State of the Dead Thread

[SoldierOfTheKing]

My point is that the passage says that He was buried in the ground, not off in some other spiritual dimension, and the Scripture is pretty clear that He did die.

 

[StormyOne]

My point is that the passage says that He was buried in the ground, not off in some other spiritual dimension, and the Scripture is pretty clear that He did die.

a tomb is not buried in the ground.... and I doubt seriously if those during that time would be able to know the difference between death and other dimensions.... likewise the issue remains, did Jesus God die? Are you saying that God can be killed?

 

[JonMiller]

Well, you have to figure out what death means.

Real death means to me a cessation in this universe. So God could die, but since this universe does not hold Him that wouldn't mean that same as if something else died.

On the other hand, likely what they meant is that His body ceased to function (another definition of death).

JM

 

[Mankin]

He was the Word made flest. Word=cannot be killed flesh=can be killed.

Take away the Word from the flesh(which Jesus did to himself by taking on the sins of man) and death can occur. Also, the OC demanded a sacrifice. If Jesus was not dead, then how could the price be paid?

 

[StormyOne]

who said that the price was death?

 

[Sophia7]

How many among the Progressive SDAs, Moderate SDAs, and Former SDAs here still hold to the SDA teaching on the "state of the dead"? Has your view on this changed any? If not, why not? If so, why and how? What scriptures caused you to change your view if you changed it?

I'm not sure what to think about the "state of the dead" at this point although I'm not at all convinced anymore that the Adventist position is biblical. There are a few texts that seem to refute it, but the one that has made me think about it the most is this one:

Matthew 10:28 "Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."
​

It seems to make a distinction between body and soul that Adventist doctrine doesn't make.

This is an issue that I think is really disputable, and I'm not sure if all of my questions on it can be resolved--at least not until I die or until Jesus comes. The hard thing for me is wondering what to say when my kids ask me what happens when someone dies. All I can do is point them to the resurrection, but I guess that's more important anyway than what happens during the intermediary period.

 

[StormyOne]

right Sophia, which is why I maintain that we really have no idea what happens after a person dies... and I don't expect those who wrote or compiled "the bible" to have a clue either...

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

"Living increases knowledge,
and when you die,
you're dead."

-- Jimmie's Chicken Shack, 1997 e.v.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Your move, Mr. Eko.

 

[StormyOne]

"Living increases knowledge,
and when you die,
you're dead."

-- Jimmie's Chicken Shack, 1997 e.v.

and they would know that how? I am sure before it was understood, some people believed that caterpillars made themselves a cocoon, went inside and died...

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

oh, it bes just a line from a song. nothing more.

moriah would like to die. today works, Lord, if You could possibly arrange it.

 

[StormyOne]

oh, it bes just a line from a song. nothing more.

moriah would like to die. today works, Lord, if You could possibly arrange it.

I figured it was.... and I was just thinking out loud when I responded.... brainstorming as it were, thinking about all possibilities... and I am sure I have left quite a few out...

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

it would be happy to go investigate for you, though it cannot guarantee a return trip.

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

and I doubt seriously if those during that time would be able to know the difference between death and other dimensions

Why not? Why should we know any better today?

likewise the issue remains, did Jesus God die? Are you saying that God can be killed?

That is exactly what I am saying.

It seems to make a distinction between body and soul that Adventist doctrine doesn't make.

It doesn't say that the soul functions apart from the body, let alone that it is immortal, in fact it expressly says that the soul is not immortal. A car battery may be distinct from the car, but it has no function apart from the car.

 

[StormyOne]

Why not? Why should we know any better today?



That is exactly what I am saying.



It doesn't say that the soul functions apart from the body, let alone that it is immortal, in fact it expressly says that the soul is not immortal. A car battery may be distinct from the car, but it has no function apart from the car.

the same reason why we know more about medicine, science, biology, etc... it seems strange to believe that humans can increase their understanding about everything in the world around them except for The Creator...

Jesus God died? The God is not immortal.....

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

Science tells us about creation. The Creator transcends creation.

God is immortal now...

 

[StormyOne]

Science tells us about creation. The Creator transcends creation.

God is immortal now...

so from your viewpoint God is not immortal, which explains why you believe Jesus God died.....

 

[Mankin]

They sacrificed a lamb to symbolize Jesus' sacrifice. Was the lamb dead? Of course! How do you explain this verse.

"The wages of sin is death." If Jesus did indeed pay the price then he had to experience death.

Yet Jesus came back to life. You seem not to understand the verse, "the Word made flesh."

 

[StormyOne]

They sacrificed a lamb to symbolize Jesus' sacrifice. Was the lamb dead? Of course! How do you explain this verse.

"The wages of sin is death." If Jesus did indeed pay the price then he had to experience death.

Yet Jesus came back to life. You seem not to understand the verse, "the Word made flesh."

who says he had to? who said that when they sacrificed a lamb they understood it to be symbolic of some future person and event? We read in retrospect, but there is little indication that during that time they understood what sacrifices were for.... Now, I understand quite well what "the word became flesh" means.... however you aren't dealing with the issue of God being immortal or not.... if Jesus is God, and God is immortal then God cannot die or be killed.... explain that one my young padawan.....

 

[JonMiller]

If you mean disappear from the universe (being the definition of death), than it is perfectly logical that God can die. This of course doesn't mean the same thing as one of us dying, as God is not bound by the universe (in many views of Chrisitanity).

We have things to probe, handles if you will, on biology, physics, etc. We don't have those handles on spiritual things. Since we don't have those handles, we can't use the same techniques to increase our understanding on the subject. We are left with what we are shown...

JM