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Spiritual Core

Split Rock

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I see. Well so do we. You claimed stuff about pre 4500 tree rings, for example. You never verified it. :) By the way, your dendrochronologist friend, what happened!? He dropped the ball? -- Others brought up old old old roots, as dated, yet failed to verify it.

But, as you say faith requires no verification. Very well,-------- just don't pretend it is science. Paaaleeeese.

You can go read the scientific literature, text books, or if you are really lazy, Wikipedia. All the verification is there, if you are really interested in it. That is the difference.
 
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Split Rock

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I don't --- but apparently there are scientists in the IAU who do.
Are you one of them?

Another thing I don't get about this Pluto thing, is that the Pluto vote was accepted automatically, with 100% agreement --- no initial skepticism involved --- just automatic.

However, when it comes to the books of the Bible, which supposedly was settled by vote --- you guys want to argue it.
What are we arguing about? Whether they are in the Bible, or belong in the Bible? No. We question whether you guys are correct in your interpretation of those books. We question whether or not they represent the inerrant Word of God. Some might question why other books were not accepted, bit I haven't seen anyone here question the right of the early church to make such choices. We also ask, what do those choices mean in terms of your interpretation of the chosen books as "the inerrant Word of God?" None of this is comparable to the IAU changing a scientific definition.
 
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Split Rock

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We just go from having 9 planets in our solar system to having 8, and no one has a right to be skeptical?
Its not like Pluto disappeared. It was simply reclassified.


I'm talking about lists like:

  1. Contradictions in the Resurrection Story
  2. Pi
  3. geocentrism and flat earth
  4. those sorts of things
You go to explain them, and because it's on a PRATT list somewhere, you may as well talk to the wall.

There are contradictions in the resurrection story of the different Gospels. They were written by different people utilizing different sources. Not surprising that there are a few minor differences. It only becomes a problem when you claim The Bible is the ultimate and inerrant authority. But that is a problem only for you guys.

The whole Pi argument is something of a red herring. It seems highly unlikely the Hebrews didn't know pi. However, if you are going to argue that the Bible is inerrant, word for word... then once again, this suddenly becomes an issue.

Geocentrism is most certainly supported by scripture. The Church certainly interpreted it that way. Of course, no one at the time the Bible was written knew better. Once again, it only becomes an issue if you argue that The Bible is "God breathed."

Flat earth? One can find scripture to support such an interpretation, but it is thin at best. It is really not hard to show the earth is curved, rather than flat. Also, the church did not have a "Flat Earth Theology," as far as I know. So, yeah, I would call that a PRATT.
 
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dad

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You can go read the scientific literature, text books, or if you are really lazy, Wikipedia. All the verification is there, if you are really interested in it. That is the difference.

Does that mean you are backing away from your claims about pre 4500 layer tree rings!!? Surprise. Guess that dendrochronology friend came up empty for you. Just be honest. Why point to literature of some vague sort? Let's see those rings, even if you crop a photo from your lit. Or admit defeat.

It used to be creationists were accused of hit and run on internet forums. All I see is evos engaging in hit and run these days. How times have changed. You might want to pause for though and consideration before making claims next time.

And how about the poster that offered up root systems as the proof of great age!?? Forget to back it up? I have seen this over and over, for example when discussing black holes, and redshift, and etc. When I get them up against the wall, and put the heat on, they vanish like a doubt under a spotlight. Funny that.
 
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Split Rock

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Does that mean you are backing away from your claims about pre 4500 layer tree rings!!? Surprise. Guess that dendrochronology friend came up empty for you. Just be honest. Why point to literature of some vague sort? Let's see those rings, even if you crop a photo from your lit. Or admit defeat.

It used to be creationists were accused of hit and run on internet forums. All I see is evos engaging in hit and run these days. How times have changed. You might want to pause for though and consideration before making claims next time.

