St. Paul Demonstrating Sola Scriptura In Scripture

[OpenDoor]

Did the Thessalonians also adhere to sola scriptura?

They adhered to Pauls writings...

 

[patience7]

Where?

Acts 17:11,12a These were more noble than those in Thessalonica in that they received the word with all readiness of mind and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. Therefore many of them believed.

 

[Sieben]

Acts 17:11,12a These were more noble than those in Thessalonica in that they received the word with all readiness of mind and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. Therefore many of them believed.

Sounds reasonable to search scripture to find out whether things are true. Blind belief is tiring to me

 

[whitetiger1]

According to Acts.

It actullay doesn't say they did there it just said he searched the OT

 

[Whisper of Hope]

Makes me wonder why some hate the Word of God and would rather follow the traditions of men.

Not that there is any thing wrong with tradition, as long as it is backed by scripture. It should never trump scripture!

I agree. I think it's very sad to see the divinely inspired words of God Himself trampled on in threads like these. It's bad enough to see such a travesty done in the non-Christian forums, even if we can expect unbelievers to demean, ridicule, and outright deny the authority of God's Word. However, it's even worse to see such a travesty done in forums where people profess to be Christian. That is something we should not have to expect from professing Christians. How incredibly insulting and upsetting it must be to God to have some of His own children not believe Him and take Him at His word. It also must be very hurtful to Him that some of His own children do not trust Him enough to believe Him and take Him at His word. It is written in the Scriptures that God does not change nor does He lie. I sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that is true, but apparently not every professing Christian does. But how they cannot is simply beyond me. If a professing Christian does not believe and fully trust in what God has had written in the Scriptures (which within themselves make the claim that ALL scripture is God-breathed) than how can they believe and fully trust in God for their own salvation?

How can a professing Christian believe and fully trust in the Scriptures which tell them how to be saved, if they do not believe and fully trust what He had written in 2 Timothy 3:16-17 about how ALL Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work? God does not change and He does not lie. Therefore, I cannot help but wonder if these professing Christians think God lied or He was somehow mistaken when He said that ALL Scripture is given by His inspiration, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. If I don't believe what someone has told me, it is because I don't trust them enough to take them at their word. Such a person has not earned my trust or my devotion. However, this is not the case when it concerns my Heavenly Father.

 

[whitetiger1]

I agree. I think it's very sad to see the divinely inspired words of God Himself trampled on in threads like these. It's bad enough to see such a travesty done in the non-Christian forums, even if we can expect unbelievers to demean, ridicule, and outright deny the authority of God's Word. However, it's even worse to see such a travesty done in forums where people profess to be Christian. That is something we should not have to expect from professing Christians. How incredibly insulting and upsetting it must be to God to have some of His own children not believe Him and take Him at His word. It also must be very hurtful to Him that some of His own children do not trust Him enough to believe Him and take Him at His word. It is written in the Scriptures that God does not change nor does He lie. I sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that is true, but apparently not every professing Christian does. But how they cannot is simply beyond me.

If a professing Christian does not believe and fully trust in what God has had written in the Scriptures (which within themselves make the claim that ALL scripture is God-breathed) than how can they believe and fully trust in God for their own salvation? How can a professing Christian believe and fully trust in the Scriptures which tell them how to be saved, if they do not believe and fully trust what He had written in 2 Timothy 3:16-17 about how ALL Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work? God does not change and He does not lie. Therefore, I cannot help but wonder if these professing Christians think God lied or He was somehow mistaken when He said that ALL Scripture is given by His inspiration, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. If I don't believe what someone has told me, it is because I don't trust them enough to take them at their word. Such a person has not earned my trust or my devotion. However, this is not the case when it concerns my Heavenly Father.

Nobody said they didn't your making many Christians say that. What many Christians who are in the Catholic and Orthodox Churches believe is that Scripture and Tradition work together since Scripture came out of Tradition. In the Protestant Tradition this is not the case those Christians follow various things one being the tradition of Scripture alone.

