SPLC issues apology for putting Dr Ben Carson on extremist watch list

[DaisyDay]

I wonder if they have made other "mistakes".

Since they document their findings, you can check.

 

[nightflight]

Since they document their findings, you can check.

No thanks. The fact that they disparaged a good man like Ben Carson and only retracted after public outrage tells me enough.

 

[Marius27]

Noting that the SPLC's hate classifications lack objectivity.

FRC is objectively hateful.

 

[Marius27]

No thanks. The fact that they disparaged a good man like Ben Carson and only retracted after public outrage tells me enough.

His comments on gays don't indicate he's a very good man.

 

[Maynard Keenan]

While it's questionable if Carson should have been listed on the SPLC page, the SPLC critics are being deliberately dishonest in describing the SPLC's listing. Take the quote Daily Caller used to illustrate the SPLC's case:

“Marriage is between a man and a woman; It’s a well-established pillar of society.”

On its face, this looks like an absurd thing to use to show someone is an extremist. But here's the full quote:

“Marriage is between a man and a woman. It’s a well-established pillar of society and no group, be they gays, be they NAMBLA [North American Man/Boy Association, a group advocating pedophilia], be they people who believe in bestiality—it doesn’t matter what they are, they don’t get to change the definition.”

The quote wasn't used because he says marriage is between a man and a woman. The quote was used because he lumps homosexuality in with pedophilia and bestiality, a common tactic of anti-lgbt hate groups. As I said in another thread on this, Carson is a Christianist like so many of America's Christian right. They seek to bind us all by the rules prescribed by their religion. And he certainly has made comments that I consider, and increasingly society as a whole is coming to consider, extremist and hateful. But one or two quotes, and quotes that are just crazy like comparing Obamacare to slavery and the US government to the Nazi regime, don't necessarily mean he should be listed in hateful extremist files. They do mean he's a nut who should be allowed nowhere near the office of the presidency.

 

[NightHawkeye]

The quote wasn't used because he says marriage is between a man and a woman. The quote was used because he lumps homosexuality in with pedophilia and bestiality, a common tactic of anti-lgbt hate groups.

You may call it a tactic if you like, but it's a legitimate question.

If marriage is not strictly between a man and a woman, then what other objective standard exists to define what exactly might constitute marriage. Polygamy seems to be de facto legal now, given that we already have a couple of TV shows on polygamy and court rulings which support it. What's the next marriage barrier to fall?

 

[His777]

No thanks. The fact that they disparaged a good man like Ben Carson and only retracted after public outrage tells me enough.

Amen. Seems that part of their agenda to disparage those they disagree with. I don't think they originally
set up shop to do that.

 

[brewmama]

Honestly, I find Ben Carson's views, especially on economics, to be questionable, but I don't think that he is a hateful extremist. Just kind of a pundit.


Yeah, because it's not like that group was a hate group actively distributing false information about gays, like that they're all pedophiles and stuff.

Oh, wait...

Edit: Also, the SPLC is not responsible for what a lone crazy person does. They've never advocated violence towards any of the groups they label as hate groups, and "inspiring" a crazy person is as easy as existing, because crazy people are not rational.

True, but conservative "hate speech" is blamed for crimes all the time. It's not a 2 way street.

 

[JustOneWay]

No thanks. The fact that they disparaged a good man like Ben Carson and only retracted after public outrage tells me enough.

Carson disparages people all the time. You know what they say about payback....

 

[Maynard Keenan]

You may call it a tactic if you like, but it's a legitimate question.

If marriage is not strictly between a man and a woman, then what other objective standard exists to define what exactly might constitute marriage. Polygamy seems to be de facto legal now, given that we already have a couple of TV shows on polygamy and court rulings which support it. What's the next marriage barrier to fall?

