• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

ST. John Calvin

Status
Not open for further replies.

simonthezealot

have you not read,what God has spoken unto you?
Apr 17, 2006
16,461
1,919
Minnesota
✟27,453.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
A little digging into historical facts and you will see where all this hatred, bias and bigotry for the Catholic Church comes from.
Persecutions and inquisitions, not becoming of a church that hails itself as the "true church" tend to be a cause of animosity at the very least!
 
Upvote 0

Benedicta00

Well-Known Member
Jun 25, 2003
28,512
838
Visit site
✟55,563.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Private
Hon, we all proof text.. you included. We all have our exegesis, it's where our exegesis comes from and why we believe it is what we need to concern ourselves with.

Mine comes from the first Christians and the ECF. You know... Those who knew those who new Christ?

Yours comes from the Reformers 1530 years after the fact... and so around it goes...

On whose authority did the Reformers speak? When you can answer that and back up that answer, then we can all pack up and go home because then will this whole thing be over with.

That is the 50 bazillion dollar question.
 
Upvote 0

Benedicta00

Well-Known Member
Jun 25, 2003
28,512
838
Visit site
✟55,563.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Private
Persecutions and inquisitions, not becoming of a church that hails itself as the "true church" tend to be a cause of animosity at the very least!

Which 90% has been proven to be either a myth and or a out right lie.

But it doesn't matter, John Paul ll made amends with all the world religions and apologized for any atrocities the Church did commit if she had committed any.

So... what's your point? When has any of the Protestant communities ever apologised and did penance for the factual mass murder the Reformation resulted in?

Well...? when has any protestant leader ever apologize and did penance for any of the atrocities the Reformers indeed committed in God's name?
 
Upvote 0

simonthezealot

have you not read,what God has spoken unto you?
Apr 17, 2006
16,461
1,919
Minnesota
✟27,453.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
On whose authority did the Reformers speak?.
Darlin,
As for St. Martin, his complete exegesis was from the plain reading of scripture and studies from the ECf's such as Augustine (the calvinist:thumbsup: ) and others.
 
Upvote 0

Reformationist

Non nobis domine sed tuo nomine da gloriam
Mar 7, 2002
14,273
465
52
✟44,595.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
In that small sense yes, one can call them a saint but it's pure conjecture, pure speculation, it's holding out the virtue of hope for them is what it is, hope is one of the three theological virtues that Christ died to give us.

Michelle, if your denomination had one ounce of authority in deciding whom the Lord reckons holy then this may carry some weight. As everything they pronounce is based on nothing more than conjecture that is based, itself, on the unbiblical premise upon which they operate, your opinion of Calvin is of very little value. It matters not to me that you are bothered by our admiration of him. If my views on Scripture were as unbiblical as those of your denomination and someone brought a great awareness to the unbiblical nature of those views as Calvin did to the teachings of your denomination, I wouldn't be too fond of them either.

In Christ we can have hope for anyone's salvation even two like Calvin and Luther because they were baptized, they were born again. Becuase of Christ, no one is ever with out hope.

Well, thankfully, for those of us who have a proper understanding of the mercy of God in pronouncing us simul iustus et peccator for the sake of His Son's righteous atonement, Calvin and Luther will be with God in Heaven due to His grace in imputing unto them the merit of Christ's vicarious atonement, and not because of their obedience.
 
  • Like
Reactions: sunlover1
Upvote 0

Reformationist

Non nobis domine sed tuo nomine da gloriam
Mar 7, 2002
14,273
465
52
✟44,595.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Your faith comes down to you from the Puritans who came from England to America to establish a anti Catholic, anti Anglican, anti anything that does not agree with them, world.

My faith comes from God, for it is a gift of His grace. I am not arrogant enough to assume, as you clearly do, that I believe because I'm smarter than the non-believer. The Puritans, thankfully, saw the corruption in the Catholic faith and, thus, cast aside the traditions of man in favor of the simple doctrine of God's grace in redemption. That your denomination has yet to realize its arrogance regarding God's grace in redemption is not within my power to rectify.

It didn't work out for them... Catholicism flourished none the less but what it did do is create this phenomena of religious hatred and bias.

I think it is working out just fine. Many people recognize the anthropocentric nature of your denomination's teachings and have embraced the God centered awareness of the doctrines of grace.

So back to my point, it's a little, pot calling the kettle blackish to get offended because we do not view Calvin in the same light as you do.

I'm not offended by your disdain for Calvin. To me it's evidence that he strikes at the heart of the self-centered doctrines of your faith. I'd be more surprised if you did have something nice to say about Calvin than the fact that you don't. What I've found ridiculous is that you and yours presume to have a corner on the saint title, as if it is so simply because your denomination says so. Utter drivel in my opinion. The "great" saint is the one through whom God accomplishes His will because God, not man, is sovereign, for that greatness reflects the grace and mercy of God.

