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  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Staff and Member discussion thread.

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Yahudim

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This is a great day in the Lord, Monday, 3-26-2012. We're going to do good things today and get a lot accomplished. I am looking forward to taking with all of you, staff and members and the work we will do together. God bless you.
Sorry Brother, but I'll be under my van with wrench in hand for most of the day. But I'll check in from time to time.
 
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Avodat

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No Brother,

Not your comments. The whole reaction to the debate thing. Thought that was apparent from my comments. Sorry for the confusion.

OK, that makes more sense! Thanks, it was just that your post popped up immediately after mine - had it appeared just before it would have read better but that is the luck of the draw when we post almost at the same time. No problem
 
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Qnts2

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*Labels or name calling

  • Non Jew
  • Two house
  • One law
  • Gracer
I like your debate rules, but for labels....

Gentile means not Jewish or non-Jew. From experience on other forums, it becomes necessary to define Gentile. Or Goy or goyim. There tends to be confusion in these areas.

Two House (aka Ephraimite) is a theology which Messianic Judaism strongly opposes. It is also a topic discussed within Messianic Judaism. Two House proponents call themselves Two House, Ephraimites, Restoration of Israel. When referencing the beliefs of Two House theology, what are we to call it, if mentioning Two House is considered of labels of name calling?

The same issue with One Law theology. One Law theology is a theology opposed by Messianic Judaism.

The issue here is these are theologies which do not mix with Messianic Judaism. Messianic Judaism has taken strong stands against these two theologies. So, to mix theologies opposed by Messianic Judaism, within Messianic Judaism, would cause issues. It would be something like not allowing Baptists to oppose paedo-baptism (infant baptism) or call the doctrine paedo-baptism or infant baptism labeling or name calling.
 
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Chaplain David

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RELATED QUESTIONS:

Hello, I have heard Goy and Goyim used as a put downs. I have also heard it used nicely as meaning non-Jewish. How can we insure that they are only used properly and not as put-downs? Would using "non-Jewish" be best to use instead?

Shalom

Sacerdote
 
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Qnts2

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Goy and Goyim in Hebrew means Nation and Nations.

Goy and Goyim in Yiddish mean Gentile and Gentiles. However, in Yiddish, Goy or Goyim can be used as derogatory terms also. When used in a derogatory manner, they don't really mean simply Not Jewish. When used in a sentence, for me, it is easy to tell the difference. There are standard expressions or inflections which denote the difference.

But, since Goy and Goyim are valid biblical Hebrew terms, I wouldn't want to consign these words to put downs, as that would be saying that the words God used must not be used as sinful humans have turned them into negative terms.

I have no issue with non-Jewish. The word 'Jew' is used by anti-semites in a derogatory way. By itself, Jew, is not a bad term but anti-semities don't use it positively. Anti-semites almost never use the term Jewish.

I usually recommend that Gentiles not use the term 'Jew'. It can be misunderstood.
 
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Chaplain David

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Very enlightening explanations. Thank you.

Shalom

David
 
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Tishri1

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No I wouldn't use a single letter

The tag would say what I posted earlier
 
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Henaynei

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Like in real estate they say Location, Location, Location. With Goy or Goyim it is Context, Context, Context. Remember, we've all also heard Black, Jew, White all used as epithets. In our little community here senders Must be mindful of the receivers.

Goy actually means nation, and Goyim nations. While must often used to denote non-Jewish nation or nations, Israel is called Goy throughout scripture.

b'Shalom {iPod touch w/CF app}
 
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Tishri1

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Thank you Mark

I know this looks long don't worry we will squeeze it down a bit later, first we need to get everything we need into it though
 
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Lulav

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Watch your thoughts; they become words.

Watch your words; they become actions.

Watch your actions; they become habits.

Watch your habits; they become character.

Watch your character; it becomes your destiny.
- - Frank Outlaw
 
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Lulav

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Henaynei has exceeded their stored private messages quota and cannot accept further messages until they clear some space.:o
 
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Henaynei

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MarkR said:
*Labels or name calling
Non Jew
Two house
One law

Gracer


off topic /no debate topics
Kosher diet
MJ observance of torah

Who is MJ enough
Trinity

I think this is a bit too restrictive.

Non Jew - nothing wrong with this - textural context would make or break it in a post
Two house - One law - both are heresy according to MJism - as such being able to identify them is crucial in "preserving the faith" - However, using them as epithets is not

Kosher diet - Observance of Torah - both of these are integral to the practice of MJism for most, but not all, Messianics. To remove them would be akin to telling one of the other faith fora they could not discuss Baptism or Communion.

b'Shalom {iPod touch w/CF app}
 
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Henaynei

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Lulav said:
Henaynei has exceeded their stored private messages quota and cannot accept further messages until they clear some space.:o

try again

b'Shalom {iPod touch w/CF app}
 
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anisavta

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Labels are labels. It doesn't matter how we define them. To label each other for the purpose of putting someone in their place should not be acceptable.
And again Messianic Judaism can be defined by many people in many ways. To say, "this opposes Messianic Judiasm" for one is not opposition for another.
I think we've defined Messianic Judaism back many pages ago.
 
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Qnts2

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I'll have to disagree. The main Messianic Judaism organizations have written position papers against these theologies. To ignore the position of Messianic Judaism is to try to alter what Messianic Judaism stands for, but the position of Messianic Judaism stands.

In religions, theologies have names as abbreviations and in the religious world, using the theological terminology is acceptable. The work done in this area by knowledgable studied theologians is for the benefit of all. To study, learn the theological system and the name of the theology is not negatively 'labeling', it is education in the religious sciences.

Messianic Judaism also opposes Replacement theology, and Dual Covenant theology. If a person proposes Replacement theology, and tries to claim it as a belief of Messianic Judaism, they would be wrong as that is a theology consistantly renounced in Messianic Judaism.

Another belief Messianic Judaism consistently teaches against is the belief that a Jewish person ceases to be Jewish when they accept Yeshua.

If we all agreed that a Jewish person ceases to be Jewish when they accept Yeshua, and say that is Messianic Judaism, we would be wrong, as Messianic Judaism organizations would renounce that belief. Just because we would agree, does not make it a doctrine of Messianic Judaism. (And I do agree with Messianic Judaism that a Jewish person who believes on Jesus, is Jewish).
 
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Tishri1

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I think that's doable

Thoughts everyone?
 
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Tishri1

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You have? I haven't really noticed it.

About what? I responded a while back to something you misunderstood about a post...but that's about all.

I think you missed my response...and no, I'm just fine.
Maybe I did can you repost?
 
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Tishri1

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This is a great day in the Lord, Monday, 3-26-2012. We're going to do good things today and get a lot accomplished. I am looking forward to taking with all of you, staff and members and the work we will do together. God bless you.
God bless you too David

I think that the whole essence is all should stay away from telling one whether or not they should or must keep the commandments. In my experience this is what Messianic does and leadership that I know stays out of these types of issues it seems.
I agree this is one of the main issues
 
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