And how about the poster that offered up root systems as the proof of great age!?? Forget to back it up? I have seen this over and over, for example when discussing black holes, and redshift, and etc. When I get them up against the wall, and put the heat on, they vanish like a doubt under a spotlight. Funny that.

What are you talking about? I didn't mention 4500 layer tree rings, or root systems. You are really confused now.

You have been shown plenty of physical evidence here... you just dismiss it. People are propably tired of your ad hoc explanations.. and you say we cannot tell anything about the past anyway from the physical evidence, so why bother. Unless you make up something from a few lines of scripture... then it is "God's Word," and needs no evidence to be true. Why should anyone bother showing you this stuff anymore? Go look it up yourself. Go to the library and read a book.
 
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dad

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What are you talking about? I didn't mention 4500 layer tree rings, or root systems. You are really confused now.

Apologies, I looked it up, it was Bannaslug. (http://www.christianforums.com/t7390200-20/#post52612512)

So, although you personally may not have brought up the tree root thing, or made claims about the pre 4500 level tree rings, they were made, as the other things I mentioned.

You have been shown plenty of physical evidence here... you just dismiss it.
Sounds nice, but no truth at all to it. No proof of the state of the universe in the future or far past was ever given, as a matter of fact.

People are propably tired of your ad hoc explanations..

The bible and history past accounts are anything but ad hoc. People of a religious nature always tire of anyone with different beliefs. I care not how tired anyone is, only what facts they present to us all, plainly, and cohesively.

..and you say we cannot tell anything about the past anyway from the physical evidence, so why bother.
Context. I accept the evidence of the axis change of the earth over time. The temples of the ancients that measured it. And the Dodwell curve, that results from the 66 data points that point to a year specifially right after the flood! (regardless of whether you may want to argue same state decay so called dating on a few of the sites, the overall picture remains the same!)

I also accept the fossil record, and etc etc etc. So, while science can't tell us anything that matters, about the uniiverse as it was, history and the bible do a fine job!

The evidences of science merely confirm it. They can't stand alone. That is why I am picking on them.

Unless you make up something from a few lines of scripture... then it is "God's Word," and needs no evidence to be true. Why should anyone bother showing you this stuff anymore? Go look it up yourself. Go to the library and read a book.

There is no book that deals in the pre flood. This is news? Not a science book. Not a history book. Those that claim stuff called science, had better show us stuff to support it. Or we all will know what stuff it really is. And it ain't pretty.
 
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Split Rock

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Sounds nice, but no truth at all to it. No proof of the state of the universe in the future or far past was ever given, as a matter of fact.
No truth? You have been shown plenty of physical evidence. You have just confirmed what I wrote earlier. You just dismiss it.


The bible and history past accounts are anything but ad hoc. People of a religious nature always tire of anyone with different beliefs. I care not how tired anyone is, only what facts they present to us all, plainly, and cohesively.
Your ideas that you just make up based on your interpretation of scripture are ad hoc.

Context. I accept the evidence of the axis change of the earth over time. The temples of the ancients that measured it. And the Dodwell curve, that results from the 66 data points that point to a year specifially right after the flood! (regardless of whether you may want to argue same state decay so called dating on a few of the sites, the overall picture remains the same!)
You make up the context and then tell us about it. Nice.

I also accept the fossil record, and etc etc etc. So, while science can't tell us anything that matters, about the uniiverse as it was, history and the bible do a fine job!
If science cannot tell us about anything that matters, why do you keep asking us to provide it to you?? This is my point.

The evidences of science merely confirm it. They can't stand alone. That is why I am picking on them.
You are probably bored, llike AVET. Or you consider yourself God's prophet and need to tell everyone else your made up stories for self fulfillment.

