St. Lawrence Lounge (Vocations, lay-ministries, and discernment)

[benedictine]

Since there are several people here at STR that are discerning a call to Holy Orders, or lay ministries, I've decided to create a St. LAwrence Lounge.

 

[benedictine]

I guess I'll start a conversation.

Hey, Fr. Rick, when did you decide to become a priest?

 

[AveMaria]

Just peeking in for a minute to reserve a chair & a cuppa tea- I'm extremely busy today, I'm going out of town tomorrow for a family emergency, but as many of y'all know, I'm among the group here who are working on discernment.

 

[benedictine]

would you like a window seat, or a fireside seat?

 

[benedictine]

Just wondering, Ave Maria, are you considering an ordained ministry, or a lay ministry?

 

[AveMaria]

Just wondering, Ave Maria, are you considering an ordained ministry, or a lay ministry?

Ordained. It's something I've been running from for years - and I'm finally facing up to it. I've felt a tug towards the priesthood since I was in 3rd or 4th grade, and the tugging just keeps getting stronger and more clear. (I'll be glad to go into a bit more detail if anyone is interested, once things settle down a bit.)

The few friends and relatives who I've shared with this have been very supportive and affirming - my own mother actually raised the issue with me, before I spoke with her.

I moved to a new state recently, though, and I'm in a new parish, and I've been reluctant to speak to my rector about this until I'd had a chance to get to know him a bit. Soon as I'm back in town, I'll be calling to set up an appointment.

How about yourself?

 

[benedictine]

I'm thinking priesthood as well, though there is something about being a deacon and working primarily in Christian Education and Youth for a while is something that is working in the back of my mind. But, I am sure that the eventual goal of that calling is the priesthood.

 

[Wigglesworth]

How common is it in the various Anglican and Old Catholic traditions to be a bi-vocational priest or deacon? In other words, how many priests have a secular job in addition to their priesthood?

It's not uncommon for nonCatholic ministers in smaller churches to have jobs outside the church.

 

[benedictine]

I know of a priest who is both a priest and a stockbroker.

Fr. John Danforth is the priest that did the funeral for President Reagen. He was also a US Senator and UN ambassador.

 

[pmcleanj]

How common is it in the various Anglican and Old Catholic traditions to be a bi-vocational priest or deacon? In other words, how many priests have a secular job in addition to their priesthood?

It's not uncommon for nonCatholic ministers in smaller churches to have jobs outside the church.

I've known a couple worker-priests. They carry a lot of credibility, because of their experience in the "real world".

 

[Father Rick]

I guess I'll start a conversation.

Hey, Fr. Rick, when did you decide to become a priest?

LOL...

So how do I get pulled into this thing this quickly?

Just kidding...

I first felt God speaking to me about ministry when I was 7 yrs old. My father was a protestant (AoG) pastor and I told God I didn't want to be like my dad (long story). God backed off until I was 15.

At 15, God began speaking to me again about ministry. This time I agreed. I was very involved in the church my father pastored and served in about every lay position you could over the next couple of years.

At 17, I graduated high school and went to Southeastern College of the Assemblies of God to prepare for ministry. During that time, I worked with several different churches. I was paying my own way through college, so I had to take out at times to work as I went, so it took me several years to finish.

Along the way, I got married, bought a house, 2 new cars, 2 dogs, 2 cats, and 2 birds (yeah, I'm starting an ark!). All the 'stuff' that happens in life. The whole time, I was working in the corporate world, completing my degree, and working within different churches. I studied under a formerly Chassidic (now messianic) rabbi, served as a cell pastor at a Vineyard church, was part of the ministry team of a P/C mega church, did missionary work in 2 different countries (Germany and Surinam), taught seminars at various churches, led Messianic Shabbat services (in Hebrew), and had a teaching program on Christian Radio. Along the way of doing all this, I was ordained as a protestant minister through a non-denom group. After finishing my undergrad, I started a M.A. in Church Ministries through the Assemblies of God theological seminary, which I am finishing now.

Since church history and the Jewish roots of Christianity are two of my passions, I ran kept running into theological issues I had to confront as a Protestant-- namely Apostolic Succession and Real Presence. Long story short, I decided I had to act on what I knew to be true-- which meant I would have to come into Succession. I began to search for an avenue to do that. I did not feel comfortable with ECUSA because of the whole 'elephant' issue that was already brewing. I couldn't agree with Papal Infallibity and the Marian Doctrines as formal dogma. I finally found the OC's almost on accident.

After some serious study/prayer, I contacted my bishop to see about ordination... and the rest is history. After going through the discernment process--which lasted about 6 months or so, I was confirmed on a Friday and ordained to the diaconate the next day (normally it's not done like that, but it just worked out that way since I was already in ministry,etc.). I completed my M.Div. through St. Michael's College (an OC seminary)-- and fortunately for me, much of my AGTS work was able to count toward it so I didn't have to re-do everything. After serving a year as a deacon, I was ordained as a priest. During my time as a deacon, I served on the altar of an Anglipayan Church with which we work closely as well as beginning to lay down the foundation for St. Thomas More which my bishop had asked me to plant.

