Spiritual Physics

[Bobber]

I can't say much more but that was personal experience just as much as my father turning up the night he died. Take it or leave it - it's my opinion and that's all. I can't prove it.

Sure. You're entitled to have your opinion on it and I truly believe you experienced it. What actually REALLY took place though is another question. In the next world the Lord will confirm or tell you that no it wasn't really him.

You can either believe the testimony of many people who were there, or the skeptics who weren't there.

But skeptic were there. I did study on Fatima years back I'm sure numbers were saying the claims were exaggerated. Not that they were lying but when you mind is so longing to want to believe something truly supernatural is happening everything you're experiencing becomes magnified to want to believe that way.

Let me illustrate. I had a friend once who was selling magnetic products....that is chains for one's wrists or necklaces. The idea was if you wear these things the power of magnetism can heal you. He'd bring out his products and with a group of my friends he say now hold that......now do you feel that, do you feel the power??? I was shocked by some claiming, "Oh yeah I can!" Came to me and I said no Look if I don't feel anything I won't be saying I do. He said fine. I held the products.....Nope sorry.....I feel NOTHING. And I don't actually believe the few others did either but......the human mind can talk itself into believing something is really happening when it's not.

Take your pick. In addition they were staring at the sun for ten minutes and yet there were apparently no reports of eye damage. There should have been reports of sun induced damage all over the place. That was the third miracle.

I don't want to shoot down your religious belief here Bob. If you want to believe these things fine. But I don't believe any one was stupid enough to keep staring into the sun . We all do for moments at a time at sunset or whatever......but it doesn't mean we just stood there and glared without ever turning away. I'd say it's possible people were embellishing the story for effect.

I'm quite sure it was him. For one thing he said I needed to forgive him (for his lifelong cruelty) or I would destroy myself. He also added it wasn't for his benefit - "it's too late for me" he said. "All I was expected to do was to look after my own family and I didn't even do that. It's for you!"

It is a bizarre experience you had I give you that. I won't be convinced though it was in actual fact your father. You can though. Don't let me cramp your style.

Do you think a demon is going to tell you to forgive them, ot that you're at risk of destroying yourself if you don't?

The devil can be like a chess player. They give up one thing to draw a person into a hosts of other things.

Then there were some predictions. I'll only give one of a personal rather than political nature. He said "I served the devil. You do too, but you'll become a Christian" (I was an atheist at the time and not living a particularly good life).

Well Bob that doesn't substantiate it was from God through your father. I had the same thing happen to me (similarly anyway) Before becoming a Christian a friend of mine read Taro cards. I thought it was a joke thing or fun thing to have her read the cards about me. Wasn't too much of a joke as it turned out. She told me certain things would happen in my life one of which was a spiritual awakening. I scoffed at that. Five months later though all took place. So what takes place in the spirit realm for the devil to know this.....a spiritual awakening

when I have absolutely no desire for such at the time......well it works like this......you may see yourself a certain way.....you said you were an atheist .BUT spiritual forces see what is happening in the spirit. Satan or his Kingdom can see what the angels good ones are doing in the realm of the spirit. They see things are being lined up, circumstances to draw to you a certain end result. The dark Kingdom conclude it's just a matter of time and it will break upon them......they will become a Christian. By the way after I became a Christian I contacted my friend......warned them the Tarot card thing was opening the door

to the devil in her life......When she got my letter she told me she took those cards outside and burned them and she became a Christian too. So my point. Just because you from some source were told something about your future.....doesn't mean they were an agent of God but of the other kingdom.....satan's kingdom.....They can see what God's angels are setting up in your life.

 

[Bob Crowley]

But I don't believe any one was stupid enough to keep staring into the sun .

October 13: Vision

October 13 is the day in 1917 on which this photograph of a vision was taken near the then small town of Fátima, Portugal. It shows 70,000 people looking at the sun at the behest of three shepherd …

onthisdateinphotography.com

 

[Bobber]

October 13: Vision

October 13 is the day in 1917 on which this photograph of a vision was taken near the then small town of Fátima, Portugal. It shows 70,000 people looking at the sun at the behest of three shepherd …

onthisdateinphotography.com

View attachment 339449

Interesting picture Bob. Seen it before. But remember I said to keep staring into the Sun never giving one's sight a break from it for a moment. That's what I meant by KEEP staring.

 

[truthpls]

the perception our five senses afford us is not the truth of who we are, and therefore our souls measurement of reality is subjective ...

I think you are saying that there is more than meets the eye. I would have to agree. There is more than meets the eyes of science

 

[truthpls]

This has not been demonstrated. The miracles have not been demonstrated to have happened.

The claims of the Bible are unsubstantiated.

By who? You? People don't get to dismiss history and the records in the bible because they live in another time and only want to accept things that they think have been 'validated' recently. The things that fact checkers today validate can't be believed. So it has been through history, and the bible is the exception. Jesus validated the old testament by fulfilling the hundreds of prophesies it contained about Him. The prophesies about the future are now mostly history. The prophets did not make it into the Scripture if they were liars. They would be lucky to remain alive. There is NO validation to call Paul a liar. Peter, Jesus, John, or anyone else in Scripture that recorded experiences and events. None of them lived in a vacuum or bubble and simply slipped letters under a door. They were part of a community that carefully kept records and knew the people involved. To claim any of it was unsubstantiated is nothing more or less than choosing to reject it for no reason or rhyme.

