one connected to a cathedral or mission or catholic school? I really think you should, the place you described seemed a little odd from your description.

I know it wasn't directed at me specifically. Its just an undercurrent to ANY discussion, from what I've seen.

 

[Benedicta00]

There is a catholic poster who has the words (in green) where mine says contributor "Mary sees all and knows all" so some do find her God.

mmmm,k. No, that's not true Howard.

You would be hard pressed to prove to anyone here that any Catholic poster finds Mary to be God.

It may seem that way to you because you do not understand what Marian devotion is all about and I get that because it can look weird from the outside looking in, but my goodness, please just ask us what it's about and please do not accuse anyone of "finding Mary to be God" becuase that is a lie.

 

[Benedicta00]

I can inmaginne Paul's reation seeing peter bowing and praying before a statue? I see no need to do that .We're told to go into our prayer closet..I can't imagine statues in there..

Excuse me, but just where are we told and by whom, to go into a prayer closet?

Are you referring to Jesus saying to shut the door when we pray?

Well, then what are preachers doing on stages praying with and for hundreds of people? Huh???

You know, I'm really over this double standard and this free pass protestants give themselves twist scripture when ever they need to diagree with catholics.

Try playing by your own rules for a change that you try to bind on us and actually support all these crazy claims against the Church using the bible "only."

 

[Benedicta00]

I don't know that big cross, with Jesus nailed to at the front of the Church not far from here, and many other strikes me as an Icon.

That's a Graven Image. Jesus is God. You do not make an image of God for that is forbodden.

Much different than decorations in the Temple. Nobody bowed, kissed, or prayed at the decorations feet.

Also, the whole "bowing" thing. It's not bowing it's genuflecting much different than bowing. Genuflecting for those who do not know is bending the knee to the floor or ground in worship.

denying a image of Jesus is denying the incarnation.

So according to you, if he lived during the time when the camera was invented, we couldn't have taken a picture of him?

You see, here's the problem with all of this line of reasoning.

We are human beings and we need to deal with that. We are touch, smell, sight and sound people. We have far senses and near senses and those are what makes us tick, and God communicates with us as we are, as he made us to be, touchy feely people. We're not angles, we are people.

Making images of holy people we love, who lived and breathed air is a very human thing to do. We do it because we are human -not because we think they are mini gods and we want to worship them.

To prance around pointing fingers of condemnation at catholics and EO for having images of people who lived that are dear to us, is dehumanizing. You are dehumanizing yourself and us.

God knows how humans, he's the one who made us! and humans take comfort in these things, in devotionals.

God knows why we do what we do and there are no such commands against what we do, against being human.

We all surround ourselves with things the we love and things, things that remind us, things that make us feel good.

Y'all do it too, you just don't do it in Church because you imposed some rule on yourself forbidding yourself not to and that makes no sense.

The command that has been so twisted and mangled, simply is to make God your only God and to make him the center of your life. Don't bow down to sex drugs, money, or tiki dolls. Don't bow down to the God of what you want either.

Period, that's it. period.

 

[HisBelovedMelody]

Excuse me, but just where are we told and by whom, to go into a prayer closet?

Are you referring to Jesus saying to shut the door when we pray?

Well, then what are preachers doing on stages praying with and for hundreds of people? Huh???

You know, I'm really over this double standard and this free pass protestants give themselves twist scripture when ever they need to diagree with catholics.

Try playing by your own rules for a change that you try to bind on us and actually support all these crazy claims against the Church using the bible "only."

wow. that is an angry post. How bout when catholics twist scripture. Jesus did say go into the prayer closet and shut the door behind you..in reference to private prayer. SO what if there is a pastor on stage. That isn't private is it?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

wow. that is an angry post. How bout when catholics twist scripture. Jesus did say go into the prayer closet and shut the door behind you..in reference to private prayer. SO what if there is a pastor on stage. That isn't private is it?

Ok, come on brethren, let's calm down. All we need are the Atheists to come over and see us argueing like this.

Btw, on a side note, the Muslims have claimed to have found the preserved body of the Pharaoh who drowned in the Red Sea as told in the Koran.

http://www.christianforums.com/t4790112-quran-and-crucifictionin-egypt-during-moses.html

 

[Tyndale]

Ok, come on brethren, let's calm down. All we need are the Atheists to come over and see us argueing like this.

Btw, on a side note, the Muslims have claimed to have found the preserved body of the Pharaoh who drowned in the Red Sea as told in the Koran.

Don't Care. The Muslims will have difficulty stopping Christ.

 

[Benedicta00]

wow. that is an angry post. How bout when catholics twist scripture. Jesus did say go into the prayer closet and shut the door behind you..in reference to private prayer. SO what if there is a pastor on stage. That isn't private is it?