There is no book that deals in the pre flood. This is news? Not a science book. Not a history book. Those that claim stuff called science, had better show us stuff to support it. Or we all will know what stuff it really is. And it ain't pretty.
Sure, show you "stuff to support it" that isn't in text books, or the scientitifc literature either, right? 'Cause you will just dismiss it all if we do. In other words, you won't accept anything we show you. I will ask you one more time. Why Should We Bother? The game is up. No one wants to play with you anymore. What will you do to show you are God's Special Prophet now?:wave:
 
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dad

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No truth? You have been shown plenty of physical evidence. You have just confirmed what I wrote earlier. You just dismiss it.
Speaking of truth, let's try some here. I dismiss nothing in the way of physical evidence, despite science dismissing the more important part of the equation, the spiritual.

I accept radioactive decay, distant stars, present light, and it's properties, tree rings (especially the kind that actually exist), present plant growth and evolution rates, and life spans, and ways DNA act, and etc.

Don't pretend otherwise.





Your ideas that you just make up based on your interpretation of scripture are ad hoc.
False. I both accept the scriptures, and look at what we actually know in science, rather than dismiss the scriptures, and look at what we do not know, as so called science does. We do know there is decay, and certain laws and forces that govern how nuclear reactions must now occur, for example. By the same token I do not accept that the new heavesn of the bible, coming when these ones pass away, are bound to the same rules. That is elementary. If they were the same, they woulldn't need to pass away!! Neither could I allow so called science to wave away that new universe coming, or how it will work, simply because of narrow minded religious dogma, believing that what we see is what we will also get always. That is absurd, and baseless, and in no way science.


You make up the context and then tell us about it. Nice.
Pointing out the obvious, that is supported solidly by scripture, and all evidences is not making up context.


If science cannot tell us about anything that matters, why do you keep asking us to provide it to you?? This is my point.
Because it has been taught as if it did matter in the bible and creation history. If a man comes to my door selling tickets to a cheap cruise, I have a right to determine if the vacation package is real, or just a scam, based on nothing, but an attempt to collect money. Science has been peddling an alternate creation story, and presenting it for sale, but it is a scam.


You are probably bored, llike AVET. Or you consider yourself God's prophet and need to tell everyone else your made up stories for self fulfillment.

Presumpteous nonsense.


Sure, show you "stuff to support it" that isn't in text books, or the scientitifc literature either, right?

No. Using the present as the key to the past is in the books, as are all the insane conclusions built up on the premise. Alll you need to do is defend what is preached.

'Cause you will just dismiss it all if we do.

Hard to say, since it has never been done yet.

In other words, you won't accept anything we show you. I will ask you one more time. Why Should We Bother? The game is up. No one wants to play with you anymore. What will you do to show you are God's Special Prophet now?:wave:

Being a graceful loser is a good thing for busted so called science devotees, I would think. It is in no way a question of bothering, it is a matter of it can't be done. It hasn't been done. So I would respect more an honest attitude, and not strange mud slinging.

I don't care if the ones with a defeated case bother to say anything. All that needs be done is roast their case on a different state past spit. And wash the sories in lack of proof soap, and hang them out to dry.

That way lurkers who are honest will look into it. Maybe ask honest questions, some of them.

In other words, since the so called science defenders have come up empty, they deserve to be talked at over their heads, and directly to others.
 
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Split Rock

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Speaking of truth, let's try some here. I dismiss nothing in the way of physical evidence, despite science dismissing the more important part of the equation, the spiritual.
You dismiss only the science that condradicts your religious dogma.

I accept radioactive decay, distant stars, present light, and it's properties, tree rings (especially the kind that actually exist), present plant growth and evolution rates, and life spans, and ways DNA act, and etc.

Don't pretend otherwise.
You have said repeatedly in this very thread that none of that science matters. So what if you say you "accept" it?

False. I both accept the scriptures, and look at what we actually know in science, rather than dismiss the scriptures, and look at what we do not know, as so called science does. We do know there is decay, and certain laws and forces that govern how nuclear reactions must now occur, for example. By the same token I do not accept that the new heavesn of the bible, coming when these ones pass away, are bound to the same rules. That is elementary. If they were the same, they woulldn't need to pass away!! Neither could I allow so called science to wave away that new universe coming, or how it will work, simply because of narrow minded religious dogma, believing that what we see is what we will also get always. That is absurd, and baseless, and in no way science.
You wouldn't know science if you tripped over it. Your science is indeed "narrow minded religious dogma." Ours isn't. Why? Because Ours Actually Works.


