special relativity prove the truthfulness of Quran !! how

[elwill]

one of the verses are talking about angels

32-5 (Allah) Rules the cosmic affair from the heavens to the Earth. Then this affair travels to Him a distance in one day, at a measure of one thousand years of what you count.

the verse is talking about the angels whom carry out these orders from heavens to the earth .
in the time of mohammed (pbuh) people measured the distances neither in kilometers nor in miles but rather by how much time they needed to walk.

For example, a village two days away meant a distance equivalent to walking for two days; ten days away meant a distance equivalent to walking for ten days... However in this verse the Quran specifies 1000 years of what they counted (not what they walked). Those people back then followed the lunar calendar and counted 12 lunar months each year. These months are related to the moon and not related to the sun. Hence in 1 day the angels will travel a distance of 1000 years of what they counted (the moon). Since this verse is referring to distance, then God is saying that angels travel in one day the same distance that the moon travels in 12000 lunar orbits.

Outside gravitational fields this speed turned out to be the known speed of light , which means that the speed of the angles equal the speed of the light
(mslems believe that angels are low density creatures, and that God created them originally from light )


yet , i didn't proof anything , be patient

there is another verse in the quran informes us different informations about traveling of angles from earth to heaven which say

70-4 The angels and the Spirit ascend to Him in a day, the measure of which is fifty thousand years.

Here angels will experience 1 day while humans will measure it as 50,000 years (time vs. time and not time vs. distance as the previous lunar verse)


However, according to the theory of special relativity, given this time difference (time dilation), we can calculate the speed at which that object traveled.

We can verify if those angels really accelerate up to the speed of light, as claimed by Moslems, on the first verse

Where ∆to is the time measured for a mover by a mover;
∆t is the time measured for a mover by a stationary frame; v is the velocity of the mover relative to the stationary observer)
∆to is the time experienced by angels (1 day).
∆t is the time as measured by humans (50,000 lunar years x12 lunar months/lunar year x 27.321661 days/lunar month).
v is the velocity of angels in this case (which we intend to calculate and then compare to the known speed of light).
c is the known speed of light 2997924.48 km/s, the speed of light in vacuum


From the above equation we can solve for the unknown velocity:

So let’s insert the Moslem claims and see if their angels really accelerate up to the speed of light or not. Insert dates from this verse The angels and the Spirit ascend to Him in a day, the measure of which is fifty thousand years into the formula

v = 299792.4579999994 km / s ( and this is the speed of light )

 

[maybenotcrazy]

Science is the last thing I'd use to verify a book of worship.

 

[maybenotcrazy]

More than that. I'd say that Satan, being made of smokeless fire in the koran isn't going to be burned in hell because he's fire already? Can you tell me also why God would punish people for sin on earth but jahan firdos is a virtual orgy and drinking binge? Sorry i'm sounding so mean. I'm glad I met a muslim who is willing to explain his faith to the public as candidly as you are. The most striking thing I have to say about islam is that it gets its credibility from the bible (I.E. it claims all those things are true) but says exactly the opposite. Practically every teaching of christ is negated, practically all the prophets of israel are ignored. Did you know that idris though called enoch by muslims actually is more closely related to the word esdras or ezra? Perhaps mohammed didn't know. And much of what is in the koran can be found in the apocryphal texts of the bible, the ones we threw out? I am not trying to be mean. You are on a christian forum you should know that when you post a pro-islam post you're going to get a pro-christian post. (all this is just to prepare the solution to any conflict that WILL arise). The most glaring contradiction of all is the fact that ishmael is the one who abraham attempted to sacrifice. Surely then the whole point of the hebrew bible was to prove that the descendents of isaac are god's chosen people, not the ishmaelites. The koran is a power grab and a statement of jealousy of the divine covenant with israel. Nothing more nothing less.


Also, your equation is right on the money. It says that relativity wasn't satisfied. The fraction could have been .5/50000 and still have been closer. By the way. If it were proof, allah would not have allowed for inexactitude. He would have made the time infinite because, when you are traveling at the speed of light, time stops!!! Bet you didn't know that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Obviously allah doesn't even truly know relativity.