That's my point- your going to through a verse us when you do the same thing.

And I'm not angry, I'm just over the double standard.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Ok, come on brethren, let's calm down. All we need are the Atheists to come over and see us argueing like this.

Btw, on a side note, the Muslims have claimed to have found the preserved body of the Pharaoh who drowned in the Red Sea as told in the Koran.

Don't Care. The Muslims will have difficulty stopping Christ.

Well, we are getting a little help from the Atheists debating them also LOL. They dislike any religion period.

http://www.christianforums.com/t4605802-all-about-islam.html

Response from Atheist to Muslim:

As near as I can tell, these are mere semantics. You claimed that Islam includes a belief that there is a "God within us," and I simply chimed in that so does Christianity has a pretty much identical belief. On this issue, the two religions merely differ on the characteristics they attribute to their respective deities. They are far more similar, it seems to me, than adherents of either religion are willing to admit.

A protestant Christian, for example, will tell you that Catholics are worshiping false gods when they pray to Mary or the saints. A Catholic might instead say that there is one true God, and these others, while they can hear and answer prayers, are not gods themselves, but just exceptional people who have been given their own responsibilities by God in heaven. God is still placed above them all, and thus there is no idolatry (none of these saints are placed 'before' God).

Similarly, in the doctrine of the trinity, it seems that while no Christian has a coherent explanation for what the trinity means, they seem to believe that they are describing one single deity that has this (paradoxical) attribute of being a trinity. The fact remains that they still consider themselves to be worshiping one single deity.

In the end, these are mere arguments over the meanings of words. I myself see no purpose to such arguments whatsoever, except to show the meaninglessness of religion: if religions can't even properly define that in which they worship, why do they think it exists at all?

 

[HisBelovedMelody]

That's my point- your going to through a verse us when you do the same thing.

And I'm not angry, I'm just over the double standard.

sounds it. I did NOT use a double standard. Just pointed out how angry you sound. If you aren't...well..maybe calm some of the posts down.

 

[Benedicta00]

sounds it. I did NOT use a double standard. Just pointed out how angry you sound. If you aren't...well..maybe calm some of the posts down.

No, it's a double standard.

You guys can hang pictures on the wall, decorate your house with statues, have funeral processions where you go all out adorning the deceased with flowers.

You create road side shrines, adorn the road side with flowers and messages of loved ones who died there. take out adds i the paper on the anniversary of the death.

and you have memorial services with vigils, candles, pictures, flowers, the whole, nine yards but when we do it.. woe, we're idol worshippers.

 

[HisBelovedMelody]

God had alot to say about the golden calf too!

 

[HisBelovedMelody]

what in heavens name are YOU talking about????? I don't DO ANY OF THAT...so watch what you are accusing ME of. Flowers are different than graven images anyway.

 

[Oblio]

God had alot to say about the golden calf too!

The calf was an idol, seen as a god, Saints are not.

non-sequitar

 

[HisBelovedMelody]

Oblio....defend it if you want. They made an 'image'....God didn't like it. I am sure he feels the same about other idols too. NOT just of saints..but how bout idols of our 'religiosity'...defending doctrine and such instead of worshipping him. Idols are ANYTHING we put before God.

 

[HisBelovedMelody]

no, truth. Sorry it goes against the grain.

 

[Rhamiel]

Tyndale I am not faithless,
Judahspraise, this thread has gotten rather heated and that can account for some high tempers over here. Did you see the St.Peter=Jupiter thing yet?

 

[Oblio]

They have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them: they have made them a molten calf, and have worshipped it, and have sacrificed thereunto, and said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which have brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.
(Exodus 32:8 KJVA)

 

[Benedicta00]

what in heavens name are YOU talking about????? I don't DO ANY OF THAT...so watch what you are accusing ME of. Flowers are different than graven images anyway.

Not you personal you, general you.

You have never seen a road side shrine before? It's not aways a catholic who does these things.

And you don't have funerals for people? memorial services where you display the persons picture with flowers and candles?

Why do we do these things? Because this is what human beings do.

It's called honoring the memory of people who are dear to us and there is no command against doing that.

You keep insisting that we make graven images out of stone and worship it or the person it represents as a god and that's' just laughable is what that is.

 

[HisBelovedMelody]

Tyndale I am not faithless,
Judahspraise, this thread has gotten rather heated and that can account for some high tempers over here. Did you see the St.Peter=Jupiter thing yet?

yah, I have been reading through the thread. I can see why people are angry and upset. BUT 1,000's of threads beating the same dead horse. It is getting OLD for everyone. WHY can't we just agree to disagree...and love Jesus the way HE deserves. THIS is doing NO one any good..and NOT pleasing to God.