He can not be called a saint simply because his life examined reveals he did not possess any of the fruits of a great Saint.

Just because your denomination does not recognize the God centered teachings of Calvin doesn't minimize his role in God's plan to reveal the unbiblical teachings of your denomination, whether you call him "great" or not. It really matters very little, as your church disregards the Truth of the Gospel for the self imposed "authority" of your denomination.
 
Upvote 0

Rick Otto

The Dude Abides
Nov 19, 2002
34,112
7,406
On The Prairie
✟29,593.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
BenedictaWhich 90% has been proven to be either a myth and or a out right lie.
10% of which is perfectly explainable &/or forgiveable of those cuddly Popes!

But it doesn't matter, John Paul ll made amends with all the world religions and apologized for any atrocities the Church did commit if she had committed any.
That's right! One Papal Apology only a few centuries later... so we're good now, right?

So... what's your point? When has any of the Protestant communities ever apologised and did penance for the factual mass murder the Reformation resulted in?
Easy with the bold print there, fella... We're sorry we forced freedom of religion down your throat, not to mention freedom of speech & democracy...:cry:

Well...? when has any protestant leader ever apologize and did penance for any of the atrocities the Reformers indeed committed in God's name?
Does Billy Graham kissing the pope's pinky ring count for nothin'!?!?...(or was that an atrocity?:scratch: )
 
Upvote 0

Imperiuz

Liberty will prevail
May 22, 2007
3,100
311
31
Stockholm
✟28,593.00
Country
Sweden
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Politics
UK-Independence-Party
We're sorry we forced freedom of religion down your throat, not to mention freedom of speech & democracy...
:doh:

Protestantism is not democratic! Here in Sweden you would be hanged in the nearest tree if you left the Church of Sweden untill the year 1796! Same thing for other Lutheran European contries.

Modern Democracy is a result of the 18:th century "enlightment".
 
Upvote 0

Rick Otto

The Dude Abides
Nov 19, 2002
34,112
7,406
On The Prairie
✟29,593.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
The very act of standing up to Rome/s abuses led to democracy:

"Finally, centuries of mistreatment at the hands of monarchies and the church brought average citizens in Europe to a breaking point, and the most intelligent and vocal finally decided to speak out.
...
Although Hobbes would be more influential among his contemporaries, it was clear that Locke’s message was closer to the English people’s hearts and minds. Just before the turn of the century, in 1688, English Protestants helped overthrow the Catholic king James II and installed the Protestant monarchs William and Mary. In the aftermath of this Glorious Revolution, the English government ratified a new Bill of Rights that granted more personal freedoms."
http://www.sparknotes.com/history/european/enlightenment/summary.html

The Pope's Syllabus of Errors denounces democracy, freedom of speech & freedom of religion. Have you read it?
 
Upvote 0

Imperiuz

Liberty will prevail
May 22, 2007
3,100
311
31
Stockholm
✟28,593.00
Country
Sweden
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Politics
UK-Independence-Party
That's in England. Most Protestant kingdom's did not get any freedom of religion until after the "enlightment". In case of our Protestant neighbours, the Danish, in 1867.

democracy
Yes everything get's better when you give 2 people who have never read a book double the political influence of, let's say, Plato. God did not made Israel a democracy, he made it a monarchy under God.

Democracy is all about fooling the stupid majority.

freedom of speech
That contradicts order. Then, the servant's of the Devil can fool people without getting punished for it.

freedom of religion
Yes, no one must blaspheme God! "freedom of speech" is one of the reasons that so many are atheists and heretics today and the reason that Satanism does even exist. I say Down with "freedom of religion"!
 
Upvote 0

Benedicta00

Well-Known Member
Jun 25, 2003
28,512
838
Visit site
✟55,563.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Private
My faith comes from God, for it is a gift of His grace. I am not arrogant enough to assume, as you clearly do, that I believe because I'm smarter than the non-believer. The Puritans, thankfully, saw the corruption in the Catholic faith and, thus, cast aside the traditions of man in favor of the simple doctrine of God's grace in redemption. That your denomination has yet to realize its arrogance regarding God's grace in redemption is not within my power to rectify.



I think it is working out just fine. Many people recognize the anthropocentric nature of your denomination's teachings and have embraced the God centered awareness of the doctrines of grace.



I'm not offended by your disdain for Calvin. To me it's evidence that he strikes at the heart of the self-centered doctrines of your faith. I'd be more surprised if you did have something nice to say about Calvin than the fact that you don't. What I've found ridiculous is that you and yours presume to have a corner on the saint title, as if it is so simply because your denomination says so. Utter drivel in my opinion. The "great" saint is the one through whom God accomplishes His will because God, not man, is sovereign, for that greatness reflects the grace and mercy of God.