The objective standard is, where there is not a compelling government interest in preventing the union (Risks from inbreeding in incestual relations, the incompatibility of multi-party unions in the framework of government benefits, tax law, employer benefits that would presumably be required to be provided to more than one spouse), then so long as two adults of sound mind consent, they can marry. Pedophilia is right out as a marriage because we don't allow children to enter into contractual agreements of any sort, and children are presumed incapable of giving true informed consent to sexual relations. Bestiality or marriage to inanimate objects is right out because animals and objects can not give consent or enter into legal contracts. It's very simple.

 

[NightHawkeye]

It's very simple.

I don't think it's quite that simple. Age of consent laws are being called into question these days. Obviously, there are people who want to move the barriers further still.

 

[Maynard Keenan]

It's worth noting that in the 18th and 19th century, age of consent in the US ranged from 12 down to as low as 7 years old. It is modern ideas of soundness of mind and ability to give meaningful consent that have even given rise to the idea that marriage to and sex with a 13 year old girl is wrong. Traditionally, it was accepted in Christian society.

 

[Maynard Keenan]

I don't think it's quite that simple. Age of consent laws are being called into question these days. Obviously, there are people who want to move the barriers further still.

The barriers to age of consent have been moved to be more strict, not the opposite. And there is no appreciable social movement to move these barriers back younger. There are, of course, your fringe pedophile/pederast types who want to be able to get away with it, but there is NO social support for these ideas. The only area where changes to these laws receive any serious scrutiny is on the margins - cases where, say, a 17 year old is charged with statutory rape of a 15 year old.

 

[brewmama]

Carson disparages people all the time. You know what they say about payback....

No, he does not!

 

[TerranceL]

Noting that an objective classification is not hate.

The SPLC isn't objective, it's political.

 

[JustOneWay]

No, he does not!

He does, and I am not the only one who noticed.

In recent weeks Alma College has heard from many alumni, students, faculty and friends who are concerned about the invitation we have extended to Dr. Ben Carson to speak on campus at the start of our annual Honors Day celebration.
Many have asked why we would invite an individual who has repeatedly made statements contrary to our college’s values, statements that disparage many in our community and world.

Is He Serious ? Ben Carson Grabs Headlines Comparing Obamacare To Slavery « CBS Atlanta

Disparaging the entire country

“I mean, [we are] very much like Nazi Germany. And I know you’re not supposed to say ‘Nazi Germany,’ but I don’t care about political correctness. You know, you had a government using its tools to intimidate the population. We now live in a society where people are afraid to say what they actually believe.”

Ben Carson: America's now 'very much like Nazi Germany' - Washington Times


This country is not like Nazi Germany. If this was Nazi Germany, we would not allow gays to be married, and we would give them pretty armbands. I wonder if Dr Carson understands who here in America wants to discriminate against gays?

 

[brewmama]

I know the manufactured outrage about those quotes, which are in reality neither extreme nor disparaging. I can't even believe you're serious.

 

[JustOneWay]

I know the manufactured outrage about those quotes,

What does this mean?

Do you agree in comparing America to Nazi Germany?

Do you agree that the ACA is like slavery?

 

[brewmama]

What does this mean?

Do you agree in comparing America to Nazi Germany?

Do you agree that the ACA is like slavery?

“You know Obamacare is really I think the worst thing that has happened in this nation since slavery,” “And it is in a way, it is slavery in a way, because it is making all of us subservient to the government, and it was never about health care. It was about control.”

Yes, I agree with this. What is the outrage about?

And yes, in some ways we are like early Nazi Germany. Not in all ways. Yet.

 

[JustOneWay]

It is good that you admit that the ACA is compared to slavery. At least we know that his outrageous comparison is OK with you.

According to his comparison, laws are the worst thing that has happened in this nation since slavery. After all, laws are all about control.

Police are the worst thing that has happened in this nation since slavery

Traffic lights the worst thing that has happened in this nation since slavery.

Religion is the worst thing that has happened in this nation since slavery.

All of these things came before the ACA.