Pointing out the obvious, that is supported solidly by scripture, and all evidences is not making up context.
LOL! "Solid Scripture!!" Please show us the lines from scripture that descibe how seismic waves bend differently through the "spiritual" core of the earth compared to a core if it was made of iron.

Because it has been taught as if it did matter in the bible and creation history. If a man comes to my door selling tickets to a cheap cruise, I have a right to determine if the vacation package is real, or just a scam, based on nothing, but an attempt to collect money. Science has been peddling an alternate creation story, and presenting it for sale, but it is a scam.
Yes, all a scam. Dad is God's prophet and He knows best. Still no one here you have convinced? Why is that?


Presumpteous nonsense.
What?... you're "non-PO only Past State? I agree.


No. Using the present as the key to the past is in the books, as are all the insane conclusions built up on the premise. Alll you need to do is defend what is preached.
That is just what you do here. An excellent summary of your position! :clap:

Hard to say, since it has never been done yet.
Just every day.

Being a graceful loser is a good thing for busted so called science devotees, I would think. It is in no way a question of bothering, it is a matter of it can't be done. It hasn't been done. So I would respect more an honest attitude, and not strange mud slinging.
Yes I know you concluded a long time again that it can't be done and will not accept anything else. Why then do you keep asking us to do it, then???

I don't care if the ones with a defeated case bother to say anything. All that needs be done is roast their case on a different state past spit. And wash the sories in lack of proof soap, and hang them out to dry.
HA, HA, HA! Sure, go ahead and declare victory! You have defeated all us "science devotees," just as AVET "eats atheists for breakfast" and "pwns" us here all the time. Sure... just as a brick wall would declare "victory" if it could after someone stops beating their head against it. Its rather strange that you guys have convinced absolutely no one in this forum that you are right. Can you explain how that works? You and AVET score victory on top of victory, and convince nobody, not even a single lurker? Tell us how that happens.

That way lurkers who are honest will look into it. Maybe ask honest questions, some of them.
The only thing that the lurkers here will respond to your rantings is with one question. Is dad nuts, or just a troll?

In other words, since the so called science defenders have come up empty, they deserve to be talked at over their heads, and directly to others.
We are the ones talking over your head, dad... but that's OK. You are God's infallible Prophet. You have special insight into God. You know The Truth. But we're not playing with you anymore, dad. :wave:

/thread
 
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dad

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You dismiss only the science that condradicts your religious dogma.

There is no science that contradicts my beliefs, that is the point. Only fables, so called science falsely. I dismiss nothing that is real, and applies.


You have said repeatedly in this very thread that none of that science matters. So what if you say you "accept" it?


You wouldn't know science if you tripped over it. Your science is indeed "narrow minded religious dogma." Ours isn't. Why? Because Ours Actually Works.
Now, now. No science works in any way that is based on the big bang singularity, or magically appearing life forms. ALL science that works is from the here and now, of the here and now, by the here and now, and for the here and now. No one can ride it's coattails, and try to include tha fables of creation.



LOL! "Solid Scripture!!" Please show us the lines from scripture that descibe how seismic waves bend differently through the "spiritual" core of the earth compared to a core if it was made of iron.
The scripture says the foundations of the earth are eternal. Bend a wave around that one. And even if you do bend a wave through the core, you are flying blind. You have no idea why it bends a bit this way or that! All science has done is compare surface stuff, and how waves bend here, and assume any simiilar bend has to be because of the same stuff down there. Let me know if I need to break that down a bit for you. It happens to be true.


Yes, all a scam. Dad is God's prophet and He knows best. Still no one here you have convinced? Why is that?
Rather than insane ans silly patronizing, I would suggest content, substance, logic, and facts.