Now that verse you used does not say Scripture alone rather it says, you will not find any in all those Faith Traditions who disagree, that:

All scripture, inspired of God, is profitable to teach, to reprove, to correct, to instruct in justice,

2 Tim 3:16

It does not say alone like many like to make the verse say and Paul was talking about the OT here, there was no NT at the time. No where in the Scripture does it say to use itself exclusively, that idea is just a praxis and furthermore Scripture alone was not something that was used in the western Church for the first 1500 years (Luther started the practice of Scripture alone) of it's existence and never has been used at all in the Eastern Churches.

 

[Publius]

Since we don't have the letter that the widow seems to have written to her bishop, we have to read a little into his reply.

Thank you, but I prefer to look at the text and base my understanding on what the text says, rather than read my understanding into the text.

It does not say alone like many like to make the verse say and Paul was talking about the OT here,

So, what else is there?

there was no NT at the time.

Actually, several of the NT books were already in circulation at the time 2 Tim was written.

Scripture alone was not something that was used in the western Church for the first 1500 years (Luther started the practice of Scripture alone)

Not sure where you got that idea.

2nd Kings 22:10-13 - "And Shaphan the scribe shewed the king, saying, Hilkiah the priest hath delivered me a book. And Shaphan read it before the king. And it came to pass, when the king had heard the words of the book of the law, that he rent his clothes. And the king commanded Hilkiah the priest, and Ahikam the son of Shaphan, and Achbor the son of Michaiah, and Shaphan the scribe, and Asahiah a servant of the king's, saying, Go ye, enquire of the LORD for me, and for the people, and for all Judah, concerning the words of this book that is found: for great is the wrath of the LORD that is kindled against us, because our fathers have not harkened unto the words of this book, to do according unto all that which is written concerning us."

2nd Timothy 3:16-17 - "All scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for Doctrine, for Reproof, for Correction, for Instruction in Righteousness; that the man of God may be thoroughly Furnished unto all good works."

Matthew 4:3-4 - "And when the tempter came to Him, he said, if Thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread. But He answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every Word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God."

Matthew 4:5-11 - Then the Devil taketh Him up into the Holy City, and setteth Him on a pinnacle of the Temple, and saith unto Him, if Thou be the Son of God, cast Thyself down; for it is written, He shall give His angels charge concerning Thee, and in their hands they shall bear Thee up, lest at any time Thou dash Thy foot against a stone. Jesus said unto him, It is Written Again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God."

Matthew 4:8 - "Again, the Devil taketh Him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth Him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; and saith unto Him, all these things will I give Thee, if Thou wilt fall down and worship me. Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan; for it is written, thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and Him only shalt thou serve."

Matthew 21:42 - "Jesus said unto them, did ye never read in the scriptures, the Stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner; this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvelous in our Eyes!"

Revelation 22:18-19 -"For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."

Proverbs 30:5-6 - "Every word of God is pure, He is a shield unto them that put their trust in Him. add thou not unto His words, lest He reprove thee, and thou be found a Liar!"

Matthew 12:3-5 -"but He said unto them, have ye not read what David did when he was an hungered, and they that were with Him?"

Matthew 19:4-5 "And He answered and said unto them, have ye not read that He which made them at the beginning made them male and female, and said, for this reason shall a man leave father and mother and shall cleave to his wife, and they two shall be one flesh."

Matthew 22:31-32 - "But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God saying, I AM the God of Abraham, Isaac, and the God of Jacob. God is not the God of the dead, but of the Living."

Luke 10:26 - "He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?"

Matthew 22:29 -"..Ye do ERR, not knowing THE SCRIPTURES, nor the Power of God!"

Matthew 26:24 -"The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born".

John 5:39 - "Search the Scriptures, for in them ye think ye have eternal life, and they are they which testify of me."

Isa 8:20 - To the law and to the testimony! if they speak not according to this word, surely there is no morning for them.

