Stand Fast and Hold the Traditions

[Standing Up]

From scripture:

2 Thes. 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Around GT, the often asked and never answered question is TO WHAT ORAL or WRITTEN TRADITIONS IS PAUL REFERRING?

We know it was traditions extant at the time of Paul and not later ones.
We know the statement was never intended as some blank check for unscrupulous men to take advantage, introducing heresy and schism.

As such, to what traditions was Paul referring? Here is an answer to the question about 150 years later from Irenaeus (bolding mine).

2. To which course many nations of those barbarians who believe in Christ do assent, having salvation written in their hearts by the Spirit, without paper or ink, and, carefully preserving the ancient tradition, believing in one God, the Creator of heaven and earth, and all things therein, by means of Christ Jesus, the Son of God; who, because of His surpassing love towards His creation, condescended to be born of the virgin, He Himself uniting man through Himself to God, and having suffered under Pontius Pilate, and rising again, and having been received up in splendour, shall come in glory, the Saviour of those who are saved, and the Judge of those who are judged, and sending into eternal fire those who transform the truth, and despise His Father and His advent. Those who, in the absence of written documents, have believed this faith, are barbarians, so far as regards our language; but as regards doctrine, manner, and tenor of life, they are, because of faith, very wise indeed; and they do please God,
ANF01. The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus - Christian Classics Ethereal Library

So, when someone says we should hold fast to traditions whether written (scripture) or spoken (oral) and the question comes up, what traditions are those? The answer is essentially akin to the Nicene Creed. Or as Irenaeus outlined it, here are the unwritten ancient apostolic traditions.

I believe in one God, the creater of heaven and earth and all things
by means of Christ Jesus, the son of God
who loves His creation and so
condescended to be born of a virgin
uniting man to God through himself
He suffered under Pontius Pilate
rose again
ascended
will return
the Saviour of the saved and the Judge of the judged
sending to hell those who transform truth, despise the Father, and His Son.

Those are the only oral traditions Irenaeus refers. They are salvific. It is the same message, whether written or spoken to which we hold because the apostles had spread the Good News to Jew, Gentile, and Barbarian with and without paper. These oral traditions are, of course, now all found for everyone in written tradition, aka canonized scripture.

There is, therefore, no such thing as, nor support for, any future so-called Traditions. They may exist today, but not back in the very early days of the Church. As such, these new Traditions are not binding. Paul didn't have any of them in mind, nor was he giving permission for future bishops to make claims about their beliefs.

Lastly, this also now means, scripture alone is the rule of faith, confirming in each direction the written and unwritten traditions at that apostolic period.

Always nice when scripture and early Christian tradition come together. So, stand fast and hold to the traditions whether written or spoken.

 

[Forge3]

Ok

 

[sculleywr]

reposting this here for reference:

Do you wish to know the early Church's teaching about Tradition?

Papias

Whenever anyone came my way, who had been a follower of my seniors, I would ask for the accounts of our seniors: What did Andrew or Peter say? Or Phillip or Thomas or James or John or Matthew, or any of the Lord’s disciples? I also asked: What did Aristion and John the Presbyter, disciples of the Lord say. For, as I see it, it is not so much from books as from the living and permanent voice that I must draw profit (The Sayings of the Lord [between A.D. 115 and 140] as recorded by Eusebius, Ecclesiastical History, 3:39 [A.D. 325]).

Irenaeus

For even creation reveals Him who formed it, and the very work made suggests Him who made it, and the world manifests Him who ordered it. The Universal [Catholic] Church, moreover, through the whole world, has received this tradition from the Apostles (Against Heresies 2:9 [A.D. 189]).

True knowledge is the doctrine of the Apostles, and the ancient constitution of the Church throughout all the world, and the distinctive manifestation of the body of Christ according to the successions of the bishops, by which they have handed down that Church which exists in every place, and has come even unto us, being guarded and preserved, without any forging of Scriptures, by a very complete system of doctrine, and neither addition nor curtailment [in truths which she believes]; and [it consists in] reading [the Word of God] without falsification, and a lawful and diligent exposition in harmony with the Scriptures, both without danger and without blasphemy… (ibid. 4:33 [A.D. 189]).

Tertullian

For wherever both the true Christian rule and faith shall be shown to be, there will be the true Scriptures, and the true expositions, of all the true Christian traditions (The Prescription of Heretics 19 [A.D. 200]).

