Spiritual Marriage:

[Stealth001]

These people, whoever they are, are not my authorities. I do not know them or recognize them and there is nothing saying they have any authority in the matter.

Ron Paul is a leading libertarian politician.

Matt Trewhella is a liberty focused pastor.

Both reside here in the United States.

 

[ValleyGal]

And...no offence... but... you are a woman.

However... men have far more to lose from the court systems. I live in what is called "a mother state". That means the mother has all the power regarding the custody and well being of the child... unless terrible abuse can be proven. It also means that it's a given that I'll not only lose any chance at full custody, but I have to pay "spousal support" and "child support"... and she's the one who cheated on me, broke the bank account, trashed the car, refused counseling, and essentially abandoned me. LOL

Justice in the family court system is a JOKE if you're a man.

Never before in history has a man had more to lose by getting married. That's why I say men should take back the institution of marriage. Push and politic for binding Contract Marriages. Let's get back to the way marriage was for THOUSANDS of years... the way God truly intended it.

No offense? You make a sexist comment and you say no offense??? I have no more to lose or gain than my husband does.

You are using your anger to justify your sin, but you are unwilling due to your hard heart, to see it. You blame the state, you blame the government, you blame divorce courts, you blame the ex wife. You are angry and bitter about how much it has all cost you and how you are so hard done by just because you are a man. And now you are projecting all that anger and blame onto your future "spiritual wife" by not doing what is right in God's eyes by marrying her.

Imho, you need healing and you need to extend grace and forgiveness. In the garden, Adam blamed his wife...and then he blamed God..."the wife YOU gave me!" You are doing exactly what Adam did. If you do not heal from your first marriage and divorce, you will take those same issues into this "spiritual" marriage and it will likely end up in the same divorce court you were in when your first, legal marriage dissolved.

Soften your heart, ask God to soften your heart. Pray for your ex wife, pray for the judge who issued your divorce. Pray for the lawyers who you blame for making it worse. Pray for your government. Seek his truth in the Bible, not in historical stuff, and be open to those whose view is different than your own. Don't only listen to what your itching ears want to hear. These are Christian forums, and you won't find much in the way of validation of sin.

I think freakazoid makes an excellent observation. You are likely angry because you know what you are doing is wrong, but do not want to admit it...and anger is a cover for pain. You have been deeply wounded and those wounds have not healed. Imo, if you have a "spiritual marriage" at this point, it will only be rubbing salt in the wounds.

 

[ValleyGal]

Ron Paul is a leading libertarian politician.

Matt Trewhella is a liberty focused pastor.

Both reside here in the United States.

That's why I've never heard of them... even if I were American, I would not be libertarian because it is anti-biblical. God placed the authorities over us, and I will honour my government as long as it does not make me dishonour God.

 

[Stealth001]

That's why I've never heard of them... even if I were American, I would not be libertarian because it is anti-biblical. God placed the authorities over us, and I will honour my government as long as it does not make me dishonour God.

In my opinion, the current state marriage institution does dishonor God. Everyone one of us is forced to embrace the "no fault" clause for divorce. That's not biblical. Each of us is forced to embrace the fact that we have to go before a court of the unbelievers to dissolve our marriages. Each of us is forced to abide by the state's standards, meaning for Jews, their ketubah is thrown out like it's toilet paper. Each of us has to embrace the court's ruling even if the settlement is unfair to the innocent party.

Therefore, it's unacceptable to me on religious grounds. Rank me with the Quakers. lol

A private contract could stipulate that the party who breaches the marriage contract forfeits all spousal support and is only granted weekend visitations with children. Breaches of contract could be defined biblically for Christians and Jews (honoring the ketubah). Now, if the state would honor that private contractural agreement... wouldn't that make people think long and hard about if they wanted to marry? No more rushing into marriage without serious thought. Also, it would make people think twice before violating said marriage contract. It would also give opportunity for grace. Let's say that the contract only grants visitation to the one who breaches the contract. The innocent party could issue a divorce decree granting partial custody (something more than the contract states) as long as both parties agree and it is notarized. If the government were to honor private marriage contracts... it would give marriage some real teeth and protect those who do not breach the contract.

 

[dayhiker]

Stealth - When I studied marriage a few years ago, I found the same information that you have been posting. Interesting that people want to live Biblically, then you tell them what the Bible is saying in its historical context and people ignore it and even say we the one the ones who are sinning! Well, just as the Bible says it would be.

I find it hard to side with my government when it is promoting war now for over 10 years now. Really, most of my life the US has been at war, yet never calls it war. There isn't one of those wars that the church in America has denounced. Most churches have supported them! The right wants us to spend even more money on weapons of war when we already spend more on war than all the other countries combined.

I find a loving relationship much more pleasing to God.

 

[Stealth001]

No offense? You make a sexist comment and you say no offense??? I have no more to lose or gain than my husband does.

Maybe in your locality in Canada. In Ohio... it's a "mother state". For me, being a male, it's an uphill battle to get joint custody. It's a given that I'll pay spousal support, child support, and have limited custody... even though she is the one who committed adultery and abandoned me. That's just the cold had facts where I am.