Yes I know you concluded a long time again that it can't be done and will not accept anything else. Why then do you keep asking us to do it, then???
I never sat around dreaming, and concluded that science built on present state premises could not be proven applicable to the past. The glaringly obvious fact came after watching many scientists, and learned men fall flat as a floundr, trying to support the mother of all assumptions, of a same state past. It was arfter observing, and countless repeating the experiment, that I was forced to arrive at the conclusion that so called science is founded on a lie, and cannot be supported.


HA, HA, HA! Sure, go ahead and declare victory! You have defeated all us "science devotees," just as AVET "eats atheists for breakfast" and "pwns" us here all the time. Sure... just as a brick wall would declare "victory" if it could after someone stops beating their head against it. Its rather strange that you guys have convinced absolutely no one in this forum that you are right. Can you explain how that works? You and AVET score victory on top of victory, and convince nobody, not even a single lurker? Tell us how that happens.
I need not convince anyone here, if their mind is made up. All I need to do is be right. And be right in a way that I can deal with any and all actual and honest attempts to prove the required same state past or future. So far, it is a piece of cake. And your lack of substance doesn't hurt my case, either. Some will realize that if you had anything we all would have seen it by now.


The only thing that the lurkers here will respond to your rantings is with one question. Is dad nuts, or just a troll?
No. Some will look at what is actually being said, and what facts they actually see in history, bible, and science. Not all are as shallow as you think.


The spiritual core of the earth makes sense. The waves do not affect that one bit, let alone wave it away. Real men of science, and wisdom, and knowledge admit how little they know. Work on that.
 
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dad

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Just to keep you posted, here is the latest from down under, showing they had it wrong. No less than lots of water way down there. What a scream.


"
"Many earth scientists thought that tectonic plates are not likely to carry much, if any, water deep into the Earth's mantle," said Adam Schultz, a geologist at OSU and a co-author of the Nature paper. "Our model, however, clearly shows a close association between subduction zones and high conductivity. The simplest explanation is water."
The study provides new insights into the fundamental ways in which our planet works, Schultz says. Despite advances in technology, scientists are still unsure how much water lies beneath the ocean floor--and how much of it makes its way into the mantle.
The implications are myriad. Water interacts with minerals differently at different depths, and small amounts of water may change the physical properties of rocks, alter the viscosity of materials in the mantle, assist in the formation of rising plumes of melted rock, and ultimately affect what flows out on the surface.
"In fact, we don't really know how much water there is on Earth," said Gary Egbert, an oceanographer at OSU and co-author of the paper. "There is some evidence that there is many times more water below the ocean floor than there is in all the oceans of the world combined."

Scientists Create First Three-dimensional Global Map Of Electrical Conductivity In Earth's Mantle

The fountains of the deep gain credence, and once again, a new look at what we know is required.
 
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LifeToTheFullest!

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Just to keep you posted, here is the latest from down under, showing they had it wrong. No less than lots of water way down there. What a scream.


"
"Many earth scientists thought that tectonic plates are not likely to carry much, if any, water deep into the Earth's mantle," said Adam Schultz, a geologist at OSU and a co-author of the Nature paper. "Our model, however, clearly shows a close association between subduction zones and high conductivity. The simplest explanation is water."
The study provides new insights into the fundamental ways in which our planet works, Schultz says. Despite advances in technology, scientists are still unsure how much water lies beneath the ocean floor--and how much of it makes its way into the mantle.
The implications are myriad. Water interacts with minerals differently at different depths, and small amounts of water may change the physical properties of rocks, alter the viscosity of materials in the mantle, assist in the formation of rising plumes of melted rock, and ultimately affect what flows out on the surface.
"In fact, we don't really know how much water there is on Earth," said Gary Egbert, an oceanographer at OSU and co-author of the paper. "There is some evidence that there is many times more water below the ocean floor than there is in all the oceans of the world combined."