Origen

Seeing there are many who think they hold the opinions of Christ, and yet some of these think differently from their predecessors, yet as the teaching of the Church, transmitted in orderly succession from the Apostles, and remaining in the churches to the present day, is still preserved, that alone is to be accepted as truth which differs in no respect from ecclesiastical and apostolic tradition (On First Principles Bk. 1 Preface 2 [circa A.D. 225]).

Eusebius

While [Ignatius of Antioch] was making the journey through Asia under the strictest military guard, he strengthened the diocese in each city where he stayed by spoken sermons and exhortations, and he especially exhorted them above all to be on their guard against the heresies which then for the first time were prevalent and he urged them to hold fast to the tradition of the Apostles to which he thought it necessary, for securities sake, to give form by written testimony (Ecclesiastical History, 3:36 [A.D. 325]).

Athanasius

Without prefixing Consulate, month, and day, [the Fathers] wrote concerning Easter, "It seemed good as follows," for it did then seem good that there should be a general compliance; but about the faith they wrote not, "It seemed good" but, "Thus believes the Catholic Church"; and thereupon they confessed how they believed, in order to show that their own sentiments were not novel, but Apostolic; and what they wrote down was no discovery of theirs, but is the same as was taught by the Apostles (Letter on the Councils of Ariminum and Seleucia [A.D. 359]).

Basil (My patron Saint)

Of the beliefs and practices whether generally accepted or publicly enjoined which are preserved in the Church some we possess derived from written teaching; others we have received delivered to us "in mystery" by the tradition of the Apostles; and both of these in relation to true religion have the same force. And these no one will contradict; - no one, at all events, who is even moderately versed in the institutions of the Church. For were we to attempt to reject such customs as have no written authority, on the ground that the importance they possess is small, we should unintentionally injure the Gospel in these matters… (On the Holy Spirit 27 [A.D. 375]).

Jerome

Don’t you know that the laying on of hands after baptism and then the invocation of the Holy Sirit is a custom of the Churches? Do you demand Scripture proof? You may find it in the Acts of the Apostles. And even if it did not rest on the authority of Scripture the consensus of the whole world in this respect would have the force of a command. For many other observances of the Churches, which are do to tradition, have acquired the authority of the written law (The Dialogue Against the Luciferians 8 [A.D. 382]).

John Chrysostom

"So then brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word, or by epistle of ours" (2 Thessalonians 2:15). Hence it is manifest, that they did not deliver all things by epistle, but many things also unwritten, and in like manner both the one and the other are worthy of credit. Therefore let us think the tradition of the Church also worthy of credit. It is a tradition, seek no farther (Homilies on Second Thessalonians [circa A.D. 400]).

Vincent of Lerins

I have often then inquired earnestly and attentively of very many men eminent for sanctity and learning, how and by what sure and so to speak universal rule I may be able to distinguish the truth of Catholic faith from the falsehood of heretical pravity; and I have always, and in almost every instance, received an answer to this effect: That whether I or any one else should wish to detect the frauds and avoid the snares of heretics as they rise, and to continue sound and complete in the Catholic faith, we must, the Lord helping, fortify our own belief n two ways: first, by the authority of the Divine Law, and then, by the Tradition of the Catholic Church (Commonitory 2 [A.D. 434])

Theodoret

I have ever kept the faith of the Apostles undefiled… So have I learnt not only from the Apostles and the Prophets but also from the interpreters of their writings, Ignatius, Eustathius, Athanasius, Basil, Gregory, John, and the rest of the lights of the world; and before these from the holy Fathers in council at Nicaea, whose confession of the faith I preserve in its integrity, like an ancestral inheritance [styling corrupt and enemies of the truth all who dare to transgress its decrees] (Letters no. 89 [circa A.D. 443]).

 

[sculleywr]

The assumption that all the Traditions of the Apostles, which includes everything Christ taught them, could be contained in one book is not only ludicrous, but also a violation of Scripture itself:

And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.
John 21:25

 

[Forge3]

The assumption that all the Traditions of the Apostles, which includes everything Christ taught them, could be contained in one book is not only ludicrous, but also a violation of Scripture itself:

And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.
John 21:25

The Lord loves you. Yes His Word cannot be contained in one book.

 

[sculleywr]

The Lord loves you. Yes His Word cannot be contained in one book.

Exactly. The assumption that is can is ludicrous

 

[Forge3]

Exactly. The assumption that it can is ludicrous

I know

 

[Mediaeval]

There are other apostolic traditions that have been perpetuated in the Church from the beginning, perhaps liturgical worship, making the sign of the cross, infant baptism, paedocommunion, communion in both kinds for the laity, anointing with oil at baptism, among said traditions.

