ST. John Calvin

[Benedicta00]

saints (suing Strongs)

G40
ἅγιος
hagios
hag'-ee-os
From ἅγος hagos (an awful thing) compare G53, [H2282]; sacred (physically pure, morally blameless or religious, ceremonially consecrated): - (most) holy (one, thing), saint.


We are made this way through the blood of Christ. We are called new creations at that point. We are saved, we are saints.

I agree... but we are creatures of time, aren't we?

The past is dead and the future to us is unborn... what we are has not yet appeared...

Why? because we live in the moment, we do have salvation in the moment if we are not in a state of rebellion that is... and we are to live our lives in the moment, with fear and trembling, not to make a shipwreck out of our faith on this day.

 

[Benedicta00]

I believe in eternal secuirty. God is faithful and like the father in the account of the prodigal son, He welcomes us into His arms when we repent and Christ is the good Shepherd who will search us out.

I can attest to that from my own life.

I believe in it too, as long as we take care not to allow ourselves to fall into willfully, rebellious mortal sin where we end up repudiating the faith altogether...

 

[mont974x4]

How miserable it would be to be in danger of losing my salvation because I had a bad day...to think that I can be saved this day and not the next.

Who would want to live in such danger? On such a rollercoaster? To serve such an unmerciful and ungracious god?


NASB
Rom 5:15 But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many.
Rom 5:16 The gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned; for on the one hand the judgment arose from one transgression resulting in condemnation, but on the other hand the free gift arose from many transgressions resulting in justification.
Rom 5:17 For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.
Rom 5:18 So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.
Rom 5:19 For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous.
Rom 5:20 The Law came in so that the transgression would increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,
Rom 5:21 so that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace would reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

See Romans chapters 6-8 regarding the struggle of the saved, of the saints, on earth...in this life.

 

[Benedicta00]

Not talking about a bad day... not talking about weakness Mont, please stay focused, please do not deflect.

I am talking about rebellion, pure willfully rejection. What does John 3 say? Condemnation can only come through willful rejection.

The past is dead... what we did in the past has passed us. If we have repented of our past life, then that is over and done.

How can we repent for the future? We can't... it is literally unborn...

All we have is the moment and in this moment we have salvation... if we aren't in a state of rebellion.

And in this moment we are told to work that out with fear and trembling as to not make a shipwreck out of our faith.

Why are you arguing against what Paul said? He indeed said these things.

 

[mont974x4]

Our weaknesses are what make for bad days. No deflection, just word choice. Agains, see Romans 6-8. I'm not arguing Paul, I am arguing with the sad way teh RCC presents this case, or at least how you present it.


Christs blood washes away ALL our sin, when we repent God is faithful and just to forgive them. God is not sitting on His throne waiting to zot us and take away His gift to His children, the saints.

 

[simonthezealot]

And in this moment we are told to work that out with fear and trembling as to not make a shipwreck out of our faith.

.

Work OUT as opposed work ON your salvation... As I mentioned once, working OUT is like digging a diamond in your own mine....Working ON is attempting to align yourself so you can buy the mine to then work it out...You apparently don't see the difference here!

 

[Apollo Celestio]

Too busy hiding for love..

 

[simonthezealot]

Bene I think it is hilarious that you claim catholocism is 100% scriptural yet between you and TLF you've 70+ posts on this thread and I think I've seen three that have ALLUDED to scripture! and 1 or 2 that actually QUOTED them.

 

[Kristos]

Bene I think it is hilarious that you claim catholocism is 100% scriptural yet between you and TLF you've 70+ posts on this thread and I think I've seen three that have ALLUDED to scripture! and 1 or 2 that actually QUOTED them.

Has quoting scripture ever resolved anything? If it did then wouldn't all (or most) Protestants agree on everything???

 

[jckstraw72]

Has quoting scripture ever resolved anything? If it did then wouldn't all (or most) Protestants agree on everything???

zing

 

[mont974x4]

What does agreement have to do with anything? My bride and I don't always agree but that doesn't end our deep relationship as man and wife.


Our unity isn't in doctrines but in Christ.


What I find sad is the ignoring of Scripture and avoidance of direct questions regarding applicable passages. Or when people place more credibility to websites and other wirtings of men over Scripture. We are all guilty of that from time to time.

 

[jckstraw72]

Our unity isn't in doctrines but in Christ.

St. Paul definitely does not agree with you. He even says continuing in sound doctrines will save you and those around you. He exhorts believers to keep pure doctrines over and over again.

 

[mont974x4]

St. Paul definitely does not agree with you. He even says continuing in sound doctrines will save you and those around you. He exhorts believers to keep pure doctrines over and over again.

We need to remember what is essential and where we have some freedom. And what I think is not in opposition to Paul wrote.

 

[jckstraw72]

We need to remember what is essential and where we have some freedom. And what I think is not in opposition to Paul wrote.

reducing Christianity to just Christ (whatever that even means) just so you can say there's unity is most certainly against St. Paul.

 

[mont974x4]

Really? Where did Paul say you must beleive and agree with all these things (insert a various list of conflicting doctrines here) in order to have unity?


I didn't reduce anything to "just Christ". He is bigger than all those things. Although, in the end, the bottomline is He is our everything. He is all we need. It is all about Him, us in Him and He in us because whether we are dunked or sprinkled, or whether we use juice or wine for Communion don't mean a thing. Simply put, there are areas we are free to disagree on and we need to remember that those things don't really divide us in the grand scheme of God's grace and Christs saving and atoning blood.

 

[Benedicta00]

Has quoting scripture ever resolved anything? If it did then wouldn't all (or most) Protestants agree on everything???

exactly... all the Protestants are doing is using scripture to disprove scripture. It's illogical.

 

[mont974x4]

exactly... all the Protestants are doing is using scripture to disprove scripture. It's illogical.

Care to provide an example?

 

[Benedicta00]

Care to provide an example?

What does agreement have to do with anything? My bride and I don't always agree but that doesn't end our deep relationship as man and wife.


Our unity isn't in doctrines but in Christ.


What I find sad is the ignoring of Scripture and avoidance of direct questions regarding applicable passages. Or when people place more credibility to websites and other wirtings of men over Scripture. We are all guilty of that from time to time.

Mont, I have been using scripture "only" with you and you have done what? Used scripture to disprove the scripture I have provided you with.

Jesus said, there will be those who will be called great in the kingdom and those who will be called least and then there will be those who will not be called at all... There not a whole lot there one can argue against with out arguing against what scripture says itself. There will be those who will be called great and those who will be called least... You have argued that the bible does not teach this...yes, it does.

Therefor your dilemma is not with the Catholic Church, it's with scripture. Catholicism is completely and unequivable scriptural. Scripture shows us, gives testimony that the Christian faith is Catholic.

 

[Benedicta00]

reducing Christianity to just Christ (whatever that even means) just so you can say there's unity is most certainly against St. Paul.

Yep...

Mont, the bible says that our salvation is conditional, based on our faith and if we endure to the end or if we squander it and let it be trampled under the feet of men.

I think maybe if you truly read the whole book of Matthew you may gain some much needed insight. We were never guaranteed salvation upfront, in the past tense. How is it even possible to have something in the past tense?

 

[mont974x4]

Then post Scriptures that actually address the issue were discussing.

Not once have I said there won't be least and great in Heaven. You have done what you do frequently and that is put words in my mouth and misprepresent what I post.

What I do argue with is the unbiblical RCC teaching regarding sainthood, or more to the point, what makes us saints.


We have enough threads on the old "Christianity is Catholic" and similar ideals. We should both be well aware of where the other stands on that by now.