Spiritual Knowledge

[AV1611VET]

When it comes to pass. It happens. This conversation is starting to feel overly pedantic and it's barely begun. Just being honest.

Indeed.

Anyone can read a prophecy of God somewhere, then stage its fulfillment.

The trick is reading a prophecy, then keeping it from happening.

I love what Adam Clarke says about this one ...

1 Kings 13:2 And he cried against the altar in the word of the LORD, and said, O altar, altar, thus saith the LORD; Behold, a child shall be born unto the house of David, Josiah by name; and upon thee shall he offer the priests of the high places that burn incense upon thee, and men's bones shall be burnt upon thee.

This is one of the most remarkable and most singular prophecies in the Old Testament. It here most circumstantially foretells a fact which took place three hundred and forty years after the prediction; a fact which was attested by the two nations. The Jews, in whose behalf this prophecy was delivered, would guard it most sacredly; and it was the interest of the Israelites, against whom it was levelled, to impugn its authenticity and expose its falsehood, had this been possible. This prediction not only showed the knowledge of God, but his power. He gave, as it were, this warning to idolatry, that it might be on its guard, and defend itself against this Josiah whenever a person of that name should be found sitting on the throne of David; and no doubt it was on the alert, and took all prudent measures for its own defence; but all in vain, for Josiah, in the eighteenth year of his reign, literally accomplished this prophecy, as we may read, 2Ki 23:15-20.

 

[AV1611VET]

I don't suppose you'd accept that I should've put the word there and just forgot to? I'll gladly make the correction.

I can only promise you that nothing nefarious was meant by it. Total accident.

No problem.

 

[Poor Beggar]

Indeed.

Anyone can read a prophecy of God somewhere, then stage its fulfillment.

The trick is reading a prophecy, then keeping it from happening.

I love what Adam Clarke says about this one ...

1 Kings 13:2 And he cried against the altar in the word of the LORD, and said, O altar, altar, thus saith the LORD; Behold, a child shall be born unto the house of David, Josiah by name; and upon thee shall he offer the priests of the high places that burn incense upon thee, and men's bones shall be burnt upon thee.

Right. The obviousness of this will fail to as sufficient evidence for those married to a non-spiritual worldview. It just won't "get through".
Of course they will have reasons why and those will be rooted in their self-knowledge that they are "rational".

 

[AV1611VET]

What?

Nevermind.

It's a long story.

 

[paulm50]

That's an interesting conclusion.

Here's my take on this and these types of threads.

When asked questions like Do spiritual truths exist? The answers are sweeping and broad. Yet when pushed those truths apply to the believers religion, and then his sect of that religion. Claiming all the others are wrong and the believers evidence is the bible, they then pick verses that will fit their conclusion/

I believe the Israelites created their own religion, all the tribes had their own at the time. They then prophesied a Messiah to save them from the end of days, the enemy, to deliver them wealth or what ever. End of days are the ones we can pin them on. Do any of these give a date that's passed?

Or any of these?

Zechariah 9:13 says the Messiah will be a military leader. There are more about this type of leader. Jeremiah 31:17 was about slaughtering children in Babylon, there are more. And there's the problem in making prophecies. Judge yours and you do others.

 

[Dave-W]

Many religions (at least the classic ones) have some kind of ongoing spiritual war. For some it is entirely in the spirit realm, some are fought out between armies here on earth, and others are some kind of combination.

But as to different religious texts having differing "truths;" if there really is a spiritual war with opposing sides, then what one side gives as truth will not line up with what the other side holds as true. That is just plain sense.

I would take the fact that different groups have different "truths" as evidence that the spiritual war at least has some credibility. It may not get you to which side is for the good; but it does show that all sides are not equal or valid.

 

[gpldisciple]

Jesus gave us The Holy Spirit, it is The Holy Spirit that reveals truth.

