Starting new job, not sure if its really a good idea

[Photonfanatic]

Hi all. I'm starting a new job, and its my kind of job. No real management, no real pressure. You go based on your own sales, each sale is roughly $100k. Somewhere in that area. So you can see that the commissions would be somewhat high. One of the sales people told me that he made $100k last year, and his goal for this year is $200k. The reason I'm saying all this is because I'm trying to convey that its an opportunity that is very difficult to turn down. And I need the money.

I'm currently just an engineering student, and the laid back nature of the job appeals to me as a student. I can work part time, and earn enough money to live on. All the while, going to school. And on top of that, its working with old friends of mine, whom I know very well. 4 of them. So the comfort level is very high.

The problem is, they're quite... debauched. They're all my age, early 30's. The main 2 guys are single and unmarried and frequent night clubs to hit on women and drink. They're philanderers, as far as I can tell. I think that (though I can't be sure) that drugs may get used from time to time. I'm happily married and do not want to get into all of that stuff. For obvious moral reasons and other reasons as well. But its obvious from their lifestyle and the things that they buy that they make plenty of money, and they want me to be one of them.

I have been on 4 training days with them so far, and each day ended at some bar. I told them that it can't continue, that I'm married and this is definitely NOT going to fly with my wife. They have both been married before, and I'm beginning to have an understanding as to why their marriages might have ended. The actual owner of the company, an old and dear friend of mine, is one of these guys. I'm always with him training and he is always training me and trying to spend too much money on me, which I try to turn down. The sales people just "sell" the jobs to his company for a high commission to the owner.

I hope I am painting a good picture here. They have this lifestyle, that is opposite mine. I try to live in a Christian way and have a good relationship with God. Their lifestyle is no way to do that. And frankly they are going to constantly be pressuring me to come and be with them, to hang out with them and go and partake of the activities that they like to do. I have no problem being with them but its what they want to do that bothers me. Do you think that I could still work there and just constantly blow them off when they ask me to come and do things? Such as go to the bar, go skydiving, etc etc etc? The skydiving may be ok but man I just don't want to do that. Also its just going to lead back to the bars and restaurants anyway, several states away, far away from my wife. I don't like the implications at all. Thoughts? Opinions?

 

[Nithavela]

Just do the job, decline the offers you oppose, take the money home and enjoy your wealth with your wife (while also giving to those less fortunate than you). Sounds like the most christian thing to do.

Or is the situation thus that you just can't evade them or decline?

 

[Photonfanatic]

The problem is my wife is a Nurse who works nights, and they know that. They know I have nothing to go home to but television and the computer. So they will always be pressuring me and likely never let up. And these times during training that they have succeeded in getting me to go with them, under the guise of "business", they'll count as successes. I've been around this type of thing before and got away from it. But I had to distance myself from the people completely. So I have doubts as to my ability to even work there, and still be able to maintain a good and just lifestyle.

I could evade and decline, I suppose. But it will be difficult and remember these are old friends of mine whom I love. Telling a boss or co-workers no might be easy most of the time, but constantly telling people you love no, is going to be another matter. I know they don't live the way I do but I still love them.

Its always someone's birthday, its always some reason to celebrate, its always some is having a hard time with something and needs a drink. And what kind of friend are you to not go with them and be with them in their times of celebration, or in need? You see what I'm getting at here.

 

[Senator Cheese]

1.) Make sure this isn't a scam. Read the work contract carefully and see to it that it's fool-proof. I'm not sure on the legal situation in the US, but I don't know whether or not they could try to cheat you out of your money by signing sales under their name (and thereby taking in the commission).
The reason I'm kind of doubting their story is that they seem to have loose morals combined with the fact that the job description really does sound too good to be true. Making 200,000$ a year part time as a student (without qualifications)? Most people with a full academic degree don't even make that kind of money.

2.) If it isn't a scam, then figure out whether or not you are strong enough to tag along without breaking the promises you make to yourself. Being in a bar (or even strip club for that matter) isn't a problem (in my opinion) if you're honest with yourself and your wife in all regards. Or does it make that much of a difference where you have your beer?

3.) If it isn't a scam and you can't promise yourself not to break any morals or rules or disappoint your wife, then you can still ask to keep things to a professional relationship and kindly tell them that you won't partake in after-work parties of any kind.
Ephesians 6:10-18 - The Armor of God - Finally, be strong - Bible Gateway

Blessings

 

[Autumnleaf]

My uncle had a job like that selling condos in Florida. Condos that were 'being built'. Get in on the ground floor before its too late!!

He figured out it was a scam and got out of that job. He ended up running nursing homes and making decent money at it.