I did as I was asked, and here we are today.


I hope this helps some. I know my process is a little different since I was a protestant minister who 'converted', but I will be glad to give any info/advice I have.

Blessings!

 

[Father Rick]

How common is it in the various Anglican and Old Catholic traditions to be a bi-vocational priest or deacon? In other words, how many priests have a secular job in addition to their priesthood?

It's not uncommon for nonCatholic ministers in smaller churches to have jobs outside the church.

Most Old Catholic clergy here in the US are bi-vocational, since OC's are a small group. Many Anglicans (including smaller ECUSA parishes) and Orthodox are also bi-vocational.

Many Romans are also bi-vocational, although many don't think of it that way, since they are working for the church in a different capacity-- such as school teacher, accountant, etc. There are also Roman priests who did not take a vow of poverty that are bi-vocational. Here in Florida there is one Roman priest like this who owns real estate/investment properties.

Personally, I teach in the public school system in a self-contained unit for severely emotionally disturbed kids. It's me, my para, and 5 middle school boys. My unit is actually more therapy than academics by design--as my kids are one step removed from being placed in a lock-down unit-- and I have a Licensed Mental Health Counselor that comes in 2 days a week for half the day to work with kids as well.

 

[benedictine]

I hope this helps some. I know my process is a little different since I was a protestant minister who 'converted', but I will be glad to give any info/advice I have.

Blessings!

Would it be a bad idea for me to go straight from College to Seminary,and when do you think I should begin the formal discernment process?(I ask the second becouse I am pretty much sure that I want to go into the priesthood. I do have an idea, and that is to stop along the way, and serve as a Deacon and Youth Minister/Christian Ed. Director for a little bit.)

 

[Father Rick]

Would it be a bad idea for me to go straight from College to Seminary,and when do you think I should begin the formal discernment process?(I ask the second becouse I am pretty much sure that I want to go into the priesthood. I do have an idea, and that is to stop along the way, and serve as a Deacon and Youth Minister/Christian Ed. Director for a little bit.)

Well, you will (almost) always serve as a deacon before you are a priest. There are 2 types of deacons-- permanent deacons and transitional deacons. Transitional deacons are those who are on their way to the priesthood (it's kind of like an apprenticeship).

There are pro's and con's to both going from college straight to seminary and to taking a couple of years off for 'real world' experience. Both methods are equally valid, it just depends on God's call for your life. For many people, if you stop after college you won't continue with additional education. Be aware it is more difficult to go back to school after you are accustomed to living at a certain income level--especially if you 'acquire' a wife and kids in the meantime.

My biggest piece of advice to you... or anyone else who may be sensing a pull to ministry... is to be as active as you can with whatever ministries you find available. Youth Ministry, Sunday School, feeding the poor... whatever... as you try different things, you will find that certain areas of ministry are a better 'fit' for you than others. It will help you with your own discernment process (meaning you finding yourself), as well as provide invaluable experience later if you are the rector of a congregation and have to oversee all these different areas.

 

[benedictine]

Well, you will (almost) always serve as a deacon before you are a priest. There are 2 types of deacons-- permanent deacons and transitional deacons. Transitional deacons are those who are on their way to the priesthood (it's kind of like an apprenticeship).

There are pro's and con's to both going from college straight to seminary and to taking a couple of years off for 'real world' experience. Both methods are equally valid, it just depends on God's call for your life. For many people, if you stop after college you won't continue with additional education. Be aware it is more difficult to go back to school after you are accustomed to living at a certain income level--especially if you 'acquire' a wife and kids in the meantime.

My biggest piece of advice to you... or anyone else who may be sensing a pull to ministry... is to be as active as you can with whatever ministries you find available. Youth Ministry, Sunday School, feeding the poor... whatever... as you try different things, you will find that certain areas of ministry are a better 'fit' for you than others. It will help you with your own discernment process (meaning you finding yourself), as well as provide invaluable experience later if you are the rector of a congregation and have to oversee all these different areas.

Well, right now, I'm an Acolyte, Chalice bearer, and trained but not serving as a lector, as well as the youngest, and only male on the Children's Ministry Committiee.

 

[Timothy]

I am also discerning a possible call, and am asking for a nice fireside seat! It's cold here--we don't have the nice central heating that most of y'all would consider essential. So despite the fact it never gets much under 278 degrees, the houses are chilly!

Timothy (just popping in and out)

 

[pmcleanj]

it never gets much under 278 degrees,...

 

[Timothy]

278 is 5 in Celsius, remember!

Timothy

 

[pmcleanj]

278 is 5 in Celsius, remember!

Yes, I caught the allusion!

(BTW, it's 250 here, and falling, so limited sympathy despite the central heating thing.)

 

[Timothy]

Oh, of course, you're canadian. You understand real units of measurement. Most people don't.

Anyway, on topic... how have you felt your 'call' to the ministry? For me, so far it's just a sense of 'rightness' which never came when considering any other career. Also a great pulling towards the Anglican church (if I could only persuade them to replace their horrible organ with a decent piano...)

Timothy