You are using your anger to justify your sin, but you are unwilling due to your hard heart, to see it. You blame the state, you blame the government, you blame divorce courts, you blame the ex wife. You are angry and bitter about how much it has all cost you and how you are so hard done by just because you are a man. And now you are projecting all that anger and blame onto your future "spiritual wife" by not doing what is right in God's eyes by marrying her.

I prefer to call it righteous indignation. And I am not projecting my anger. Her ex husband was a military man. He used the military legal assistance system to rake her over the coals because she couldn't afford the legal representation it would have taken to fight him. She has her beef with the system too. We want to protect ourselves from the injustices. Be a little open minded here and try to understand instead of trying to force your view. I respect your view. If you want a civil marriage, I don't judge you. I'm sharing my experience, my feelings, and what I desire concerning the matter. That's all.

Imho, you need healing and you need to extend grace and forgiveness. In the garden, Adam blamed his wife...and then he blamed God..."the wife YOU gave me!" You are doing exactly what Adam did. If you do not heal from your first marriage and divorce, you will take those same issues into this "spiritual" marriage and it will likely end up in the same divorce court you were in when your first, legal marriage dissolved.

Negatory Sis. I'll never go back to that court. That's my point. NEVER. I didn't cheat or abuse my wife. She started rolling with some work friends who were into open marriage. She met a guy who was exciting, worldly, and who dressed nice and allowed herself to be seduced. Then she tried to get me to agree to an open marriage to continue seeing him. I refused. I became very angry. She took that and ran with it as though I was being abusive. No, I was angry with a woman who was throwing our lives away. I pleaded for her to agree to marriage counseling. Why? I forgave her and wanted to help us. She refused. She trumped up garbage charges against me. Made the court question our church as though it were cultic (we were in a mainline Pentecostal denomination). She raked me over the coals... and I was the one who played by the rules. Now... we get along now better than when we were married. So yes, I've forgiven her. But the facts are the facts. The court, because we're a mother state, took her side immediately and forced me to try to prove anything and everything about me. It was brutal. My attorney even suggested that I lie and trump up charges of physical child abuse against her. When I asked if he were suggesting that I lie he said, "Oh no, I'd never do that. However, consider this... she's lying her pants off and you have to ask yourself, 'Do I want to win custody of my child or not?'" My blood ran cold. The system is CORRUPT. That's not anger talking. That's not unforgiveness talking. That's a factual logical minded Christian talking. Sis... it's corrupt. Maybe it's not that bad where you are. But that's what I'm up against. Can you blame me for never wanting to be in that position again???

Soften your heart, ask God to soften your heart. Pray for your ex wife, pray for the judge who issued your divorce. Pray for the lawyers who you blame for making it worse. Pray for your government. Seek his truth in the Bible, not in historical stuff, and be open to those whose view is different than your own. Don't only listen to what your itching ears want to hear. These are Christian forums, and you won't find much in the way of validation of sin.

Pray for people who legally forced extortion upon me and almost took my son away from me??? Sure, I've prayed that God forgive them. But I don't have to be a goofy fool that let's that happen to me again.

I think freakazoid makes an excellent observation. You are likely angry because you know what you are doing is wrong, but do not want to admit it...and anger is a cover for pain. You have been deeply wounded and those wounds have not healed. Imo, if you have a "spiritual marriage" at this point, it will only be rubbing salt in the wounds.

I think you're projecting more pain and anger on to me than I'm actually feeling to avoid the logic of the argument.

 

[Stealth001]

Interesting article:

Christian Marriage Without License and Common Law Marriage: What's the Difference?
By Thomas Drummond
http://ezinearticles.com/?Christian...w-Marriage:-Whats-the-Difference?&id=51340301

 

[Stealth001]

Well, we "married" without a license. Just a nice, peaceful, family gathering at home and a self-officiated declaration of love and devotion before God and family. Signed Bibles and a certificate with signed witnesses. Her mom, a lovely older Baptist woman, was so sweet.

Let's see what happens.

 

[seeingeyes]

Well, we "married" without a license. Just a nice, peaceful, family gathering at home and a self-officiated declaration of love and devotion before God and family. Signed Bibles and a certificate with signed witnesses. Her mom, a lovely older Baptist woman, was so sweet.

Let's see what happens.

Oh, I missed this update.
Good luck and God bless.

 

[LinkH]

In some states, it's easy to be considered married. Quakers get married in a simple way and states acknowledge that.

If you get married that way without a license, technically you could be considered married in some states according to the law. (I'm no lawyer.) So if you are married and don't report it to the government and continue to collect benefits that you can only receive if you are unmarried, then the issue is fraud. I suppose the government could come after you for it if it found out.

 

[Stealth001]

In some states, it's easy to be considered married. Quakers get married in a simple way and states acknowledge that.

If you get married that way without a license, technically you could be considered married in some states according to the law. (I'm no lawyer.) So if you are married and don't report it to the government and continue to collect benefits that you can only receive if you are unmarried, then the issue is fraud. I suppose the government could come after you for it if it found out.

