(St)? Paul (Pavel) Florensky?

[Orthodox Andrew]

Could somebody tell me about him? I have read some bios on the net about Fr. Paul Florensky, but they don't explain why he is controversial? Or what is the Orthodox understanding of this Priest who from what I gather, is a martyr?

P.S. I wrote St in brackets and with a question mark, because I can't find an answer to whether he is considered a Saint or not. However at St. Herman Press, I noticed that they refer to him as St. Paul Florensky. http://www.stherman.com/catalog/chapter_seven/salt_book.htm

 

[walking.away.123]

That is interesting that St. Herman's Press would call him a saint, they were once ROCOR and ROCOR specifically claimed they did not venerate him as a saint. He is listed on an icon as a martyer but ROCOR has said that it was an annoying error. That's in the article on http://www.orthodoxwiki.org though you said you'd already looked the net.
The controversy is that he, along with Fr. Sergi Bulgakov, were proponants of the theological idea known as Sofiology (not sure of the spelling). Sofia is the divine wisom of God, and has always been thought to be associated with Jesus. For instance, the Church of Hagia Sophia was dedicated to Christ. The Sophiologist wrote that it is a principal of the whole Trinity. One especially controversial point is that it is defined as a female principle. I don't think it was ever declared heretical officially, Fr. Sergi Bulgakov, in fact was put on trial for heresy but was found to be orthodox. He was even defended by his critics, well known theologians like Vladimir Losskey.
So, though Fr. Pavel Florensky did die in the Soviet persecutions of Orthodox Christians, not everyone, maybe hardly anyone, recognizes him as a saint because of some of his writings.
A lot of people misunderstand Sophiology, thinking it is a modern attempt to feminize God. The 'father' of Sophiology was a Russian philosopher named Soloviyev (sp?) who often described it poetically and perhaps went to far. The modern theologian Philip Sherrard was influenced heavily by the idea and explained it very well within the context of Orthodox theology, as did Fr. Sergi Bulgakov. It will remain to be seen if it is accepted or regected, or just falls by the wayside like some other controversial subjects (see the divine name controversy).
Russians find such interesting stuff to argue about. All the Greeks have is the calender.

 

[choirfiend]

Russians find such interesting stuff to argue about. All the Greeks have is the calender.

MwahHAHAHAHHA!

 

[walking.away.123]

MwahHAHAHAHHA!

I mean theologically, of course.


I wonder what other people think about this subject. Has anyone ever heard your priest say anything about it? Sophiology I mean. I thought it was a dead issue in the Orthodox Church until I read Phillip Sherrard's book on sacredness: Human Image: World Image, which I would recomened to anyone, though I'd highly recommend talking to your priest about it first. It only just mentions Sophiological ideas at the end, but it is all leading up to that, I think. It was, at least, never called unorthodox.

 

[Orthodox Andrew]

That is interesting that St. Herman's Press would call him a saint, they were once ROCOR and ROCOR specifically claimed they did not venerate him as a saint. He is listed on an icon as a martyer but ROCOR has said that it was an annoying error. That's in the article on http://www.orthodoxwiki.org though you said you'd already looked the net.
The controversy is that he, along with Fr. Sergi Bulgakov, were proponants of the theological idea known as Sofiology (not sure of the spelling). Sofia is the divine wisom of God, and has always been thought to be associated with Jesus. For instance, the Church of Hagia Sophia was dedicated to Christ. The Sophiologist wrote that it is a principal of the whole Trinity. One especially controversial point is that it is defined as a female principle. I don't think it was ever declared heretical officially, Fr. Sergi Bulgakov, in fact was put on trial for heresy but was found to be orthodox. He was even defended by his critics, well known theologians like Vladimir Losskey.
So, though Fr. Pavel Florensky did die in the Soviet persecutions of Orthodox Christians, not everyone, maybe hardly anyone, recognizes him as a saint because of some of his writings.
A lot of people misunderstand Sophiology, thinking it is a modern attempt to feminize God. The 'father' of Sophiology was a Russian philosopher named Soloviyev (sp?) who often described it poetically and perhaps went to far. The modern theologian Philip Sherrard was influenced heavily by the idea and explained it very well within the context of Orthodox theology, as did Fr. Sergi Bulgakov. It will remain to be seen if it is accepted or regected, or just falls by the wayside like some other controversial subjects (see the divine name controversy).
Russians find such interesting stuff to argue about. All the Greeks have is the calender.

Thanks for that! It was helpful. I guess I will have to get to the bottom of what exactly sophiology is? And exactly what Fr. Paul Florensky's take on it was?

 

[walking.away.123]

Thanks for that! It was helpful. I guess I will have to get to the bottom of what exactly sophiology is? And exactly what Fr. Paul Florensky's take on it was?

It is something I might investigate later, under the advisement of my priest. But for where I am now I think it is better to ground myself in the patristic teachings of the church so I can be better discering of these things.

 

[jckstraw72]

i read that both ROCOR and the MP condemned sophiology as a heresy...not sure where I read htat though. Lossky gives a good refutation of it in his Mystical Theology of the Eastern Church.

 

[Grigorii]

I mean theologically, of course.


I wonder what other people think about this subject.

Hmm,.. the clearest way to express my take on it would be to say the following; I am a sophiologist.

Has anyone ever heard your priest say anything about it? Sophiology I mean.

Well,.. Fr. Michael Plekon (author of: Living Icons and Tradition Alive) is much involved in sophiology and has been very encouraging to me. Fr. Michael Meerson has also written on the subject without naming it by name in his The Trinity of Love. There are also good articles available by Paul Gavrilyuk (an Orthodox theologian) that critically engage Fr. Bulgakov's sophiology. Gavrilyuk both appreciates and critiques at the same time (one of these articles is available for free online at the Bulgakov Society webpage).

I thought it was a dead issue in the Orthodox Church until I read Phillip Sherrard's book on sacredness: Human Image: World Image, which I would recomened to anyone, though I'd highly recommend talking to your priest about it first. It only just mentions Sophiological ideas at the end, but it is all leading up to that, I think. It was, at least, never called unorthodox.

The problem I have with Phillip Sherrard though,.. he bought into the Sufi-mystical thought of Fritjof Schuon in his later years. Schuon's mystical school is variously known as Traditionalism (though in NO way traditional) or Perennial Philosophy. It holds that Absolute Truth is exoterically revealed in a few world religions (Christianity, Hinduism, Islam and a few others) but esoterically all these religions are one and the same. So that a Hindu and an Orthodox, (perennialists don't usually like RCC and Prot-ism) Christian appear to worship different gods on the exoteric level, but on a higher level (the esoteric level) they worship one and the same being. Granted, Schuon uses a lot of Wisdom terminology and he also uses a lot of Orthodox liturgical resources (especially concerning the Theotokos), but he is neither an Orthodox sophiologist, nor a Christian.

Gregorios

 

[walking.away.123]

I've never studied much about Schuon, though I am familiar with Traditionalism. I'm not sure exactly how Sherrard 'bought' into it thought because nothing he said ever denied that Orthodoxy had the whole truth, not just that we worshiped the correct divinity. He in everything I've read or heard him say he's maintained Christ is the incarnation of all truth and even explained his theology in terms of the 7 Councils.

I might check out some of the books and articles you mentioned, but as I said I prefer to ground myself on what I know to be solid before trying to figure out if what is questionable is truely Orthoodox or not. I'll leave that to those wiser than me, and there are many on both sides of the issue.