 

[honey badger]

I think you are saying that there is more than meets the eye. I would have to agree. There is more than meets the eyes of science

For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it has been written: "He is the One catching the wise in their craftiness."

 

[Neogaia777]

This has not been demonstrated. The miracles have not been demonstrated to have happened.

The claims of the Bible are unsubstantiated.

Yes, I would like to know just exactly what you mean by "unsubstantiated" please? since there are a lot of you that say that, etc?

Do you just mean the miracles, or the history, or just "what" exactly?

And also, do you mean it is all just flat out "lies" maybe, etc?

Please tell us what you mean, etc?

Not supported by evidence maybe? Or just "what" exactly, etc?

And I would also like to add that you don't get to reject or deny history outright just because you don't like it, etc.

It's not like all of these people were dishonest, and said "hey, let's get together and tell a lot of lies", etc.

Because that didn't happen, etc.

So the only logical reason or course of action is that the truth is either what they said it was, or that it's somewhere in-between, etc.

So please tell us what you mean please, etc?

God Bless.

 

[Neogaia777]

Yes, I would like to know just exactly what you mean by "unsubstantiated" please? since there are a lot of you that say that, etc?

Do you just mean the miracles, or the history, or just "what" exactly?

And also, do you mean it is all just flat out "lies" maybe, etc?

Please tell us what you mean, etc?

Not supported by evidence maybe? Or just "what" exactly, etc?

And I would also like to add that you don't get to reject or deny history outright just because you don't like it, etc.

It's not like all of these people were dishonest, and said "hey, let's get together and tell a lot of lies", etc.

Because that didn't happen, etc.

So the only logical reason or course of action is that the truth is either what they said it was, or that it's somewhere in-between, etc.

So please tell us what you mean please, etc?

God Bless.

You all could just maybe be 100% honest yourselves maybe, and just simply say that you can't believe in, especially the miracles in the Bible, since we've personally seen no personal evidence of such since then, or in our modern day times, etc.

And that would at least be a step towards being honest at least, etc.

But don't call everything and everyone else (or history) a liar just because you can't bring yourselves to believe in our modern day times, etc.

Because that's a pretty pathetic cop-out, etc.

Let's just simply say that, in our modern day times, that you have no faith, or can't bring yourselves to have any faith in our modern day times, and let's just simply leave it at that shall we?

God Bless.

 

[dlamberth]

So the only logical reason or course of action is that the truth is either what they said it was, or that it's somewhere in-between, etc.

My understanding is that the stories were first past down by story telling. Which was the main way of transmission back in the day. And as the stores were told, being religious in nature, mystery was introduced or amplified in order to raised religious intrigue.

 

[Neogaia777]

My understanding is that the stories were first past down by story telling. Which was the main way of transmission back in the day. And as the stores were told, being religious in nature, mystery was introduced or amplified in order to raised religious intrigue.

No it mainly was not, which is why they wrote it down, etc.

They assumed it was history to them back then, etc, and very little of it was changed or "amplified to raise religious intrigue", and no "mystery" was added to it either beyond it just being their own history to them, etc.

God Bless.

 

[Larniavc]

People don't get to dismiss history and the records in the bible because they live in another time and only want to accept things that they think have been 'validated' recently.

Yeah, they do.

 

[Larniavc]

October 13: Vision

October 13 is the day in 1917 on which this photograph of a vision was taken near the then small town of Fátima, Portugal. It shows 70,000 people looking at the sun at the behest of three shepherd …

onthisdateinphotography.com

View attachment 339449

 

[Neogaia777]

Yeah, they do.

I find that kind of denial to be invalid, etc.

God Bless.

 

[Larniavc]

So please tell us what you mean please, etc?

The Bible makes the claims it does but it does nothing more than claim.

 

[Neogaia777]

The Bible makes the claims it does but it does nothing more than claim.

Well, it's not all made up by a bunch of people who all conspired together in some kind of great grand conspiracy to just flat out just blatantly lie about a bunch of things, if that's what you're getting at, etc.

Some of it has to be true, etc.

Which parts of it is I guess is up to you, etc.

God Bless.

 

[Neogaia777]

The Bible makes the claims it does but it does nothing more than claim.

I understand that claims from almost 2000 years ago now are difficult to believe, but I believe a lot of it to be true, etc.

God Bless.

 

[Larniavc]

Well, it's not all made up by a bunch of people who all conspired together in some kind of great grand conspiracy to just flat out just blatantly lie about a bunch of things, if that's what you're getting at, etc.

Why not? Seems more likely than talking donkeys, healing the blind and raising the dead.

 

[Larniavc]

Some of it has to be true, etc.

Yeah but you must admit the magical alternate realities and miraculous events can be false while the existence of Rome can be real.

 

[Larniavc]

but I believe a lot of it to be true, etc.

Yeah, but isn’t that based on hope that unseen things are actually real?

 

[Neogaia777]

Why not? Seems more likely than talking donkeys, healing the blind and raising the dead.

I guess I weigh that out on the balance scales a bit differently than you I guess, etc.

God Bless.