St. Paul Demonstrating Sola Scriptura In Scripture

[Standing Up]

Amen brother! What an excellent post!

Keep preaching the Scriptures! It is written....



Yes, they do tend to resort to the Early Church Fathers in their attempts to justify and validate the extra-biblical doctrines and beliefs they hold, such as praying to Mary and to the saints in Heaven, purgatory, Mary being sinless and a perpetual virgin, the papacy, and the list goes on and on. It is rather ironic when both claim to be the one and only "true" Church, descending from the Apostles. It is sad how so many professing Christians choose to place their church traditions and doctrines above the Holy Scriptures. This practice is more prevalent when their traditions and doctrines clearly contradict what is written in the Holy Scriptures.

Yes and if we investigate those things, we find those types of traditions developed later and apart from apostles and even first tradition mention! The very tradition they like contradicts them.

Anyway, back to the OP. Don't want to derail into a later tradition is True thread

 

[whitetiger1]

.

That's why I remain here to fight the spam!

 

[3rdHeaven]

Amen brother! What an excellent post!

Keep preaching the Scriptures! It is written....



Yes, they do tend to resort to the Early Church Fathers in their attempts to justify and validate the extra-biblical doctrines and beliefs they hold, such as praying to Mary and to the saints in Heaven, purgatory, Mary being sinless and a perpetual virgin, the papacy, and the list goes on and on. It is rather ironic when both claim to be the one and only "true" Church, descending from the Apostles. It is sad how so many professing Christians choose to place their church traditions and doctrines above the Holy Scriptures. This practice is more prevalent when their traditions and doctrines clearly contradict what is written in the Holy Scriptures.

Nothing new under the sun, Jeremiah had to warn people to stop praying to the Queen of Heaven, their argument was that was tradition! Seems like tradition can get in the way some times.

Jer 44:17
But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for then had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil. (KJV)

 

[Whisper of Hope]

The real problem though is you're accepting a passage that does not deal with all scriptures but only the OT. I already corrected this before but it was ignored.

It's almost a process: misquote, ignore rebuttal, repeat misquote. Then it occasionally works when people such as your good self simply accept that misquote.

That's why I remain here to fight the spam!

Here's where I last noted what Irenaus was actually talking about

http://www.christianforums.com/t7621785-7/#post59495166

You may note that it really wasn't that long ago

You corrected it? OK. I'm curious as to why you think I should take your word on this and accept your personal interpretation and understanding of God's Word as solid, biblical truth. May I ask, what authority do you have in telling me how to understand God's Word? Did you receive a special anointing from God which enabled you to better understand and know the Scriptures more accurately than the Holy Spirit does? Do you know and understand the things of God better than He does? Are you more capable than He to interpret God's Word for me and then teach me what it truly says? If your answer is no to all the above questions I asked, then I choose to take God at His word, believing and trusting that His Word is infallible and inerrant (since He does not change or lie) and it will not return to Him in void, over anything you or anyone else has to say to the contrary. In other words, I will not accept and I will ignore your personal interpretation of Scripture and disregard anything you have to say that is contrary to what has been written in the Scriptures. I trust God, not you.

 

[SolomonVII]

You corrected it? OK. I'm curious as to why you think I should take your word on this and accept your personal interpretation and understanding of God's Word as solid, biblical truth. May I ask, what authority do you have in telling me how to understand God's Word? Did you receive a special anointing from God which enabled you to better understand and know the Scriptures more accurately than the Holy Spirit does? Do you know and understand the things of God better than He does? Are you more capable than He to interpret God's Word for me and then teach me what it truly says? If your answer is no to all the above questions I asked, then I choose to take God at His word, believing and trusting that His Word is infallible and inerrant (since He does not change or lie) and it will not return to Him in void, over anything you or anyone else has to say to the contrary. In other words, I will not accept and I will ignore your personal interpretation of Scripture and disregard anything you have to say that is contrary to what has been written in the Scriptures. I trust God, not you.

Well I can't speak for Montalban, but I certainly would commend you for holding the bible as a higher authority than any of my theological ideas.

 

[Montalban]

You corrected it? OK. I'm curious as to why you think I should take your word on this

Don't. But don't just swallow any spam someone else gives you either.

Test it. Read the passages quoted. I went out of my way to refer you back to the posts where I cited this.

I could, as others do, simply infer that there was evidence out there somewhere, placed there at some other time.