Yes, you are right. However, this could only be the case in states wherein Common Law Marriage is still legally recognized. Quaker marriages are only recongized in states where they fall under common law statute.

 

[cerette]

If you and your girlfriend are living together and enjoying the benefits of marriage, such as sex, then you are living in sin. God is not pleased. Just because you are happy and your life is good it does not mean that God is blessing it in the sense that He accepts your sinful lifestyle. See what He says in Matthew 5:45.

We know from the Bible that there will be no such thing as marriage in heaven (Matthew 22:30), and therefore we know that marriage was instituted by God to be a thing on the earth. What makes a marriage valid? Well that depends on where you live and where you get married. You should follow the laws and rules of the government where you live as long as those laws or rules don't ask you to break God's laws and rules. In most countries, a marriage is valid once it is legally recognized. For this reason, there is no such thing as "spiritual marriage" where two people promise each other to be "married" but there is no legal recognition of that promise. (It would of course be different if the law said that it's a legal marriage if two people say to each other that they're married.)

So, I encourage you to repent from that sinful way you have chosen to follow, seek the counseling and advice of a good pastor and church, and follow God's Word.

 

[Stealth001]

If you and your girlfriend are living together and enjoying the benefits of marriage, such as sex, then you are living in sin. God is not pleased. Just because you are happy and your life is good it does not mean that God is blessing it in the sense that He accepts your sinful lifestyle. See what He says in Matthew 5:45.

We know from the Bible that there will be no such thing as marriage in heaven (Matthew 22:30), and therefore we know that marriage was instituted by God to be a thing on the earth. What makes a marriage valid? Well that depends on where you live and where you get married. You should follow the laws and rules of the government where you live as long as those laws or rules don't ask you to break God's laws and rules. In most countries, a marriage is valid once it is legally recognized. For this reason, there is no such thing as "spiritual marriage" where two people promise each other to be "married" but there is no legal recognition of that promise. (It would of course be different if the law said that it's a legal marriage if two people say to each other that they're married.)

So, I encourage you to repent from that sinful way you have chosen to follow, seek the counseling and advice of a good pastor and church, and follow God's Word.

It isn't illegal to have a government free spiritual marriage. So we've violated no human law.

The institution of civil marriage isn't governed by the Word of God. As believers we would have to go before the courts of the unbelievers should we divorce. We are commanded not to in I Corinthians 6:

"3 Do you not know that we are to judge angels? How much more, then, matters pertaining to this life! 4 So if you have such cases, why do you lay them before those who have no standing in the church? 5 I say this to your shame. Can it be that there is no one among you wise enough to settle a dispute between the brothers, 6 but brother goes to law against brother, and that before unbelievers? 7 To have lawsuits at all with one another is already a defeat for you. Why not rather suffer wrong? Why not rather be defrauded?" ~ Paul, I Corinthians 6:3-7 (ESV)


​

We will not be beholden to unbelieving courts.

Not only that, but the institution of civil marriage is being expanded to homosexuals. We refuse to be associated with that institution.

The Quakers traditionally had self-officiated, government free, marriages. The challenge shouldn't be for us to bow to the dictates of the state concerning the marriage... the challenge is for the state to begin honoring strictly Christian marriage contracts.

Frankly, our marriage is more biblical, historical, and superior to anything the state has to offer.

And yes... many recognize our marriage before God. The STATE isn't God. Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's... and render unto GOD that which is God's. A Christian marriage belongs to the LORD ("...what GOD has joined together...).

If it is "sin"... are countless Quaker couples living in private marriages without state marriage licenses "in sin"???

The Quakers are right on this one. Marriage is a disaster because the STATE has essentially hijacked it... redefined it... and set ungodly standards concerning it. The STATE ruins nearly anything it touches. And if you look at your history... the state only took over marriage in a mad effort to keep whites and blacks from marrying. Prior to that... Common Law Marriage was universally recognized by both the church and state.

We are not owned by the state. We are private citizens. And our marriage is between ourselves... and our God.

Selah.

P.S.

Please note... in the following states... our marriage would be recognized and legally valid:

Alabama
Colorado
Kansas
Rhode Island
South Carolina
Iowa
Montana
Utah
Texas

So according to you... God has different rules for those who do not live in the above listed states. I find that problematic. God is no respector of persons based on their state of residence. And God doesn't bend His will to accomodate corrupt human governments.

 

[Stealth001]

Excellent articles can be found backing the historicity of private marriages.

 

[LinkH]

Yes, you are right. However, this could only be the case in states wherein Common Law Marriage is still legally recognized. Quaker marriages are only recongized in states where they fall under common law statute.

I think it's California law that allows Quakers to marry 'according to their own peculiar customs'. I don't know how that apple is to registration.

Some states still have old fornication laws on the books. Georgia still had a potential 20 year penalty for it back in the late '80s. Some laws just aren't enforced. If your marriage isn't registered, technically, they might be able to charge you with fornication. I don't know. I am not a lawyer, but they just ignore some laws these days.

 

[Mrs. Luther073082]

Thread one, meet thread two: http://www.christianforums.com/t7734367/