St. Paul Demonstrating Sola Scriptura In Scripture

[Standing Up]

Jesus speaks here of those things,

Luke 24:25-27 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?

Peter speaks here of those things

Acts 3:18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.

Paul speaks here of those things

Acts 26:23 That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

I didn't get further than "O fools".

 

[Standing Up]

What's been demonstrated is that Scripture is very important to the Church, as a source of revelation, as God's Word, and that a third party, an agent designated by and guided by God, is critical in understanding and explaining it.

Just for more grins. Find where Christ referred to Tradition...

 

[Standing Up]

True. But ya gotta admit Paul did suffer a lot after his conversion to Jesus.
[I wonder where Christianity would be w/o my bro, Saul/Paul]

Acts 9:
15 But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen instrument of Mine, to bear My name before the Gentiles and kings and the sons of Israel;
16 for I will show him how much he must suffer for My name's sake."

2Corin 11:24
23 Are they servants of Christ?-- I speak as if insane--
I more so; in far more labors, in far more imprisonments, beaten times without number, often in danger of death.
24 Five times I received from the Jews thirty-nine lashes.
25 Three times I was beaten with rods, once I was stoned, three times I was shipwrecked, a night and a day I have spent in the deep.…
26 I have been on frequent journeys, in dangers from rivers, dangers from robbers, dangers from my countrymen, dangers from the Gentiles, dangers in the city, dangers in the wilderness, dangers on the sea, dangers among false brethren
27 I have been in labor and hardship, through many sleepless nights, in hunger and thirst, often without food, in cold and exposure
28 Apart from such external things, there is the daily pressure on me of concern for all the churches



.

Where would the virgin conception and bearing be without Mary?

 

[Standing Up]

But SS allows for the "not yet scripture" of Jesus' own words. SS does not limit the source of the truth to be tested against scripture.
SS simply iterates that scripture is the measure of Christian truth.

Yeah, we're still not quite there.

 

[Standing Up]

Then he told them, 'This is what I meant when I said, while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the Law of Moses, in the Prophets and in the Psalms, was destined to be fulfilled.' He then opened their minds to understand the scriptures, and he said to them, 'So it is written that the Christ would suffer and on the third day rise from the dead, and that, in his name, repentance for the forgiveness of sins would be preached to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem. You are witnesses to this.
(Luke 24:44-48 NJB)

The passage that you quoted is addressed to the apostles many years before saint Paul had his Damascus Road vision of the Lord Jesus Christ. Did you not notice that the passage is not about saint Paul?​

So you're thinking Christ wasn't the model for Paul. Par for your course.

 

[Fireinfolding]

I didn't get further than "O fools".

I wouldn't know where to go "after that"

(Oopsy?)

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I didn't get further than "O fools".

Guess it is best to be poor and wise, than rich and foolish ehehe

Luke 12:20
But God said unto him, "Thou fool! this night thy soul shall be required of thee:
then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?"

.

 

[ivebeenshown]

But SS allows for the "not yet scripture" of Jesus' own words. SS does not limit the source of the truth to be tested against scripture.
SS simply iterates that scripture is the measure of Christian truth.

And what is the measure of Scripture, or to what authority do we refer in order to rightly determine what constitutes the compilation of writings to be considered as Scripture?

 

[MoreCoffee]

So you're thinking Christ wasn't the model for Paul. Par for your course.

If you really want to throw around character slurs then I'll stop responding to your posts.

 

[MoreCoffee]

And what is the measure of Scripture, or to what authority do we refer in order to rightly determine what constitutes the compilation of writings to be considered as Scripture?

Obviously we go to his holiness the pope, and to church councils, and we avoid the rebellious folk who set up their sects in the 16th century as well as all the new sects that have arisen since then.

 

[Standing Up]

MC: Where does holy scripture say that saint Paul read the old testament to learn about Jesus Christ? I think you made that up.

Did you get an answer?

If you really want to throw around character slurs then I'll stop responding to your posts.

My apologies. I should have added a question mark.

 

[Rick Otto]

And what is the measure of Scripture, or to what authority do we refer in order to rightly determine what constitutes the compilation of writings to be considered as Scripture?

That is a subject for another thread.

 

[BobRyan]

MoreCoffee said: ↑
Where does holy scripture say that saint Paul read the old testament to learn about Jesus Christ? I think you made that up.
I think there there's a failure to understand Christ who said
And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Does a fear of SS keep you from reading these things?

Christ - is the Greek for the OT - Messiah - obviously Saul - the Pharisee -- was reading 'scripture'. And that includes Paul the Christian.


As it turns out - Paul was a student of the scriptures and this is reported about his teaching over and over again.

Those who think Paul was not studying scripture may speculate that point for us - but it only survives to a certain point.

until you read Acts 17:1-5.

until you read Acts 18:1-6

until you read how Paul the "messianic Jew" - made his case for the gospel and testified under oath as to his actual practice.