 

[elwill]

More than that. I'd say that Satan, being made of smokeless fire in the koran isn't going to be burned in hell because he's fire already? Can you tell me also why God would punish people for sin on earth but jahan firdos is a virtual orgy and drinking binge? Sorry i'm sounding so mean. I'm glad I met a muslim who is willing to explain his faith to the public as candidly as you are. The most striking thing I have to say about islam is that it gets its credibility from the bible (I.E. it claims all those things are true) but says exactly the opposite. Practically every teaching of christ is negated, practically all the prophets of israel are ignored. Did you know that idris though called enoch by muslims actually is more closely related to the word esdras or ezra? Perhaps mohammed didn't know. And much of what is in the koran can be found in the apocryphal texts of the bible, the ones we threw out? I am not trying to be mean. You are on a christian forum you should know that when you post a pro-islam post you're going to get a pro-christian post. (all this is just to prepare the solution to any conflict that WILL arise). The most glaring contradiction of all is the fact that ishmael is the one who abraham attempted to sacrifice. Surely then the whole point of the hebrew bible was to prove that the descendents of isaac are god's chosen people, not the ishmaelites. The koran is a power grab and a statement of jealousy of the divine covenant with israel. Nothing more nothing less.


Also, your equation is right on the money. It says that relativity wasn't satisfied. The fraction could have been .5/50000 and still have been closer. By the way. If it were proof, allah would not have allowed for inexactitude. He would have made the time infinite because, when you are traveling at the speed of light, time stops!!! Bet you didn't know that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Obviously allah doesn't even truly know relativity.

thnk you for your openion
but anyway , i expected scientific refutation rather than insulting my faith .

may be i posted it in wrong department

sorry for disturbing anyway

peace

 

[maybenotcrazy]

thnk you for your openion
but anyway , i expected scientific refutation rather than insulting my faith .

may be i posted it in wrong department

sorry for disturbing anyway

peace

I wrote at the bottom a scientific refutation. Please understand that if the angels were traveling at the speed of light it would not be 1 day but no time at all they experience. Therefore the equation would have deltat0 = 0 and well any amount of time on the bottom would not matter for t. Therefore you would have the speed of light accurately given for the right reason. I think this is a very deceptive argument that no one should give any credence to. Your religion has a lot of things about it that are deceptive as well and I think I posted them appropriately above. I don't hate muslims but islam is hardly provable and in fact stands on shakier ground than any other religion because it contradicts the very book that it takes its credibility from. I hear that the koran doesnt have any contradictions in it, or few. This is because it keeps repeating the same message as well as telling stories that have no relation to each other that can't possibly coincide negatively. The koran is like a tautology. Keep saying allah will burn you or send you to heaven and occasionally tell a story and you find you get no contradictions. Again. This is a christian forum and since you are trying to deceptively take christians away from their faith I thought I'd give a few reasons why the koran is not so logical or scientific- not insults but facts.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

one of the verses are talking about angels

32-5 (Allah) Rules the cosmic affair from the heavens to the Earth. Then this affair travels to Him a distance in one day, at a measure of one thousand years of what you count.

the verse is talking about the angels whom carry out these orders from heavens to the earth .
in the time of mohammed (pbuh) people measured the distances neither in kilometers nor in miles but rather by how much time they needed to walk.

For example, a village two days away meant a distance equivalent to walking for two days; ten days away meant a distance equivalent to walking for ten days... However in this verse the Quran specifies 1000 years of what they counted (not what they walked). Those people back then followed the lunar calendar and counted 12 lunar months each year. These months are related to the moon and not related to the sun. Hence in 1 day the angels will travel a distance of 1000 years of what they counted (the moon). Since this verse is referring to distance, then God is saying that angels travel in one day the same distance that the moon travels in 12000 lunar orbits.

Outside gravitational fields this speed turned out to be the known speed of light , which means that the speed of the angles equal the speed of the light

No, it doesn't.