My concern was that you simply accepted the 'evidence' presented by one person, and note that it has been addressed, but my rebuttal was not dealt with.

May I ask, what authority do you have in telling me how to understand God's Word?

I'm not asking you to.

I'm asking you to understand the quote given – the point was there had been a claim that Irenaeus was supporting sola scriptura

The rest of your post continues to miss this point.

 

[Montalban]

Well I can't speak for Montalban, but I certainly would commend you for holding the bible as a higher authority than any of my theological ideas.

Unfortunately this still relies on your interpretation, so it's really your authority in another guise.

 

[3rdHeaven]

Everyone's invited to my place this weekend. We will be sacrificing a calf, drinking the blood, burning some incense and top it off by praying to some dead people later!

 

[Montalban]

Everyone's invited to my place this weekend. We will be sacrificing a calf, drinking the blood, burning some incense and top it off by praying to some dead people later!

Hopefully your slaves will be well-behaved!

 

[OpenDoor]

It actullay doesn't say they did there it just said he searched the OT

What is your/your churches understanding of, "they received the message with great eagerness"?

 

[OpenDoor]

In Acts they don't seem to

Some of the Jews were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, as did a large number of God-fearing Greeks and quite a few prominent women. But other Jews were jealous...
Acts 17:4-5

So some yes, others no.

 

[OpenDoor]

Unfortunately this still relies on your interpretation, so it's really your authority in another guise.

Honest exegesis shouldn't.

exegesis: critical explanation or analysis of a text

vs

eisegesis: the interpretation of a text, using one's own ideas

 

[Standing Up]

Irenaeus:
1. We have learned from none others the plan of our salvation, than from those through whom the Gospel has come down to us, which they did at one time proclaim in public, and, at a later period, by the will of God, handed down to us in the Scriptures, to be the ground and pillar of our faith.

It's a clash for groups who like tradition "alone" to find out tradition supports scripture "alone" as the ground and pillar of our faith.

 

[whitetiger1]

What is your/your churches understanding of, "they received the message with great eagerness"?

Just what it says Everything St. Paul told them they could find illusions to in the Torah

 

[whitetiger1]

Irenaeus:
1. We have learned from none others the plan of our salvation, than from those through whom the Gospel has come down to us, which they did at one time proclaim in public, and, at a later period, by the will of God, handed down to us in the Scriptures, to be the ground and pillar of our faith.

It's a clash for groups who like tradition "alone" to find out tradition supports scripture "alone" as the ground and pillar of our faith.

You are grossly misrepresenting other Christians, we use Scripture and Tradition. You guys want to go it "alone"

 

[Standing Up]

You are grossly misrepresenting other Christians, we use Scripture and Tradition. You guys want to go it "alone"

I know groups use both, didn't say they don't. Frankly, I try to use both too. In fact the very early church did also. They tried to trace proposed beliefs back to apostles. If they didn't find a connection or if they found the belief arose later, then they rejected it.

Since we know scripture says it's sufficient for salvation, then it's always nice to find early tradition that says the same. Don't you agree with scripture and tradition?

 

[whitetiger1]

I know groups use both, didn't say they don't. Frankly, I try to use both too. In fact the very early church did also. They tried to trace proposed beliefs back to apostles. If they didn't find a connection or if they found the belief arose later, then they rejected it.

Since we know scripture says it's sufficient for salvation, then it's always nice to find early tradition that says the same. Don't you agree with scripture and tradition?

Not your version, you pick when it' convenient only to try to prove an erroneous doctrine I accept the Church that Christ founded

 

[OpenDoor]

Just what it says

So they received the message (and examined the Scriptures).

As a result, many of them believed, as did also a number of prominent Greek women and many Greek men.
Acts 17:12

 

[whitetiger1]

So they received the message (and examined the Scriptures).

As a result, many of them believed, as did also a number of prominent Greek women and many Greek men.
Acts 17:12

That does not demonstrate Scripture alone, they didn't abandon what they knew and just look at a book. At a certain point they had to step out in faith now that they knew the first lined up. Scripture alone has never been used in historic Christianity

 

[Montalban]

Some of the Jews were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, as did a large number of God-fearing Greeks and quite a few prominent women. But other Jews were jealous...
Acts 17:4-5

So some yes, others no.

So scripture was not enough to swing it for some!