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Spontaneous Life Generation in Lab is Impossible

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1. You assume Tiktaalik was meant to be transitional to tetrapods. However, even alternating limb movement predates that fossil, that doesn't mean it isn't still transitional to Elginerpeton, Ventastega, etc.
2. Furthermore, the presence of earlier alternating limb movement does not preempt the current proposed branching of extant tetrapods, merely suggests that some tetrapod may have been around sooner than we thought.
3. Even in your best case scenario, in which these tracks ultimately prove to be a tetrapod ancestor of extant species, then you are still left with a transitional form. That fossil would be a tetrapod ancestor of extant species.

Seriously, imagine the following conversation:
"frank has a dog"
"No he doesn't"
"Yeah, he does, here's a picture of him with it. It's a German Shepherd"
"Ha! that's not a German Shepherd! That's a Belgian Tervuren! TOLD you he didn't have a dog!"

Now, even if that guy was right about the dog that frank has not being a German Shepherd, the Belgian Tervuren is still a dog.
 
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stevevw

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interesting, however some are saying the study does not disprove common decent. In which there would still be a huge need for missing links to be in fact, found.

The Death of the Tree of Life is Greatly Exaggerated

Yes even though there will HGT it doesn't account for all variations. Darwin's Evolution through common decent will still need the morphing of one kind of animal to another and then another and so on. The head lines for Darwin's Tree being dead were a bit sensationalizing. But it has certainly changed the way they are making the tree and its becoming more of a web than a tree and linking creatures in other ways besides the traditional vertical transfer of genetics by parent to offspring and natural selection. Natural selection is not the only way genetic material can be obtained.

But maybe in the beginning there were a certain number of animals who were the heads of each group. They can have offspring's which can then crossbreed and make a certain number of new creatures and then they can also cross breed to a point. It happens in the simpler life forms like plants, sea life, bacteria and other microbes and there is evidence it occurred more than scientist realize with more complex animals. As time passed different animals continued on their particular path and became separate species which cannot breed successfully anymore with the original groups.

Also virus's could transfer gene or even sections of gnomes horizontally as well. There will be variation within the different animal groups as well by adaptation to their environments. The article you showed is maybe a little older . There has been more recent DNA evidence that has come out linking different creatures as well as some of the known so called ape men that were classed as separate species.

http://jonlieffmd.com/blog/jumping-genes-versus-epigenetics-the-real-drivers-of-evolution
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/02/100225091344.htm
http://molecularevolutionforum.blogspot.com.au/2014/03/horizontal-gene-transfer-takes-turn.html
 
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Armoured

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That's pretty perfect. What do you want to bet they don't get it?
 
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Paul of Eugene OR

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Thank you for all that convincing evidence that Tiktaalik is an linking form between fish and vertebrates.
 
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Heissonear

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To keep this thread on track, the discussion is to be generation of life in the lab, even to derive controlled environmental conditions and chemical constituents to then generate through natural biochemical processes replicating biomolecules like RNA abd DNA. And then on to replicating forms of life from non-life materials, as stated to occur by Naturalistic Scientists.

And to keep this matter in perspective, natural man still has no clue how life came about from non-life materals! But they promote such HAS HAPPENED. Then prove it.

.
 
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Smidlee

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Now you are referring to modern creatures and just look of how many surprised we found in the living animals. If all we had of hedgehogs were fossils they would swear it's a marsupial. Evoultionist has to do a lot of cherry picking of fossils to get anything to fit their fairytale.

http://www.scienceagainstevolution.org/v10i8n.htm


In the end it makes no difference if Tikaalik is really missing link or not as evolutionist will just replace one fairytale for another.

I agree to that.
 
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Paul of Eugene OR

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If life appeared naturally, it will be possible to create life in the lab. So if and when life is created in the lab, that will count in favor of the idea that life could have appeared naturally, although of course, all by itself, that would be insufficient to establish that life did appear naturally.

Natural appearing life would have started with simpler self duplicating molecules of some sort. That start would not have been a full scale living cell as we know it. Only evolution from self duplicating molecules could naturally account for the first full scale living cell as we know it. Creation could also account for it, of course, but that wouldn't be "natural".
 
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Now you are referring to modern creatures and just look of how many surprised we found in the living animals. If all we had of hedgehogs were fossils they would swear it's a marsupial.

Why on earth would we think that?
 
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stevevw

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Aren't a lot of scientist now saying that the building blocks for life may have come from somewhere else in space. It may have hitched a ride on a meteor to give a jump start to creating life. Such is the difficulty in overcoming some of the things to start life and transform it into a living cell that they now have to look outside of earth to explain things. By expanding the possibilities it allows more scope to come up with an explanation. But doesn't this only diverts the problem else where.
 