And since we know how much Catholics and Orthodox love the ECF, here's a little something more for them to chew on:

Augustine of Hippo: "This Mediator (Jesus Christ), having spoken what He judged sufficient first by the prophets, then by His own lips, and afterwards by the apostles, has besides produced the scripture which is called canonical, which has Paramount Authority, and to which we yield assent in all matters of which we ought not to be ignorant, and yet cannot know of ourselves." (Augustine of Hippo, City of God, Book 11, Chapter 3)

Cyril of Jerusalem: This seal have thou ever on thy mind; which now by way of summary has been touched on in its heads, and if the Lord grant, shall hereafter be set forth according to our power, with Scripture-proofs. For concerning the divine and sacred Mysteries of the Faith, we ought not to deliver even the most casual remark without the Holy Scriptures: nor be drawn aside by mere probabilities and the artifices of argument. Do not then believe me because I tell thee these things, unless thou receive from the Holy Scriptures the proof of what is set forth: for this salvation, which is of our faith, is not by ingenious reasonings, but by proof from the Holy Scriptures (A Library of the Fathers of the Holy Catholic Church (Oxford: Parker, 1845), The Catechetical Lectures of S. Cyril 4.17).

Gregory of Nyssa: "The generality of men still fluctuate in their opinions about this, which are as erroneous as they are numerous. As for ourselves, if the Gentile philosophy, which deals methodically with all these points, were really adequate for a demonstration, it would certainly be superfluous to add a discussion on the soul to those speculations, but while the latter proceeded, on the subject of the soul, as far in the direction of supposed consequences as the thinker pleased, we are not entitled to such license, I mean that of affirming what we please; we make the Holy Scriptures the rule and the measure of every tenet (dogma); we necessarily fix our eyes upon that, and approve that alone which may be made to harmonize with the intention of those writings." (Philip Schaff and Henry Wace, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers (Peabody: Hendrikson, 1995), Second Series: Volume V, Philosophical Works, On the Soul And the Resurrection, p. 439).

Basil the Great, Bishop of Caesarea: "Enjoying as you do the consolation of the Holy Scriptures, you stand in need neither of my assistance nor of that of anybody else to help you comprehend your duty. You have the all-sufficient counsel and guidance of the Holy Spirit to lead you to what is right" (Philip Schaff and Henry Wace, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers (Peabody: Hendrikson, 1995), Second Series: Volume VIII, Basil: Letters and Select Works, Letter CCLXXXIII, p. 312).

 

[Standing Up]

I agree. I think it's very sad to see the divinely inspired words of God Himself trampled on in threads like these. -snip-

Yep. Irenaeus from 1800 years ago warns us about those who think they are improvers of the apsotles.

 

[whitetiger1]

Yep. Irenaeus from 1800 years ago warns us about those who think they are improvers of the apsotles.

Sounds like many Protestants, hmm

 

[Montalban]

They adhered to Pauls writings...

In Acts they don't seem to

 

[Montalban]

Sounds like many Protestants, hmm

It's weird when their own 'tradition' of sola scriptura is not supported in scripture

 

[Montalban]

Sounds reasonable to search scripture to find out whether things are true. Blind belief is tiring to me

There's nothing wrong with using scripture.

However sola means alone.

In Acts 15 the Apostles also demonstrate a use of other understanding.

 

[Standing Up]

Sounds like many Protestants, hmm

Right. Sola scriptura.

Irenaeus:
1. We have learned from none others the plan of our salvation, than from those through whom the Gospel has come down to us, which they did at one time proclaim in public, and, at a later period, by the will of God, handed down to us in the Scriptures, to be the ground and pillar of our faith.http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01.ix.iv.ii.html?highlight=improvers,apostles#fnf_ix.iv.ii-p1.3

 

[whitetiger1]

Right. Sola scriptura.

Irenaeus:
1. We have learned from none others the plan of our salvation, than from those through whom the Gospel has come down to us, which they did at one time proclaim in public, and, at a later period, by the will of God, handed down to us in the Scriptures, to be the ground and pillar of our faith.

Doesn't say that invented tradition of men that is not Scriptural at all.