Look into the finances of what is going on to see if you are scamming people.

As for going out, I know a Christian guy who is a straight arrow in a debauched work environment. One of the bosses told him that he is the only one in the office who he trusts... because he is a Christian (and he lives like it).

 

[Nithavela]

On second though, this does sound a bit fishy, yes..

 

[Photonfanatic]

As for going out, I know a Christian guy who is a straight arrow in a debauched work environment. One of the bosses told him that he is the only one in the office who he trusts... because he is a Christian (and he lives like it).

That is a good way to describe it. A debauched work environment. That is exactly what it is.

However it seems like I should have been more clear on one aspect. To me at least, it doesn't really smell like a scam. What they are doing is going around and looking for metal roofs, that have hail damage. They go to the door and talk to the homeowner, and see if they can schedule an inspection of the roof. If the homeowner agrees, they will inspect the roof and look for hail damage. If the damage meets the criteria for insurance funded replacement, the next job of the salesman is to talk the homeowner into filing a claim.

In my state it is illegal for an insurance company to raise your rates, or drop you, based on a claim filed for an act of God. They consider the hail damage an act of God. And the new roofs look nicer than the old ones, which the homeowners like. Its a lot like hail dents in a car. If they told you you could get them all out at no real cost to you, (or a very small deductible given the cost of the whole job) then you just might take them up on it.

As for the money, I have no illusions that I could make that kind of money. Well not at this anyway. And as far as I know, no one at the company has made $200k in one year. I was saying that it was merely the goal of one salesman to do so. He said in his first year, he was still a noob so he only made about $50k. But in his second year, he was able to pull off $100k. In his third, his goal is to make $200k. That is just a goal. You have to keep in mind these roofs are extremely expensive, at least in my view. From what I can tell the average cost is somewhere in the $90k-$100k range. They have 2 in the works right now that are in that range. So I don't think I smell scam, just yet. I will keep my eye open for it though, and if I even catch a hint of scam, I'm not doing it. I will have no part of such a thing.

 

[FuzzyBunnySlippers]

This is my take. You work with these people, you're good at your job, you make your living, you go to school.
If their lifestyle is in your judgment debauched, and you're opposed to that as a Christian, why would you 'end the day at some bar' with them?

Go to work, call it a day, and go your separate ways. If you're asking us, who don't know you, what we think of this, how is it you as a Christian don't know the answer in your own spirit?

If you don't approve of their behavior why would you accompany them so as to witness and judge it and then ask us what you should do about having to see that?

Do your job.
Go home.

You work with them. Keep it business.

 

[Nithavela]

Also, you wrote that these are your friends, and while they try to pull you down to their level of debauchery (at least in your opinion) and might even damage your relationship with your wife, you still love them.

Well, here's a bible quote for that. Matthew 5

27“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’e 28But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Just stick to professional relations and go home when they go party. It doesn't seem hard to me.

Take me for example... I never engage in after work activities. Obviously for other reasons then you off course, lol. But the reasons don't matter.

My reasons are quite simply a very strict policy of keep "work" and "private" seperate. I don't want to take my job home and I don't want to take my home to my job.

My friends, wife and family are my private life.
My collegues, partners, customers etc are my working life.

I draw a very clear line between both and make extra effort not to merge the two.

As a result, my collegues can go party all they want. If it happens after-hours, I won't be joining. Sure, they nag me as well to join them once. I just tell them "no" and remain immune to peer pressure.

Seriously, it's not hard. Nore is it a problem.

 

[Deidre32]

Money comes and goes...your wife is forever. I wouldn't do anything that would jeopardize that relationship. If these guys expect you to do things you're not comfortable with, you should look for another job. Frankly, if it illegal however to pressure employees to drink and carry on at bars, hitting on women. lol I marvel at how some people get to where they are as managers.

 

[DogmaHunter]

If these guys expect you to do things you're not comfortable with, you should look for another job.

What's wrong with simply not joining and going home instead?

I marvel at how some people get to where they are as managers.

Managers aren't allowed to have fun in a way as they see fit?

 

[Paradoxum]

I don't really understand the problem? Going to a bar isn't immoral from a Christian point of view. If you don't like bars, then wouldn't get the picture after a while... if you say it just isn't your thing really.

 

[selfinflikted]

"Hey guys, I really appreciate the invitations to all these after work activities, but the simple fact is - I love you guys, but I don't want to go 'round hanging out in bars, getting drunk, or doing god knows what else. I'm a family man now and a Christian, so please don't take it the wrong way if I say I feel that I have to decline further invitations. I hope you guys understand."

Easy peasy.