Truth by it's very nature is singular. Truth is found in only one person, one place, Christ Jesus. We as humans, and sinners are incapable of being truthful 100% of the time. We as humans with our limited capacity are unable to see the truth 100% of the time. We accept theories as truth (evolution for example), we accept lies as truth, and we seek the truth where it will never be found, from within. He tells us "lean not on your own understanding", yet even Christians fall for all the clever humanistic slogans, and the "brilliant" words spoken by philosophers. Most often if we look at what they say, we can find it was said thousands of years ago, and revealed to us by God's word, the Bible.
I have found it very interesting that even though I have been exposed to The Bible my entire life, I gleaned little from reading it until just a few years ago when I was Baptized in The Holy Spirit. That is what Jesus told us, that The Spirit would reveal the truth to us. It was as if I was trying to read in total darkness and the light came on, passages that once seemed to be confusing nonsense became clear.

 

[Davian]

In spite of the Bible, or with respect to It?

It has been my experience here that there is no position, however contrary to another, that someone cannot find support for in the Bible.

 

[Davian]

You heard correctly.

Science is myopic.
...
For lack of a better term, I call them "Boolean standards:"

1. If the Bible says it, but Science disagrees: go with the Bible.
2. If the Bible doesn't say it, but Science does: go with Science.

But you are not saying science is myopic, you are saying science is wrong. You are contradicting yourself.

2 Peter 1:21b ... but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.Yup.Yup.I would use the Bible to break the tie.

How would that work? It has been my experience here that there is no position, however contrary to another, that someone cannot find support for in the Bible.

 

[rockytopva]

Is spirituality knowledge? Can it be taught?

 

[AV1611VET]

It has been my experience here that there is no position, however contrary to another, that someone cannot find support for in the Bible.

And I'm asking yours.

For It, or against It?

 

[paulm50]

But you are not saying science is myopic, you are saying science is wrong. You are contradicting yourself.

myopic

synonyms: short-sighted;
lacking foresight or intellectual insight.
"the government still has a myopic attitude to public spending"​

Clearly science is not this. They often set goals far in the distance, then take steps to prove or disprove them heading towards a goal.

As for being wrong, says someone using a laptop, programmed, powered by electricity on the Internet. Neitheth myopic or wrong.

 

[juvenissun]

Does Ana mean religious doctrines? The problem will always be. One man's spiritual truth, is another man's lie. As no one can define it in real terms, the result is often war or executions.

Actually they can define love/hate in terms of science. It's done via brain scans. I'm sure there are many other ways, facial, scent, mannerisms, etc.

No. They can not.
It is science. So make sure you accept that.

 

[rockytopva]

The spiritual light and energies exist on a spiritual level.

 

[Davian]

And I'm asking yours.

For It, or against It?

For or against what?

 

[Davian]

myopic

synonyms: short-sighted;
lacking foresight or intellectual insight.
"the government still has a myopic attitude to public spending"​

Clearly science is not this. They often set goals far in the distance, then take steps to prove or disprove them heading towards a goal.

As for being wrong, says someone using a laptop, programmed, powered by electricity on the Internet. Neitheth myopic or wrong.

I have observed that those declaring science to be wrong will happily make allowances for satellite TV and healthcare.

 

[AV1611VET]

I have observed that those declaring science to be wrong will happily make allowances for satellite TV and healthcare.

How about Phlogiston, Thalidomide, and Pluto?

 

[Davian]

How about Phlogiston, Thalidomide, and Pluto?

How about them? Did any of those leave a big enough hole in scientific knowledge allow for the existence of gods?

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

You heard correctly.

Science is myopic.

Until they can build a machine that can do this ...

2 Kings 6:17 And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.

... they can admit their myopia.Yes, indeed.

Imparted by the Holy Spirit, Himself.

Having just read 'Hallucinations' by Oliver Sacks, this description is strikingly similar to some of the hallucinations he describes, such as those of people with visual impairments (Charles Bonnet Syndrome), or the sometimes ecstatic hallucinations of some epilepsy (particularly temporal lobe epilepsy), known as the 'Sacred' Disease.

Just sayin'

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

... This conversation is starting to feel overly pedantic and it's barely begun. Just being honest.

Philosophy can be like that. If you think this is pedantic, just wait until you try analytic philosophy.