St.John the Baptist

[Lion King]

I thought we were to pray to the Father in Jesus' name and not vain about it.

It's one and the same to me. My God is one.

 

[James4_14]

It's one and the same to me. My God is one.

And where does your view place Christ in all this. Do you not rob Him of being our Advocate? Our Mediator?
What is the mind of God in the matter?
It is a portrait of the Heavenly family... The prayer should be less want and more praise and thanks.

 

[James4_14]

The basic meaning of baptise is to place in identification with something or someone.

***John 1:29-31
29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold!!! ....the Lamb of God.....which taketh away the sin of the world.
30 This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me.
31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.

John the Baptist was the ....INDENTIFIER.
He KNEW....he was but a speck of dust:
***John 3:30 He must increase, but I must decrease.
I love John the Baptist but he pointed to where our attention should be.
He (John) was the last of the old testament prophets. He passed the mantle back to the One that first gave it.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Mark said:



You chose a Scriptural reference to an event sometime in the future. Leave it in the future. This is NOT the norm. Overreaching eschatology it is.

Future, or concurrent eternity; like God, without beginning and without end?

 

[James4_14]

Future, or concurrent eternity; like God, without beginning and without end?

We are in age times. When God is finally all in all we have no knowledge nor as to conditions at that time.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

We are in age times. When God is finally all in all we have no knowledge nor as to conditions at that time.

God is all-in-all now; eternal, omniscient, omnipresent, the Alpha and Omega.

 

[James4_14]

***1 Cor 15:24-28
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Not accomplished yet. There is a process. Process not completed.

 

[Lion King]

And where does your view place Christ in all this. Do you not rob Him of being our Advocate? Our Mediator?

How am I robbing Christ?

What is the mind of God in the matter?
It is a portrait of the Heavenly family... The prayer should be less want and more praise and thanks.

My prayers are all want, all praise and all thanks.

 

[Zeek]

Neither my Lutheran tradition, nor I advocate praying to, in your words, "various entities" in Heaven. Scripture is clear that we are not to pray to them, only to God through Jesus. The point that I was trying to make, is that Revelation shows us that they do intercede for us; and that they continue to do God's work; they are not dead.

Hey Mark....I fully accept the departed Believers are alive in Messiah...it is just that we are not instructed as to their function, and the few Scriptures that briefly mention them are not concise enough to build a doctrine upon...we just have the vaguest of ideas and must remain content that they are with the L-rd till such a time as we join them.

I believe that when Paul was taken up to Heaven, he saw things he was not permitted to reveal, precisely because of mans aptitude in making doctrines based on half-truths and assumptions and ultimately obscuring some of the simplicity of the Gospel...it all becomes another distraction.

Kind regards. Zazal

 

[Zeek]

no one is saying you have to pray to the saints

though on a personal note I think you are missing out on a lot

If Scripture showed us that prayer to the departed Believers was valid, I think we would all be engaging in this activity...as such it is only promoted through the auspices of demominational tradition, whose validity must be measured against what is reasonably acceptable, either directly through Scripture, or the thrust of Apostolic doctrine per se...but because it isn't, then it is hardly likely to find favour or acceptance with those that have not been yoked to Rome, and therefore have the liberty to view things unhindered by doctrine that is at best imposed upon others thinking/understanding.

 

[Zeek]

L-rd

Spell it out Brother. He spelled it out for you on the Cross, my friend.

YHWH....

I know that to some L-rd or G-d can seem a bit pretentious/religious/unnecessary...it is only in deference to my Jewish friends that I write it thusly, and am not bound or under compulsion to do so...it is a peripheral, so I hope you will bear with me, or treat me as a weaker brother on this one issue. Thanks for understanding.

 

[judechild]

Yeah...I'd be interested to see this substantiated from Scripture, or at the very least see it demonstrated through a later tradition that shows clearly how it is important, beneficial and stays within acceptable parameters of Apostolic tradition.

That is fine, my response to the Patron Saints thread is waiting for you, but I'm not going to do double-time (unfortunately, you'll have to wait another week or so for my next installment of our discussion).

 

[James4_14]

YHWH....

I know that to some L-rd or G-d can seem a bit pretentious/religious/unnecessary...it is only in deference to my Jewish friends that I write it thusly, and am not bound or under compulsion to do so...it is a peripheral, so I hope you will bear with me, or treat me as a weaker brother on this one issue. Thanks for understanding.

YHWH. Good one. I will treat you as a brother. God determines those who are weak. I would submit to you that we are brothers in Christ and not a system of beliefs. It is He Who did it all for us.

 

[Zeek]

YHWH. Good one. I will treat you as a brother. God determines those who are weak. I would submit to you that we are brothers in Christ and not a system of beliefs. It is He Who did it all for us.

Amen bro...Jesus paid the price.