Just because your denomination does not recognize the God centered teachings of Calvin doesn't minimize his role in God's plan to reveal the unbiblical teachings of your denomination, whether you call him "great" or not. It really matters very little, as your church disregards the Truth of the Gospel for the self imposed "authority" of your denomination.
No, your faith, i.e set of beliefs which include anti Catholic bias and disdain, hatred for the pope, was brought over here on the mayflower.

Calvinism came from Calvin, hence it's called Calvinism. Your belief originated in the 16th century and 300 years later it was brought over here on a boat and because of paranoia, thinking the pope wanted to take over the new world, anti Catholic rhetoric and propaganda (aka lies, myths and misconceptions) spread about.

Ppl in America who hate the Catholic Church do so because of the bigotry and discrimination the early English colonist created out of a inordinate fear of the Church. IOW, you were taught to hate the Church.
 
Upvote 0

Benedicta00

Well-Known Member
Jun 25, 2003
28,512
838
Visit site
✟55,563.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Private
SZ,
was from the plain reading of scripture and studies from the ECf's such as Augustine

There is no such thing as "plain reading." None of us plainly read. We are subjective beings by nature. What all of us read will be subjective and never objective. We to some extent are incapable of objectivity.

That's why Christ ave us a Church... not Martin Luther's spin.
 
Upvote 0

sunlover1

Beloved, Let us love one another
Nov 10, 2006
26,146
5,348
Under the Shadow of the Almighty
✟102,311.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
No, your faith, i.e set of beliefs which include anti Catholic bias and disdain, hatred for the pope, was brought over here on the mayflower.

Calvinism came from Calvin, hence it's called Calvinism. Your belief originated in the 16th century and 300 years later it was brought over here on a boat and because of paranoia, thinking the pope wanted to take over the new world, anti Catholic rhetoric and propaganda (aka lies, myths and misconceptions) spread about.

Ppl in America who hate the Catholic Church do so because of the bigotry and discrimination the early English colonist created out of a inordinate fear of the Church. IOW, you were taught to hate the Church.

I'm sure this may be true for some, but it's not a universal affirmative.

And just because someone disagrees with catholicism,
doesnt necessarily make them a hater.

I disagree with many 'doctrines' but not because
someone else said to.
God gave us a spirit of love and of power and of a
sound mind, and we have the mind of Christ and
hold the thoughts and purposes of Christ in our hearts.
He gave us a brain and reasoning ability, we gotta
use it, shoot dang.
:thumbsup:
 
Upvote 0

Rick Otto

The Dude Abides
Nov 19, 2002
34,112
7,406
On The Prairie
✟29,593.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
"thinking the pope wanted to take over the new world"
Columbus had to include spreading Christendom in his agenda or he never would've gotten Catholic funding to get here.
The RCC teaches people to hate it. You blame Reformers for the hate that was shown them by the RCC! How cuddly were Prots supposed to be with their killers?
"What all of us read will be subjective and never objective."
True, but this not license to ignore common sense.
That's why Christ ave us a Church... not Martin Luther's spin.
A Church, not a Pope. Reforming the lie of works based salvation is Un-Spin. That is why it is called Reform. The truth had been so corrupted that the common practices were becoming equaly corrupt.

Scarlet Crusader is at least honest about his antipathy toward civil liberty.
 
Upvote 0

Benedicta00

Well-Known Member
Jun 25, 2003
28,512
838
Visit site
✟55,563.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Private
Sorry guys, but it is what it is. do some research into early American history.

Anti Catholicism is that last acceptable bias we have here.

Sun, are you reading the thread? How can you say they guys aren't anti Catholic?

You also need to read the Calvinist profession of faith. It goes way beyond just disagreeing, being anti Catholic is pretty much a creed to them. It's very much part of what they believe.
 
Upvote 0

simonthezealot

have you not read,what God has spoken unto you?
Apr 17, 2006
16,461
1,919
Minnesota
✟27,453.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Sorry guys, but it is what it is. do some research into early American history.

Anti Catholicism is that last acceptable bias we have here.

Sun, are you reading the thread? How can you say they guys aren't anti Catholic?

You also need to read the Calvinist profession of faith. It goes way beyond just disagreeing, being anti Catholic is pretty much a creed to them. It's very much part of what they believe.
I wouldn't call it so much anti-catholic as I would Pro-scripture.
 
Upvote 0

Benedicta00

Well-Known Member
Jun 25, 2003
28,512
838
Visit site
✟55,563.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Private
What is anti-Catholicism?
This page is devoted to identifying anti-Catholicism on the Web. Anti-Catholicism (like anti-Semitism in some ways) is not easy to define. I am often tempted to apply the "definition" of pornography advanced by Justice Stewart of the United States Supreme Court: "I can't define it, but I know it when I see it."

