Species or Varieties

[Loudmouth]

No! It CAN BE inferred, but we do not have to assume such a relationship.

We are not forced to follow the evidence. You can ignore the evidence if you want. Is that what you are saying?

 

[wndwalkr99]

Horses and donkeys mate with each other, but the offspring (mules) are always infertile. By your definition, are they the same species? Could it be that Neanderthals and other hominids were as distinct from each other as horses are from donkeys?

That is not strictly true, but close.

http://www.denverpost.com/2007/07/25/mules-foal-fools-genetics-with-impossible-birth/

 

[doubtingmerle]

That is not strictly true, but close.

http://www.denverpost.com/2007/07/25/mules-foal-fools-genetics-with-impossible-birth/

Ah, so if a full mule foal fools around it can make another foal. Interesting.

 

[wndwalkr99]

Ah, so if a full mule foal fools around it can make another foal. Interesting.

Rarely, but it's not impossible.

Mules probably have some reduced fertility more often than we expect. In order for a female mule (a "molly") to reproduce, she would have had to be bred by an intact stallion or jack. It's not all that common for either of those to be commonly housed with mollies, but clearly it has happened more than once. Conversely, I don't think there are any instances in which a male mule ("john") has been shown to be fertile (though of course...it's not as obvious who the sire of a foal is, if more than one intact male has access to fertile females). While john mules are thought to be infertile, they still produce testosterone and exhibit stud-like behavior unless they are gelded, so it's extraordinarily rare that a john mule is intact - there would be no reason for it. So the chances of a john mule being left intact and then been able to successfully breed either a mare or a jenny are slim, even if they did have some fertility as at least a few mollies clearly do.

 

[pshun2404]

While the Belgian Cave Neanderthal demonstrates community existence around 100,000 years ago, and the Altamura skeleton from around 170,000 years ago, the oldest known human DNA found revealed genetic material from the bones which are a combination Neanderthal /Denisovans living in what is now the Sima de los Huesos in Northern Spain. It is generally accepted that we can undeniably say we have found a 400,000 year old HUMAN thigh bone (Middle Pleistocene).


Matthias Meyer, a molecular biologist at the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology in Leipzig, Germany, tells us that in this cave we have found the bones of no less than 28 individuals dating anywhere from 125,000 to 780,000 years ago. However, according to Meyer and his team, upon closer look, the Mitochondrial DNA studies reveals a shared more common female ancestor with Denisovans with the more Neanderthal lineage not splitting from them until about 700,000 years ago.


Therefore Homo sapien Altai (Denisovan) and Homo sapien Neandertalis demonstrate their interactive social and sexual presence in Europe over a half million years ago which is many millennia before the alleged Sapien-sapiens even emerged in Africa.


Neanderthals were people who according to the Smithsonian Natural History Museum “made and used a diverse set of sophisticated tools, controlled fire, lived in shelters, made and wore clothing, were skilled hunters of large animals and also ate plant foods, and occasionally made symbolic or ornamental objects. There is evidence that Neanderthals deliberately buried their dead and occasionally even marked their graves with offerings, such as flowers. They go on to tell us that “No other primates… practiced this sophisticated and symbolic behavior.” In fact no other does all the way up to this time!


I am waiting with excitement as to how “scientists” will come up with a (fabricated or allegedly inferred) “narrative” that can explain how two distinct mitochondrial DNA lineages sprung out from one group (an alleged common ancestor), one leading more specifically to Denisovans, the other leading more specifically to Neanderthals. Merely claiming that it did or must have (even by consensus) is not adequate “science”!


Apparently, these “scientists” suggest this may indicate a currently unknown human lineage (which would have to be even older) brought Denisovan-like mitochondrial DNA into the this region, and possibly also somehow spread to the Denisovans we now know of found in Asia.


A Homo sapien lineage older than 700,000 years? Wow! Now that, if found, would clearly upset the proverbial 195,000 year emergence hypothesis based theory apple cart. Meyer said "The story of human evolution is not as simple as we would have liked to think. This result is a big question mark. In some sense, we know less about the origins of Neanderthals and Denisovans than we knew before."

 

[David4223]

MOD HAT ON

This thread is being moved from the Physical and Life Sciences forum to the Creation and Evolution forum as it more closely fits with that forum.

MOD HAT OFF​

 

[AdamSK]

You are confused as to how one group can become two groups in hundreds of thousands of years?