So many issues between people - whether it be friends, couples, or married individuals - could so easily be solved if people would just communicate. I cannot understand why people don't understand this, nor do I understand why it seems so hard for some people to just talk and tell the truth.

 

[FreeSpirit74]

I'm actually more concerned about this part:

No real management, no real pressure. You go based on your own sales, each sale is roughly $100k. Somewhere in that area. So you can see that the commissions would be somewhat high. One of the sales people told me that he made $100k last year, and his goal for this year is $200k.

It sounds like a scam to me, not a legitimate job. Would you be working for an actual, legit company, or would you be considered self-employed?

 

[keith99]

The Kingdom is to be in the midst of your enemies. And he who will not suffer this does not want to be of the Kingdom of Christ; he wants to be among friends, to sit among roses and lilies, not with the bad people but the devout people. O you blasphemers and betrayers of Christ! If Christ had done what you are doing, who would ever have been spared?

Martin Luther

So what is the problem with taking this job, it puts you in a perfect place to be a light on a hill rather than under a bushel basket!

However there is a good reason for caution. Look at a key line in the Lord's Prayer, 'and lead me not into temptation'.

Time to examine you motives. If it is you don't want to get dirty being near sinners, this is nothing of Christ. If instead you realize it puts you in the path of temptation then you rightly need to avoid it.

This is all assuming the business itself is legit.

 

[High Fidelity]

I doubt very much you will enjoy it and you will likely be put in a lot of awkward scenarios.

By all means take the job, earn some money and see how things go. The worst that could happen is you find yourself back where you are now, presumably without a job.

P.S. Are you into photonics?

 

[Photonfanatic]

I don't really understand the problem? Going to a bar isn't immoral from a Christian point of view. If you don't like bars, then wouldn't get the picture after a while... if you say it just isn't your thing really.

True, actually going to a bar isn't immoral. Its what is done once one is inside, that is. Typically. I guess I could sit there and not drink and stuff, but the music is always deafening. But then there's all the women. They think just cause you're at a bar you must be there to... well to be part of the meat market. Cause lets face it that's all those places really are. And these are my old, dear friends. I thought perhaps I could influence them in some way and get them to abandon their debauched lifestyle. Some of them already lean towards doing it, and lean towards the light. They just might need that push over the edge to change their ways. As for the bars though, yeah they really aren't my thing.

Never have been, I never could see the appeal. Deafening music isn't really my style. Crowds really aren't my style.

P.S. Are you into photonics?

Yeah I love photonics as I love all the sciences. However, I picked the name because a photon is sort of a light particle. You know, the light. The good, the right, God, etc etc. All that stuff. I'm a fan of the light. Sounded clever at the time lol

 

[Paradoxum]

True, actually going to a bar isn't immoral. Its what is done once one is inside, that is. Typically. I guess I could sit there and not drink and stuff, but the music is always deafening.

But you wouldn't be doing stuff you consider immoral. Fair enough if you don't like loud music or much alcohol though.

But then there's all the women. They think just cause you're at a bar you must be there to... well to be part of the meat market. Cause lets face it that's all those places really are.

You have women throwing themselves at you, trying to get you to 'sin'? Potentially a problem I suppose, but you can say no.

I don't agree bars are 'meat markets' though. That's unfair and insulting in many ways. I go to bars/ pubs/ clubs mostly to socialize, drink, dance, and have fun. It really isn't about sex, if that's what you mean. Of course a date can come from meeting someone, but a potential relationship is more than meat.

Even if some people just want to have sex, it's still more than 'meat'. They are still a person, and I find that a strange way to think of sex... even one night stands.

I'm not bashing you for using that phrase... I'm just saying I don't think it makes sense...

And these are my old, dear friends. I thought perhaps I could influence them in some way and get them to abandon their debauched lifestyle. Some of them already lean towards doing it, and lean towards the light. They just might need that push over the edge to change their ways. As for the bars though, yeah they really aren't my thing.

I don't think it's necessarily wrong, but we'll probably just have to agree to disagree on that.

Never have been, I never could see the appeal. Deafening music isn't really my style. Crowds really aren't my style.

Deafening music isn't good, but music, drink and friends, are good in my opinion. If that isn't what someone's into though, that's good too.

 

[DaisyDay]

I don't really understand the problem? Going to a bar isn't immoral from a Christian point of view. If you don't like bars, then wouldn't get the picture after a while... if you say it just isn't your thing really.

Loneliness and boredom - with a bit of greed thrown in? The wife works the night shift so no one is home in the evening - I take it, no kids. The bar sounds like particular kind of bar - not a place for conversation with friends. Could there be exotic dancers there?