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Statements About Evolution

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
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By acceding to the advanced level.
Accede: agree to a demand, request, or treaty.

So you're saying you made either a:
  1. Demand on God to let you bypass His fear?
  2. A request to God to let you bypass His fear?
  3. A treaty to God to let you bypass His fear?
Then you "threw Him under the bus" and became an atheist?

I'll ask you again:

Did you skip it, or go through it?
 
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AV1611VET

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Whoa thar ..
Growing up without fear leads to a stunted human?
Psalm 36:1 The transgression of the wicked saith within my heart, that there is no fear of God before his eyes.
 
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Mark Quayle

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I understand and accept the principle here, unless you mean by it something I don't see implied. This is, so far, over a long period of time, selective by the dying out of those who can't reach the higher leaves, variation within the species.


All other things being equal, yes.


Of course.


Obviously


I'm trying to see that, but we aren't talking about airplanes here. We aren't even talking about how the evolution of engineering has produced the winglets.

The problem I see here comes when the basic understanding includes assumptions that are only assertions, from my pov. I don't mind following your narrative, but I can't agree to it all without caveats. You don't need to explain why my caveat is not applicable, but you will sooner or later need to if I am to believe your narrative.


But she's only half-got it?

It's those upturned thumbs. Very attractive and all, but not much use in the kitchen or in the field, unless she is a crossbow hunter. Good thing we have restaurants!

I'm trying to introduce concepts here. It's difficult to understand how these concepts work within the framework of evolution before one understands ALL the concepts of evolution.

The problem with understanding all the concepts of evolution is the acceptance of what look to me like assumptions and/or generalizations taken to be universally specific. I'm, sorry, but I'm skeptical.

For example, when you say those with positive traits are more likely to produce offspring, because they tend to live longer, I'm thinking, "sometimes, maybe". I don't know that their beneficial mutation doesn't usually also accompany other non-beneficial mutations that include maybe sterility etc, or that enough examples with a like mutation will occur to mate with the 'mutated' offspring to produce further generations of offspring of the same sort, nor even that it is by new mutation, as opposed to already existing genetics within the population.

You are correct. When I said they can influence the survival, I meant "how well the individual survives," and that could indeed be a reduction in its chances of survival as you said.


Yeah, of course. You don't need to convince me about that. I know one evolutionist that could benefit from hearing it though, .


Don't worry. I'm not into winged horses. Nor New Jersey devils. In fact, for example, the South Carolina "Lamp Eel" that lives in ditches, that I don't know if it is a fish or what, and breathes air and many of them have little pollywog-looking 'front' legs behind their gills —I don't know if maybe they are a different species of their own, or a link between species, or strangely enough, if there are existing genetics common to many/all creatures to cause such strangenesses to happen and to be reproduced. Anyhow, you don't need to convince me that large changes don't happen suddenly, nor that evolution does not teach such a thing.

Yes, if they can breed, and breed with others with the same genetic trait and so produce offspring with that genetic result. Still sounds like 'within-the-species' to me, but I don't know enough to say it can't happen by mutation.
 
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Kylie

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I understand and accept the principle here, unless you mean by it something I don't see implied. This is, so far, over a long period of time, selective by the dying out of those who can't reach the higher leaves, variation within the species.

That's right. The ones with the genes for the shorter necks are more likely to die out, and the average neck length in the population will increase as a result.

All other things being equal, yes.



Of course.



Obviously




And I will. As I said, I'm first trying to give you an understanding of how it all fits in together. That's what the aeroplane example was about - that it's not a good idea to dive into a detailed explanation of something when an overall understanding is lacking. The overall understanding is needed in order to provide a framework for the details.

But she's only half-got it?

It's those upturned thumbs. Very attractive and all, but not much use in the kitchen or in the field, unless she is a crossbow hunter. Good thing we have restaurants!

I'm not sure what you mean here.

Yes, half of her DNA came from me, but the other half came from her father.


You are correct, and this is where it does get complicated. Like I said, what I'm giving is a basic version of evolution. In reality, any particular trait is controlled by several genes, and any particular gene can influence several different traits. So, eye colour can be controlled by, say, genes A, B, and C, and Gene A can be involved in eye colour, likelihood of developing cataracts, and stamina. So when we look at how a trait affects how well an organism survives, we really should be looking at how the gene itself affects how well the individual survives. We need to take into account all the effects it has. If we give it a score, it might be +3 in one area, but -5 in another area. So even though it conveys an advantage in one way, the net result is overall negative. And it depends on environmental factors as well. If that -5 was a reduced ability to deal with cold, that might spell disaster if it's in a polar bear, but be absolutely meaningless for a lemur living in the tropics.

But for the moment, take it that we are looking at the overall effect.

Yes, if they can breed, and breed with others with the same genetic trait and so produce offspring with that genetic result. Still sounds like 'within-the-species' to me, but I don't know enough to say it can't happen by mutation.

Well, the thing is, the individual doesn't need to breed with another individual that has the same variation in order to pass it on. For instance, I have blue eyes and my husband has brown eyes. Our daughter has brown eyes. That's because she got the brown eyed gene from him. Gregor Mendel did experiments with peas that described this kind of inheritance. Mendelian inheritance - Wikipedia
 
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sjastro

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You do realise that neither the owners nor the builders claimed she was unsinkable, right? Why did people think the Titanic was unsinkable? - Quora
Using a similar form of incoherence AV is renowned for, the Titanic sunk because some inane Protestant painted the anti-Catholic number 3909 04 on the ship (look at the number in the mirror).
God took his retribution against Protestants, so Protestants are to blame for the sinking the ship not the scientists.

Did anti-Catholic sentiment of Titanic workforce help doom the unsinkable ship? | IrishCentral.com
 
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Mark Quayle

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I'm still not following.
Was just trying to be funny. I was pretending the upturned thumbs of your avatar were the mutation you passed down to your daughter, good for some things, but not for others. No big deal.
 
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driewerf

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I will give you my standards:
The reason I think this is because these standards get ridiculed:

1. Bible says x, Science says x = go with x
Don't care about what the bible says, go with x.
2. Bible says x, Science says y = go with x
Don't care about what the bible says, go with y.
3. Bible says x, Science says ø = go with x
Don't care about what the bible says, start research.
4. Bible says ø, Science says x = go with x
Don't care about what the bible says, go with x.
5. Bible says ø, Science says ø = free to speculate on your own
Don't care about what the bible says, start research.
 
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