St.John the Baptist

[Rhamiel]

June 24 is the feast day of St.John the Baptist
cousin, prophet and forerunner of our Lord, Jesus Christ
May we all be inspired by his faith in the Lord and zeal for justice
may he pray for all of us

 

[James4_14]

John the Baptist is dead. He has yet to be resurrected. Do your own praying is the order of the day. Glorify Christ and not dead saints.

 

[Rhamiel]

John the Baptist is dead. He has yet to be resurrected. Do your own praying is the order of the day. Glorify Christ and not dead saints.

what do you mean by glorify?
I was speaking the truth about a brother in Christ
was not John the cousin of our Lord? was he not a prophet? did he not come before our Lord to help prepare the way for Him?
all praise be to God, and one thing I thank God for is the many prophets He has given to us, the greatest prophet was St.John the Baptist
and yes, St.John has not been resurrected yet, but does that mean He can not pray for us? 2 Corinthians 5:8 says that those who are away from the body are with the Lord
"Do your own praying is the order of the day"
I thought we were to pray for eachother?
I ask my friends and family to pray for me, can i not ask those who are at home with the Lord to pray for me as well?

 

[James4_14]

what do you mean by glorify?
I was speaking the truth about a brother in Christ
was not John the cousin of our Lord? was he not a prophet? did he not come before our Lord to help prepare the way for Him?
all praise be to God, and one thing I thank God for is the many prophets He has given to us, the greatest prophet was St.John the Baptist
and yes, St.John has not been resurrected yet, but does that mean He can not pray for us? 2 Corinthians 5:8 says that those who are away from the body are with the Lord
"Do your own praying is the order of the day"
I thought we were to pray for eachother?
I ask my friends and family to pray for me, can i not ask those who are at home with the Lord to pray for me as well?

I certainly am glad also that God employed the prophets to reveal Himself to us. Everyone on the pages of Scriptures are but a speck of dust ....Jesus Christ excluded.

***John 3:30 He must increase, but I must decrease.
Allow him to remain in the decreased status and focus on the One Who will deliver us.

2Cor 5:8. The resurrection is in view. It does not say "is to be present with the lord". Paul did not want to be in the "naked state" of death at His return. The return of Christ was expected in their lifetime but that expectation was suspended at Acts 28:28. We are dead until we are resurrected otherwise resurrection is none effect.

On which prayers do you live? Yours or someone else's? There is nothing wrong with praying for others BUT it is something we must do ourselves.

 

[Lion King]

I thought we were to pray for eachother?
I ask my friends and family to pray for me, can i not ask those who are at home with the Lord to pray for me as well?

Pray FOR each other and not TO each other.

When men tell you to consult mediums and spiritists, who whisper and mutter, should not a people inquire of their God? Why consult the dead on behalf of the living? Isaiah 8:19

 

[Mark_Sam]

Please don't let this turn into one of those threads ...

That being said: St. John the Baptist is often pictured with an abnormally large index finger, because that's his role and mission; to point to Christ, the Lamb of God (John 1:23; 1:35). He is indeed the greatest prophet (Matthew 11:11), and the last prophet of the OT.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

John the Baptist is dead. He has yet to be resurrected. Do your own praying is the order of the day. Glorify Christ and not dead saints.

St. John the Baptist is NOT dead, but lives eternally! While we Lutherans do not ask for his intercession, we commemorate both his birth (this festival) and his martyrdom on August 29th. As John B. pointed to, and helped prepare for our Lord Jesus' ministry, the account of both his miraculous conception and birth, his ministry and his martyrdom point to our Lord just as much today as it did when he preached repentance on the banks of the Jordan.

Be mindful also that Scripture tells us that the saints pray for the faithful; if they were dead, such would not be possible.

 

[Lion King]

St. John the Baptist is NOT dead, but lives eternally! While we Lutherans do not ask for his intercession, we commemorate both his birth (this festival) and his martyrdom on August 29th. As John B. pointed to, and helped prepare for our Lord Jesus' ministry, the account of both his miraculous conception and birth, his ministry and his martyrdom point to our Lord just as much today as it did when he preached repentance on the banks of the Jordan.

Strictly speaking, John the baptist is DEAD. Jesus Christ is said to be alive because He was raised from the DEAD. Has John the baptist been raised from the dead, to live forever yet?

I am he that lives, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for ever more, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death. Revelation 1:18

Be mindful also that Scripture tells us that the saints pray for the faithful; if they were dead, such would not be possible.

Where do the Scriptures speak of the dead praying on behalf of the living?

 

[Zeek]

Where do the Scriptures speak of the dead praying on behalf of the living?

Yeah...I'd be interested to see this substantiated from Scripture, or at the very least see it demonstrated through a later tradition that shows clearly how it is important, beneficial and stays within acceptable parameters of Apostolic tradition.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Strictly speaking, John the baptist is DEAD. Jesus Christ is said to be alive because He was raised from the DEAD. Has John the baptist been raised from the dead, to live forever yet?