My definition is drawn from the history of anti-Catholicism in America: I believe that modern anti-Catholicism continues (with some interesting variations) the religious themes of the Protestant Reformation and the secular (anti-clerical) themes of the Enlightenment and post-Enlightenment periods. In the United States these two strands became intertwined in nineteenth century Nativism, and they have continued (though attenuated) up to the present. Their presence on the Web simply reflects the fact that all kinds of ideas (mainstream and marginal) are now disseminated in this way.

Anti-Catholic themes may be loosely categorized as follows:

attacking Catholicism as being un-Christian or a cult (in the pejorative and not the sociological sense);

ridiculing or misinterpreting Catholic doctrine or practice;

ascribing to the Catholic Church a sinister role in an anti-Christian or anti-American conspiracy;

distorting or taking out of context illegal or scandalous behavior (especially sexual misconduct) by Catholic clergy or laity.

I label a web-site as anti-Catholic if it falls into one or more of the above categories. Obviously, there are some gray areas: How to distinguish between anti-Catholicism and legitimate differences with the Catholic Church? Further, given the ever widening sexual scandal which has engulfed the Catholic Church in the past few years, a great deal of material has appeared on the Net which is highly critical of the Catholic Church but which cannot be considered anti-Catholic. How to decide when a site crosses the line? These are difficult questions and I have indicated any site about which I have doubts. I am always willing to discuss this question with anyone who disagrees with me. Surprisingly, only one person has ever challenged my description of his site as anti-Catholic; even more surprisingly, a number of webmasters have written and asked that their sites be linked. (One correspondant asked if his site was not "anti-Catholic enough" to be included.)

Over the years, a number of people have urged me to label as anti-Catholic any site containing the views of Catholics who are dissenting from the teachings of the Church hierarchy. (Most of these are liberal, but there are a few conservative ones. Examples of such sites can be found by searching for "liberal catholic" and "anti-catholic" on any search engine.) I have refused and will continue to do so. My goal is to document the continuing presence on the Net of one of the oldest prejudices in America, and I do not want to be sidetracked by the internecine wars within Catholicism.

When I first created this site (roughly 10 years ago), my goal was to be comprehensive and provide a link to every anti-Catholic site on the web. Up to the last revision in 2000 this was possible (barely). However, in recent years the number of such sites has grown exponentially and I am no longer able to link to them all. In this most recent revision my goal is to update all the links and add some of the many links which have been sent to me in the past four years. I welcome all suggestions for new links, even if I am not able to add every one which is sent to me.

On August 13, 2004, I completed a major overhaul of this site, the first since August, 2000. In the future I hope to make more frequent updates.

On August 24, 2005, I completed a minor update. I hope to add a large collection of links which were sent to me by a reader in the near future.

Finally, a personal note: I am a Roman Catholic and a lay Franciscan brother. My views are not easily categorized as either "liberal" or "conservative" since I hold strong views in both directions. (Some indication of this can be seen by the links on my personal home-page.) I became interested in anti-Catholicism in America when I was in college and I found a copy of Keith Green's The Catholic Chronicles outside a Catholic Church. This web site was a natural outgrowth.

The rest of this site is organized as follows:

Religous Anti-Catholic Sites

An extensive collection of anti-Catholic web-sites maintained by various Protestant groups. Many are devoted to "saving" Catholics. Also of interest are the attacks on fellow Protestants who are perceived as being "soft" on Catholics.

Secular Anti-Catholic Sites
A smaller collection of secular anti-Catholic web-sites. Many of these are not specifically anti-Catholic: rather, this is one facet of a more general anti-Christian stance. Never-the-less, many of the themes of historical anti-Catholicism appear in them.

The History of Anti-Catholicism

Sites which document the history of anti-Catholicism, primarily in the United States but also in England. This also contains links to electronic versions of classical anti-Catholic works. (Many of these are being republished by groups identified above.)

Catholic Responses to Anti-Catholicism

Catholic individuals and organizations (most quite conservative) which are responding vigorously to the dissemination of anti-Catholic material by presenting both specific responses and general Catholic apologetics. This has resulted in a curiously isolated debate between these two camps.


Controversial Topics
Links to material about controversial subjects (e.g. abortion) in which either anti-Catholic references appear or charges of anti-Catholicism are made. Many of these are ephemeral and I suspect that these links will change frequently.

http://www2.trincoll.edu/~dcruzuri/anti-catholic/anti-catholic.html

Sunlover, with all due respect to you, I don't think you really know what anti Catholicism is. if you think these guys here are merely disagreeing.. then you should go back with a more open mind and re read their posts.

Anti Catholicism is all we have on here. It's rampart and their rabid.
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.