The Moon travels in a roughly circular orbit, the mean radius of which is r = 3.844 x 10[sup]8[/sup] m. This corresponds to a circumference of 2πr = 2.415 x 10[sup]9[/sup] m. Thus, 12000 orbits covers a distance of 2.898 x 10[sup]13[/sup] m.

Now, one day is 86400 seconds (this is the exact modern definition; the definitions used in 7[sup]th[/sup] century would be very close to this). To travel the above distance in this time requires a velocity of 3.355 x 10[sup]8[/sup].

The speed of light is 299,792,458 m s[sup]-1[/sup]. Sadly, our angels are travelling about 12% faster than the speed of light.

Your emboldened claim is false and the situation described in the Qu'ran physically impossible.

(mslems believe that angels are low density creatures, and that God created them originally from light )


yet , i didn't proof anything , be patient

there is another verse in the quran informes us different informations about traveling of angles from earth to heaven which say

70-4 The angels and the Spirit ascend to Him in a day, the measure of which is fifty thousand years.

Here angels will experience 1 day while humans will measure it as 50,000 years (time vs. time and not time vs. distance as the previous lunar verse)

However, according to the theory of special relativity, given this time difference (time dilation), we can calculate the speed at which that object traveled.

We can verify if those angels really accelerate up to the speed of light, as claimed by Moslems, on the first verse

Where ∆to is the time measured for a mover by a mover;
∆t is the time measured for a mover by a stationary frame; v is the velocity of the mover relative to the stationary observer)
∆to is the time experienced by angels (1 day).
∆t is the time as measured by humans (50,000 lunar years x12 lunar months/lunar year x 27.321661 days/lunar month).
v is the velocity of angels in this case (which we intend to calculate and then compare to the known speed of light).
c is the known speed of light 2997924.48 km/s, the speed of light in vacuum


From the above equation we can solve for the unknown velocity:

So let’s insert the Moslem claims and see if their angels really accelerate up to the speed of light or not. Insert dates from this verse The angels and the Spirit ascend to Him in a day, the measure of which is fifty thousand years into the formula

v = 299792.4579999994 km / s ( and this is the speed of light )

No, it is approximately the speed of light. As your own equations show, it is c multiplied by some factor.

Now, the important thing to notice is that you could pick any two time intervals that differ greatly (i.e., one relatively short and one relatively long) and you would calculate a velocity that is approximately c.

As the ratio of the two time intervals increases, v tends towards c. It doesn't matter whether the Qu'ran says 50000 lunar years of 50 billion lunar years: either way, you end up with a value of v that is exceedingly close to c.

Your calculations are unremarkable.

But even if they showed that angels travelled at the speed of light, how would that have validated the Qu'ran?

 

[-Vincent-]

I read an article that related that the speed of light was faster in the past and is slowing down. Each of the measurements over the history that it has been measured is a slower speed. Perhaps light did move 12% faster when the Koran was written...

 

[Wiccan_Child]

I read an article that related that the speed of light was faster in the past and is slowing down. Each of the measurements over the history that it has been measured is a slower speed. Perhaps light did move 12% faster when the Koran was written...

Perhaps it did, but there is no evidence that it has ever deviated from its current speed, nor do we know of any way by which this can occur.

We know that c = (ε[sub]0[/sub]μ[sub]0[/sub])[sup]-½[/sup], so any change in the speed of light would correspond to a change in the permittivity and/or permeability of free space. There is no evidence that either of these have changed either.

Can you cite meta-analyses of these measurements? I'd imagine a variable speed of light to be something at the forefront of science, yet I've never heard of it in all my years.

 

[-Vincent-]

Speed of light slowing down?

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Speed of light slowing down?

It would help if your source were unbiased, and didn't seek to undermine science and scientific education.

 

[elwill]

No, it doesn't.

The Moon travels in a roughly circular orbit, the mean radius of which is r = 3.844 x 10[sup]8[/sup] m. This corresponds to a circumference of 2πr = 2.415 x 10[sup]9[/sup] m. Thus, 12000 orbits covers a distance of 2.898 x 10[sup]13[/sup] m.