Acts 21
24 take them and purify yourself along with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads; and all will know that there is nothing to the things which they have been told about you, but that you yourself also walk orderly, keeping the Law

Acts 24
14But this I confess to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect, so I worship the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets


Acts 25
8 while he answered for himself, “Neither against the law of the Jews, nor against the temple, nor against Caesar have I offended in anything at all.;


Acts 26
Therefore, having obtained help from God, to this day I stand, witnessing both to small and great, saying no other things than those which the prophets and Moses said would come; 23 that the Christ would suffer, that He would be the first to rise from the dead, and would proclaim light to the Jewish people and to the Gentiles;

Acts 28
17 And it came to pass after three days that Paul called the leaders of the Jews together. So when they had come together, he said to them: Men and brethren, though I have done nothing against our people or the customs of our fathers, yet I was delivered as a prisoner from Jerusalem into the hands of the Romans,... I have called for you, to see you and speak with you, because for the hope of Israel I am bound with this chain.
...
23 So when they had appointed him a day, many came to him at his lodging, to whom he explained and solemnly testified of the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus from both the Law of Moses and the Prophets, from morning till evening

Then he told them, 'This is what I meant when I said, while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the Law of Moses, in the Prophets and in the Psalms, was destined to be fulfilled.' He then opened their minds to understand the scriptures, and he said to them, 'So it is written that the Christ would suffer and on the third day rise from the dead, and that, in his name, repentance for the forgiveness of sins would be preached to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem. You are witnesses to this.
(Luke 24:44-48 NJB)

The passage that you quoted is addressed to the apostles many years before saint Paul had his Damascus Road vision of the Lord Jesus Christ. Did you not notice that the passage is not about saint Paul?​

the passage was written for the church to study and read - many years AFTER the resurrection of Christ.

Matt 28
18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.

hence... "the Gospel accounts"

Where Jesus uses scripture to hammer the traditions and doctrines of church leadership in Mark 7:6-13.

And where - in Luke 24 Jesus goes way out of his way to "appear as a stranger" so that the disciples had no other source than testing the statements "sola scriptura" -- statements of the "stranger" walking with them.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Paul as a Jew had the hand me down traditions downs of his fathers as he says here

Gal 1:14 And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.

Paul (former Pharisee) was more exceedingly zealous of these

Mat 15:3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?

They would transgress the commandment by their tradition

Which is commandment is shown in the next verse

Mat 15:4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother:

Mat 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Then in Mark

Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

 

[ivebeenshown]

That is a subject for another thread.

Why? If this thread is indeed about the claim that Paul was supporting "Sola Scriptura", then it is entirely relevant to discuss the ramifications of that claim, one of which is that in order to refer to Scripture as a measure of doctrine, one must have some other measure to refer to in order to identify what constitutes Scripture. This is surely not Scripture itself, ergo the full measure of doctrine is not defined by Scripture alone, but by Scripture in addition to that which defines the compilation of writings we know as Scripture.

 

[Standing Up]

And what is the measure of Scripture, or to what authority do we refer in order to rightly determine what constitutes the compilation of writings to be considered as Scripture?

Sola scriptura (Latin ablative, "by Scripture alone") is the Christian doctrine that the Bible is the supreme authority in all matters of doctrine and practice.

Nothing there about what makes up scripture or who the interpreter is. It is simply that the bible is the supreme authority.

 

[ivebeenshown]

Sola scriptura (Latin ablative, "by Scripture alone") is the Christian doctrine that the Bible is the supreme authority in all matters of doctrine and practice.

Nothing there about what makes up scripture or who the interpreter is. It is simply that the bible is the supreme authority.

One cannot regard the bible as a supreme authority without knowing what the bible is or where it came from.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

ivebeenshown said: ↑
And what is the measure of Scripture, or to what authority do we refer in order to rightly determine what constitutes the compilation of writings to be considered as Scripture?

Sola scriptura (Latin ablative, "by Scripture alone") is the Christian doctrine that the Bible is the supreme authority in all matters of doctrine and practice.

Nothing there about what makes up scripture or who the interpreter is. It is simply that the bible is the supreme authority.

I seem to recollect a thread on on that topic:

http://www.christianforums.com/threads/scripture-as-my-measure.7246132/#post-47313200
Scripture as my measure

A conversation was derailing another thread and so
I'm moving the discussion here.
We're discussing using Scripture as a measuring tool.
We're not calling this practice by any formal name,
just it is what it is, using Scripture to measure.
Here's how the conversation began:

I measure everything against Scripture, to the best of
my ability anyhow.
What would be a better measuring tool in your opinion?

sunlover

.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

One cannot regard the bible as a supreme authority without knowing what the bible is or where it came from.

Was it not as it pertains to Christ in the bible that any and all decisions were made as to the authenticity of the writings?

 

[ivebeenshown]

Was it not as it pertains to Christ in the bible that any and all decisions were made as to the authenticity of the writings?

Was it not a tradition that defined what the Old Testament consisted of, before it was used to discern Christ among its prophecies?