The problem with extra-Biblical traditions, though, is that we do not have the words of Jesus or an apostle infallibly telling us they are true or, even if true, binding upon the faithful. We hear of these traditions from fallible men, whose words cannot be accepted uncritically, just because they say so. Therefore we have no choice but always to appeal to the infallible Word of God preserved in the Scriptures to verify what they say. I love the pope and Orthodox bishops, but there is no infallibly recorded promise of infallibility given to post-apostolic bishops or councils.

 

[weariedsoul]

The assumption that all the Traditions of the Apostles, which includes everything Christ taught them, could be contained in one book is not only ludicrous, but also a violation of Scripture itself:

And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.
John 21:25

Yes but all that Jesus commanded the disciples to teach us to observe is found in their writings.


Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

 

[Forge3]

Yes but all that Jesus commanded the disciples to teach us to observe is found in their writings.


Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

He is perservering in love.

 

[sculleywr]

There are other apostolic traditions that have been perpetuated in the Church from the beginning, perhaps liturgical worship, making the sign of the cross, infant baptism, paedocommunion, communion in both kinds for the laity, anointing with oil at baptism, among said traditions.

The problem with extra-Biblical traditions, though, is that we do not have the words of Jesus or an apostle infallibly telling us they are true or, even if true, binding upon the faithful. We hear of these traditions from fallible men, whose words cannot be accepted uncritically, just because they say so. Therefore we have no choice but always to appeal to the infallible Word of God preserved in the Scriptures to verify what they say. I love the pope and Orthodox bishops, but there is no infallibly recorded promise of infallibility given to post-apostolic bishops or councils.

The problems with the doctrine of inerrant scripture is that there is no inerrant scripture available. Every translation is corrupted with variants, mistakes, and in some (extreme) cases, outright fabrications.

The Word of God, however, was NEVER a book, never became a book, and never will be a book. The book of the Bible is not the Word of God, but only the words of God. It is not truly known apart from the body of Christ, which is a Church unified in doctrine and practice.

 

[Forge3]

I say to you now. Not of words to milk the sacred cow. But I am His servant in the here and now. His Word for you as a heavenly plow. To clear the table and raise your brow. I am one of the last of his preachers. That you should surrender to Him through His teachers. ignore my words for they are not my own. They are are the very love of God enthroned. We will all die and pass on someday. Leave behind us His words of love with disarray.

His Word among you through compassion. To seal our thoughts with every action. I am!

 

[weariedsoul]

The problems with the doctrine of inerrant scripture is that there is no inerrant scripture available. Every translation is corrupted with variants, mistakes, and in some (extreme) cases, outright fabrications.

The Word of God, however, was NEVER a book, never became a book, and never will be a book. The book of the Bible is not the Word of God, but only the words of God. It is not truly known apart from the body of Christ, which is a Church unified in doctrine and practice.

A few scriptures to consider.


1Co 14:36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?
1Co 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.


Joh 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Joh 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
Joh 14:25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

2Ti 3:14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
2Ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.


Eph_6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

Joh_6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Luk 11:28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.

Joh_8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

 

[Forge3]

A few scriptures to consider.


1Co 14:36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?
1Co 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.


Joh 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Joh 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
Joh 14:25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

2Ti 3:14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
2Ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.


Eph_6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

Joh_6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Luk 11:28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.

Joh_8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

God bless you freind.

 

[weariedsoul]

God bless you freind.

Thank you. God bless us all brother, we need it. We are all a blessing to each other actually. All things work for our good. Thanks again.

 

[Forge3]

Thank you. God bless us all brother, we need it. We are all a blessing to each other actually. All things work for our good. Thanks again.

I tarry while I grow weary (soul). I am His prophet. But of prophecies I will not speak. As if to impart His strength among the meek.

 

[weariedsoul]

I tarry while I grow weary (soul). I am His prophet. But of prophecies I will not speak. As if to impart His strength among the meek.

Your poetry is nice too.

 

[sculleywr]

A few scriptures to consider.


1Co 14:36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?
1Co 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.


Joh 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Joh 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
Joh 14:25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

2Ti 3:14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
2Ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.


Eph_6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

Joh_6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Luk 11:28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.

Joh_8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

You assume that every Greek word has a single meaning. However, that is not true. Logos (Word), was used in several ways. In the case of referring to Scripture, it does not use terms that indicate ultimate Authority. In fact, separated from Christ's Church, the words of the Scripture have no one concrete meaning. If they did, then it would be a simple matter of intellectual honesty to find the truth.