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createdtoworship

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but universal common decent fails on many levels at this point:

here is a clip from an article on it:

"interesting: how does a "reticulate evolutionary process" square with universal common descent? They give examples: the yeast phylogenetic data can only be force-fit into a tree, but then, "a species tree becomes only a mathematical average estimate of evolutionary history, and even if it is supported it suppresses conflicting phylogenetic signals." It's misleading, in other words.

Another example is the tree of placental mammals: "a problem that has been difficult to resolve as a bifurcating process because different genetic datasets support different trees." Wriggling out of the tree-thinking straitjacket can resolve these controversies: "the network provides biological explanations that go beyond what can be accommodated by a simple tree model."

Up with Networks

The team believes that network theory has matured to the point where it can be a valuable tool for biologists. It also promises job opportunities: "The further improvement of networks for evolutionary biology offers many outstanding opportunities for mathematicians, statisticians, and computer scientists."


Demolishing Darwin's Tree: Eric Bapteste and the Network of Life - Evolution News & Views

this is my last post regarding biological evolution, the topic of the thread is on chemical evolution as found by miller urey etc.
 
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stevevw

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Yeah thanks for that I have seen some of these examples and it is very interesting.
 
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Smidlee

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[serious];65572206 said:
Why on earth would we think that?
This was bought out during the Dover trial. It was question of how homology (based on morphology) helps support evolution. According to the evolution fairytale the marsupial wolf (thylacine) is more closer related to a kangaroo than the placental wolf. There are less differences between the marsupial wolf and the placental wolf than there are between man and chimps. This is one of the examples of evolutionist having to cherry pick similarities in order to fit their imaginary tree.
During the trial they compared the skulls of kangaroo and the two wolves and pick out characteristics to make the case the marsupial wolf were more similar to the kangaroo than the placental wolf. This was some serious cherry picking since it so happen the hedgehog also had many of the same features that was giving to the marsupial.
This shows just how useless homology is to evolution. "Of Panda and People" got it was right. The only real difference between marsupial and placental is their mode of reproduction.
 
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What specific similarities are you talking about? Do hedgehogs have an epipubic bone I'm unaware of? Do they lack an ossified patella?
 
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Smidlee

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[serious];65576634 said:
What specific similarities are you talking about? Do hedgehogs have an epipubic bone I'm unaware of? Do they lack an ossified patella?
Even evolutionist believe there were mammals who had epipublic bone that wasn't marsupial in the past.
 
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Even evolutionist believe there were mammals who had epipublic bone that wasn't marsupial in the past.

Is the hedgehog one of them? I've no doubt that there were animals that shared some features with marsupials that weren't marsupials. After all, that is exactly what would be expected if marsupials evolved, intermediates.

The better question would be, is the following statement true?
If all we had of hedgehogs were fossils they would swear it's a marsupial.
So far no reason has been proposed for such a grouping. The common skeletal differences between marsupials and other mammals don't seem to indicate any potentially confusing findings.
 
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Smidlee

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[serious];65585291 said:
Is the hedgehog one of them? I've no doubt that there were animals that shared some features with marsupials that weren't marsupials. After all, that is exactly what would be expected if marsupials evolved, intermediates.
It's so easy to cherry pick only those features that they want to support their imaginary tree. There even different trees depending which features are cherry picked to support ones tree. Evolutionist didn't expect the evidence pointing in so many different directions that now some have traded in their tree for a bush.
 
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BL2KTN

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In other words, there's no reason anyone would think a hedgehog was a marsupial. If you had found any possible way, you would have posted it.
 
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Smidlee

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In other words, there's no reason anyone would think a hedgehog was a marsupial. If you had found any possible way, you would have posted it.
If you uses the reasoning they used at the Dover trial. Of course everyone already knows hedgehog isn't a marsupial.
 
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BL2KTN

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Smidlee said:
If you uses the reasoning they used at the Dover trial. Of course everyone already knows hedgehog isn't a marsupial.

Why would anybody use the reasoning they had at the Dover trial? A dolphin looks more like a shark than a human, yet the human and the dolphin are much more closely related. It's elementary.
 
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That isn't an answer to my question. You said the "hedgehog also had many of the same features that was giving to the marsupial." Which features?

You said, "If all we had of hedgehogs were fossils they would swear it's a marsupial." I'm still waiting for an explanation of exactly why we would think that.
 
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