 

[Whisper of Hope]

Right. Sola scriptura.

Irenaeus:
1. We have learned from none others the plan of our salvation, than from those through whom the Gospel has come down to us, which they did at one time proclaim in public, and, at a later period, by the will of God, handed down to us in the Scriptures, to be the ground and pillar of our faith.

Amen.

 

[Montalban]

Amen.

The real problem though is you're accepting a passage that does not deal with all scriptures but only the OT. I already corrected this before but it was ignored.

It's almost a process: misquote, ignore rebuttal, repeat misquote. Then it occasionally works when people such as your good self simply accept that misquote.

That's why I remain here to fight the spam!

Here's where I last noted what Irenaus was actually talking about

http://www.christianforums.com/t7621785-7/#post59495166

You may note that it really wasn't that long ago

 

[Whisper of Hope]

2nd Kings 22:10-13 - "And Shaphan the scribe shewed the king, saying, Hilkiah the priest hath delivered me a book. And Shaphan read it before the king. And it came to pass, when the king had heard the words of the book of the law, that he rent his clothes. And the king commanded Hilkiah the priest, and Ahikam the son of Shaphan, and Achbor the son of Michaiah, and Shaphan the scribe, and Asahiah a servant of the king's, saying, Go ye, enquire of the LORD for me, and for the people, and for all Judah, concerning the words of this book that is found: for great is the wrath of the LORD that is kindled against us, because our fathers have not harkened unto the words of this book, to do according unto all that which is written concerning us."

2nd Timothy 3:16-17 - "All scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for Doctrine, for Reproof, for Correction, for Instruction in Righteousness; that the man of God may be thoroughly Furnished unto all good works."

Matthew 4:3-4 - "And when the tempter came to Him, he said, if Thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread. But He answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every Word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God."

Matthew 4:5-11 - Then the Devil taketh Him up into the Holy City, and setteth Him on a pinnacle of the Temple, and saith unto Him, if Thou be the Son of God, cast Thyself down; for it is written, He shall give His angels charge concerning Thee, and in their hands they shall bear Thee up, lest at any time Thou dash Thy foot against a stone. Jesus said unto him, It is Written Again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God."

Matthew 4:8 - "Again, the Devil taketh Him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth Him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; and saith unto Him, all these things will I give Thee, if Thou wilt fall down and worship me. Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan; for it is written, thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and Him only shalt thou serve."

Matthew 21:42 - "Jesus said unto them, did ye never read in the scriptures, the Stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner; this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvelous in our Eyes!"

Revelation 22:18-19 -"For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."

Proverbs 30:5-6 - "Every word of God is pure, He is a shield unto them that put their trust in Him. add thou not unto His words, lest He reprove thee, and thou be found a Liar!"

Matthew 12:3-5 -"but He said unto them, have ye not read what David did when he was an hungered, and they that were with Him?"

Matthew 19:4-5 "And He answered and said unto them, have ye not read that He which made them at the beginning made them male and female, and said, for this reason shall a man leave father and mother and shall cleave to his wife, and they two shall be one flesh."

Matthew 22:31-32 - "But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God saying, I AM the God of Abraham, Isaac, and the God of Jacob. God is not the God of the dead, but of the Living."

Luke 10:26 - "He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?"

Matthew 22:29 -"..Ye do ERR, not knowing THE SCRIPTURES, nor the Power of God!"

Matthew 26:24 -"The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born".

John 5:39 - "Search the Scriptures, for in them ye think ye have eternal life, and they are they which testify of me."

Isa 8:20 - To the law and to the testimony! if they speak not according to this word, surely there is no morning for them.

Amen brother! What an excellent post!

Keep preaching the Scriptures! It is written....