As to the identification of the Tradition which is there, I will break it down to the simplest that I can:

The identification of the nature of God in His three Persons, the Church, the resurrection of the dead, and the eternal Kingdom, as explained most succinctly in the Nicene Creed, is the foundation of every Tradition and understanding of Scripture. The Creed is the number one tool with which to interpret the Scriptures, because it forms the foundational teaching and understanding of the greatest part of Scripture: Christ. The teachings of the Creed, while put into one statement for the first time at Nicaea, resonate with the original teachings and explanations of the early Church. With the exception of the phrase "of one essence with the Father", the Creed is entirely based on a proper understanding of Scripture directly sourced from Scripture. "Of one essence" is an additional explanation that was only added after great debate due to the multiple attempts to only use Scriptural explanations. The extra-scriptural explanation was used because unlike the Scriptural explanations, the phrase "of one essence" was something that Arius and his followers were unable to twist and misconstrue. The filioque was an addition that was only truly accepted in the West. However, prior to its acceptance, the pope of Rome said it was not an acceptable addition, upholding the authority of the 1st Council of Constantinople when the Council said that no changes may be introduced to the Creed without the word of a council. Multiple councils were held prior to the attempted addition, and all of which a pope had words in came out in favor of the original.

The dual natures and wills of Christ (Human and divine).

Christ was human, and thus a depiction of Him could be made. As Christ was and is God, a depiction of God could be made by depicting Christ. (Iconography)

Liturgy stems from the early Jewish services, prior to and during the time of Christ. So liturgical were they that James compiled the first liturgy.

There are others, but I believe that these tend to talk about the most important.

 

[weariedsoul]

You assume that every Greek word has a single meaning. However, that is not true. Logos (Word), was used in several ways. In the case of referring to Scripture, it does not use terms that indicate ultimate Authority. In fact, separated from Christ's Church, the words of the Scripture have no one concrete meaning. If they did, then it would be a simple matter of intellectual honesty to find the truth.

As to the identification of the Tradition which is there, I will break it down to the simplest that I can:

The identification of the nature of God in His three Persons, the Church, the resurrection of the dead, and the eternal Kingdom, as explained most succinctly in the Nicene Creed, is the foundation of every Tradition and understanding of Scripture. The Creed is the number one tool with which to interpret the Scriptures, because it forms the foundational teaching and understanding of the greatest part of Scripture: Christ. The teachings of the Creed, while put into one statement for the first time at Nicaea, resonate with the original teachings and explanations of the early Church. With the exception of the phrase "of one essence with the Father", the Creed is entirely based on a proper understanding of Scripture directly sourced from Scripture. "Of one essence" is an additional explanation that was only added after great debate due to the multiple attempts to only use Scriptural explanations. The extra-scriptural explanation was used because unlike the Scriptural explanations, the phrase "of one essence" was something that Arius and his followers were unable to twist and misconstrue. The filioque was an addition that was only truly accepted in the West. However, prior to its acceptance, the pope of Rome said it was not an acceptable addition, upholding the authority of the 1st Council of Constantinople when the Council said that no changes may be introduced to the Creed without the word of a council. Multiple councils were held prior to the attempted addition, and all of which a pope had words in came out in favor of the original.

The dual natures and wills of Christ (Human and divine).

Christ was human, and thus a depiction of Him could be made. As Christ was and is God, a depiction of God could be made by depicting Christ. (Iconography)

Liturgy stems from the early Jewish services, prior to and during the time of Christ. So liturgical were they that James compiled the first liturgy.

There are others, but I believe that these tend to talk about the most important.

None of that matters to me, its just not important. Its a useless debate, totally unedifying and unprofitable. The HOly spirit reminds us of all the Jesus spoke, its the same with all scripture that the apostles gave us. If you think you are a prophet then by all means acknowledge that the things paul teaches are the commandments of Christ. Teach the word instead of discrediting it with unprofitable debates over words that change nothing the scriptures say about the words of Christ being the word of God.

 

[sculleywr]

None of that matters to me, its just not important. Its a useless debate, totally unedifying and unprofitable. The HOly spirit reminds us of all the Jesus spoke, its the same with all scripture that the apostles gave us. If you think you are a prophet then by all means acknowledge that the things paul teaches are the commandments of Christ. Teach the word instead of discrediting it.

I never did discredit it. It is part of Tradition, and in fact is the hub of the Tradition. It sits in the center of the wheel and the rest of Tradition roots therein.