I am he that lives, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for ever more, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death. Revelation 1:18



Where do the Scriptures speak of the dead praying on behalf of the living?

Yeah...I'd be interested to see this substantiated from Scripture, or at the very least see it demonstrated through a later tradition that shows clearly how it is important, beneficial and stays within acceptable parameters of Apostolic tradition.

John's physical body is indeed dead, his soul shares in the eternal life that is promised to all of the faithful in the Holy Gospel. John is alive, his body is not.

Revelation 5:8

English Standard Version (ESV)

8 And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.

So, we have the elders and the living creatures in Heaven presenting the prayers of the faithful to our Lord.

Seems clear to me.

 

[Zeek]

So, we have the elders and the living creatures in Heaven presenting the prayers of the faithful to our Lord.

Seems clear to me.

So on that basis you reckon we have the right and the authority to take our prayers to vairious entities in the Heavenly realm...bro you have a remarkable understanding and faith. In all honesty I daren't choose a life-style around such fragile evidence.

With Jesus I have the assurance that He hears me....with anyone else the Bible does not give that assurance, so I can't understand why people take the risk of wasting their prayers, rather than submitting everything to the L-rd, knowing and being assured that He hears.

1 John 5:14
This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we
ask anything according to his will, he hears us...
This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we
ask anything according to his will, he hears us. ...

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

So on that basis you reckon we have the right and the authority to take our prayers to vairious entities in the Heavenly realm...bro you have a remarkable understanding and faith. In all honesty I daren't choose a life-style around such fragile evidence.

Neither my Lutheran tradition, nor I advocate praying to, in your words, "various entities" in Heaven. Scripture is clear that we are not to pray to them, only to God through Jesus. The point that I was trying to make, is that Revelation shows us that they do intercede for us; and that they continue to do God's work; they are not dead.

With Jesus I have the assurance that He hears me....with anyone else the Bible does not give that assurance, so I can't understand why people take the risk of wasting their prayers, rather than submitting everything to the L-rd, knowing and being assured that He hears.

1 John 5:14
This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we
ask anything according to his will, he hears us...
This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we
ask anything according to his will, he hears us. ...

I completely agree.

 

[Lion King]

John's physical body is indeed dead, his soul shares in the eternal life that is promised to all of the faithful in the Holy Gospel. John is alive, his body is not.

I completely agree.

So, we have the elders and the living creatures in Heaven presenting the prayers of the faithful to our Lord.

Seems clear to me.

Forgive me, but where does it say in that passage (Revelation 5:8), the physically dead pray on behalf of the living?

Neither my Lutheran tradition, nor I advocate praying to, in your words, "various entities" in Heaven. Scripture is clear that we are not to pray to them, only to God through Jesus. The point that I was trying to make, is that Revelation shows us that they do intercede for us; and that they continue to do God's work; they are not dead.

I respectfully disagree.

There is only ONE person who intercedes for me before God in HEAVEN, and that is, Jesus Christ. He ALONE pleads my case before God, He ALONE is my High-Priest...

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. 1 Timothy 2:5


Who is he that comdemns? It is Christ that died, yes rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us. Romans 8:34


Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office; but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them. Hebrews 7:23-25

 

[Rhamiel]

no one is saying you have to pray to the saints

though on a personal note I think you are missing out on a lot

 

[Lion King]

no one is saying you have to pray to the saints

though on a personal note I think you are missing out on a lot

I am fully content with praying to Christ alone. He hears me.

By the way, isn't talking with those who are physically dead called necromancy?

 

[James4_14]

L-rd

Spell it out Brother. He spelled it out for you on the Cross, my friend.

 

[James4_14]

I am fully content with praying to Christ alone. He hears me.

By the way, isn't talking with those who are physically dead called necromancy?

I thought we were to pray to the Father in Jesus' name and not vain about it.

 

[James4_14]

no one is saying you have to pray to the saints

though on a personal note I think you are missing out on a lot

I don't have a parking space angel. People move out when I drive in because its me.

 

[James4_14]

O angel of God, my holy guardian, given to me from heaven, enlighten me this day, and save me from all evil. Instruct me in doing good deeds, and set me on the path of salvation. Amen.

Not attacking. Just questioning. Why is that troubling to me?
Did anybody pray to angels as an example in Scriptures? If you show me I won't be troubled anymore.

 

[James4_14]

Mark said:

Neither my Lutheran tradition, nor I advocate praying to, in your words, "various entities" in Heaven. Scripture is clear that we are not to pray to them, only to God through Jesus. The point that I was trying to make, is that Revelation shows us that they do intercede for us; and that they continue to do God's work; they are not dead.

You chose a Scriptural reference to an event sometime in the future. Leave it in the future. This is NOT the norm. Overreaching eschatology it is.