Scientists Create First Three-dimensional Global Map Of Electrical Conductivity In Earth's Mantle

The fountains of the deep gain credence, and once again, a new look at what we know is required.
You do understand that this is theoretical, and that they actually haven't found the H20 yet. Right?

Of course you do, as your understanding and subsequent interpretation of data proves to be razor sharp. :thumbsup:
 
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dad

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You do understand that this is theoretical, and that they actually haven't found the H20 yet. Right?

Of course you do, as your understanding and subsequent interpretation of data proves to be razor sharp. :thumbsup:
Oh, I realize that all right. In fact, I am looking at how deep they are talking about, and wondering if we are getting into the spiritual level. Naturally, that would not behave as their PO scenarios expect!

But, even if there is left over water from the fountains of the deep, that is great too! How some so called brainy types of the atheist bend sneered at the thought there could be water down there. Now, they don't laugh so loud. Now they don't sing so peoud. About havin to be scroungin, their next ad hoc PO explanation!

The evos are on the defensive.
 
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Freodin

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Science is always wrong, fantasy, physical only, in the box... whatever... when it disagrees with creationist.

And it is always 100% correct, infallible... even when it is highly hypothetical... if only it agrees with their view.

Really funny!
 
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LifeToTheFullest!

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Yep. He was quick to dismiss an actaully living tree with 8000 yo roots, but quick to jump on a hypothetical 'fountains of the deep' in a New York minute. lol

Masters of confirmation bias, creationists are.

I hope their model does indeed turn out to be verified. Our planet is facing a severe water shortage, and newly discovered water is encouraging.
 
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dad

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Yep. He was quick to dismiss an actaully living tree with 8000 yo roots, but quick to jump on a hypothetical 'fountains of the deep' in a New York minute. lol

Masters of confirmation bias, creationists are.

I hope their model does indeed turn out to be verified. Our planet is facing a severe water shortage, and newly discovered water is encouraging.
Ha. Getting down there has never been done. Not by the living. Except Jesus. The fountains of the deep are not theory, they are bible. Or rather were, before the flood. Many have speculated that there was lots of water left still down there.

I personally have not jumped on it. As I stated, I am not sure if what they think is water causing the reaction may not actually be spiritual material. Just as the waves bouncing off it down there can't be read right from up here, unless we knew that what they bounced off of, was PO material, as up here on the surface. We don't know.

Either way, the bible is looking good about now.
 
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LifeToTheFullest!

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Ha. Getting down there has never been done. Not by the living. Except Jesus. The fountains of the deep are not theory, they are bible. Or rather were, before the flood. Many have speculated that there was lots of water left still down there.

I personally have not jumped on it. As I stated, I am not sure if what they think is water causing the reaction may not actually be spiritual material. Just as the waves bouncing off it down there can't be read right from up here, unless we knew that what they bounced off of, was PO material, as up here on the surface. We don't know.

Either way, the bible is looking good about now.
Okey dokey dad.
 
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dad

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Okey dokey dad.
OK. Thanks. To recap, then, they say there must be water down there. Something doesn't fit with their model, so they need to invoke water. Not because they found evidence of it, but because that is all that would fit that they can think of. (that is sufrace based)



One day the door to below will be opened. Untold hordes will come up from down there. Some call the opening the great shaft. Strange things are afoot.
 
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LifeToTheFullest!

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OK. Thanks. To recap, then, they say there must be water down there. Something doesn't fit with their model, so they need to invoke water. Not because they found evidence of it, but because that is all that would fit that they can think of. (that is sufrace based)



One day the door to below will be opened. Untold hordes will come up from down there. Some call the opening the great shaft. Strange things are afoot.
You should call Coast To Coast AM and let George Noori in on this.
 
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dad

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You should call Coast To Coast AM and let George Noori in on this.

Isn't he a Christian? I think one of them is, that took over that show. If he is, he may be aware of the bottomless pit.

The new claim of water down there, however is...well, new. Notice how they reach the conclusion. 'Something is causing the effect, the simplest answer is water'

In other words..they don't really know.
 
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