And since we know how much Catholics and Orthodox love the ECF, here's a little something more for them to chew on:

Augustine of Hippo: "This Mediator (Jesus Christ), having spoken what He judged sufficient first by the prophets, then by His own lips, and afterwards by the apostles, has besides produced the scripture which is called canonical, which has Paramount Authority, and to which we yield assent in all matters of which we ought not to be ignorant, and yet cannot know of ourselves." (Augustine of Hippo, City of God, Book 11, Chapter 3)

Cyril of Jerusalem: This seal have thou ever on thy mind; which now by way of summary has been touched on in its heads, and if the Lord grant, shall hereafter be set forth according to our power, with Scripture-proofs. For concerning the divine and sacred Mysteries of the Faith, we ought not to deliver even the most casual remark without the Holy Scriptures: nor be drawn aside by mere probabilities and the artifices of argument. Do not then believe me because I tell thee these things, unless thou receive from the Holy Scriptures the proof of what is set forth: for this salvation, which is of our faith, is not by ingenious reasonings, but by proof from the Holy Scriptures (A Library of the Fathers of the Holy Catholic Church (Oxford: Parker, 1845), The Catechetical Lectures of S. Cyril 4.17).

Gregory of Nyssa: "The generality of men still fluctuate in their opinions about this, which are as erroneous as they are numerous. As for ourselves, if the Gentile philosophy, which deals methodically with all these points, were really adequate for a demonstration, it would certainly be superfluous to add a discussion on the soul to those speculations, but while the latter proceeded, on the subject of the soul, as far in the direction of supposed consequences as the thinker pleased, we are not entitled to such license, I mean that of affirming what we please; we make the Holy Scriptures the rule and the measure of every tenet (dogma); we necessarily fix our eyes upon that, and approve that alone which may be made to harmonize with the intention of those writings." (Philip Schaff and Henry Wace, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers (Peabody: Hendrikson, 1995), Second Series: Volume V, Philosophical Works, On the Soul And the Resurrection, p. 439).

Basil the Great, Bishop of Caesarea: "Enjoying as you do the consolation of the Holy Scriptures, you stand in need neither of my assistance nor of that of anybody else to help you comprehend your duty. You have the all-sufficient counsel and guidance of the Holy Spirit to lead you to what is right" (Philip Schaff and Henry Wace, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers (Peabody: Hendrikson, 1995), Second Series: Volume VIII, Basil: Letters and Select Works, Letter CCLXXXIII, p. 312).

Yes, they do tend to resort to the Early Church Fathers in their attempts to justify and validate the extra-biblical doctrines and beliefs they hold, such as praying to Mary and to the saints in Heaven, purgatory, Mary being sinless and a perpetual virgin, the papacy, and the list goes on and on. It is rather ironic when both claim to be the one and only "true" Church, descending from the Apostles. It is sad how so many professing Christians choose to place their church traditions and doctrines above the Holy Scriptures. This practice is more prevalent when their traditions and doctrines clearly contradict what is written in the Holy Scriptures.

 

[Montalban]

Doesn't say that invented tradition of men that is not Scriptural at all.

As I noted above, it's simply a repeat of a claim that Irenaus is dealing with all scripture.

He's not.

When the master of confusion spreads misinformation (directly or indirectly) then I hope to be here to correct that - about what our ECFs really stood for.

 

[Montalban]

Yes, they do tend to resort to the Early Church Fathers in their attempts to justify and validate the extra-biblical doctrines and beliefs they hold, such as praying to Mary and to the saints in Heaven, purgatory, Mary being sinless and a perpetual virgin, and the list goes on and on. It is very sad how so many professing Christians choose to place their church traditions and doctrines above the Holy Scriptures. This practice is even more prevalent when their church traditions and doctrines clearly contradict what is written in the Holy Scriptures.

The great irony here is that you applauded someone doing just that!

One person here is citing ECFs as an authority to back up sola scriptura!

It's a confused argument then if one can't cite them but they're applauded too!

 

[Standing Up]

Amen.

I agree.

Apostles taught Polycarp who taught Irenaeus. In Polycarp's sole extant letter, some see all of the NT books quoted or alluded to.

So, when Irenaeus says scripture is our ground and pillar of the truth, it is extremely likely he would have known precisely the same NT we have today.