Now, one day is 86400 seconds (this is the exact modern definition; the definitions used in 7[sup]th[/sup] century would be very close to this). To travel the above distance in this time requires a velocity of 3.355 x 10[sup]8[/sup].

The speed of light is 299,792,458 m s[sup]-1[/sup]. Sadly, our angels are travelling about 12% faster than the speed of light.

thank you for your respond
where is the point exactly which you disagree with ?
the defination of quran which i used to calculate the speen of angles were reference to lunar orbit ( i didn't mentioned absolute value for the speed)

any way the definition of quran will be true for ever!
because when we compare the nominal speed of light in vacuum with 12000 Lunar Orbits / Earth Day inside the gravitational field of the sun we get 11% difference. When we compare themoutside the gravitational field of the sun we get zero% difference:

The distance to the sun is not a constant; so as the distance to the sun increases the difference in energy causes the length of the lunar orbit to change. When the Earth-moon system exits the solar system 12000 Lunar Orbits / Earth Day becomes equal to the speed of light. Hence, if it is defined inside the gravitational field of the sun then this definition will be wrong with time; however since it is defined in free space (outside the gravitational field of the sun) then this definition will be true for ever!

No, it is approximately the speed of light. As your own equations show, it is c multiplied by some factor.

Now, the important thing to notice is that you could pick any two time intervals that differ greatly (i.e., one relatively short and one relatively long) and you would calculate a velocity that is approximately c.

As the ratio of the two time intervals increases, v tends towards c. It doesn't matter whether the Qu'ran says 50000 lunar years of 50 billion lunar years: either way, you end up with a value of v that is exceedingly close to c.

Your calculations are unremarkable.

i agree with you
but didn't you notice that quran mentioned the most accurate time " 50000" which will give us the most acurate value for the speed of light calculated by 12000 lunar / orbit !

But even if they showed that angels travelled at the speed of light, how would that have validated the Qu'ran?

it wasn't my point to proof that angles travels in the speed of light
actually my main point is to proof how accurate is quran , and how it's verses complement and fulfill and proof each other

i calculated the speed of angles in the first verse from the veriables quran gave about angles

inn another verse i calculated the speed of the same object by another equation "relativity" with reference of new veriables to conclude exactly and not approximatly the same speed for the same object

this was my main point

thank you for your insert , i appreciate it

 

[The Nihilist]

Anyone remember that old video of Donald Duck using math to play billiards? Does this remind you of that?

 

[The Nihilist]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EM2LjQrwO6g
There it is

 

[elwill]

I read an article that related that the speed of light was faster in the past and is slowing down. Each of the measurements over the history that it has been measured is a slower speed. Perhaps light did move 12% faster when the Koran was written...

yes i agree with you , the speed of light is differ with time according to our calculations inside gravitational field of the sun

From General Relativity we know that an observer standing outside gravitational fields looks at events inside gravitational fields and sees them in slow motion. When he steps inside those gravitational fields he sees them in normal speeds. But now he looks back at where he was outside gravitational fields and sees the events there in fast motion.

In our case the event is the moon orbiting Earth. When an observer in stronger gravitational fields, near a black hole for example, looks at the Earth-moon system he does not see the moon orbiting Earth once every month; instead he sees the moon orbiting Earth once every few seconds; he also sees the length of the lunar orbit to be much longer than we see it. This is because the gravitational field that he is in causes his clock to run slower and his ruler to shrink.
Not only observers in different gravitational fields will not agree on the time period for the lunar orbit but also they will not agree on the length of the lunar orbit either.

By using classical orbital mechanics it was discovered that all observers will see the speed of light outside gravitational fields equal to 12000 Lunar Orbits/Earth Day; but from General Relativity we know that they will never agree on a value in km/sec. An observer near a black hole for example sees the speed of light outside gravitational fields a zillion km/s, but still equal to 12000 Lunar Orbits/Earth Day! This means that if the speed of angels outside gravitational fields were defined in km/sec then it would have appeared to vary for observers in different gravitational fields

however since this speed was defined in Lunar Orbits/Earth Day then it will never appear to vary to anyone because 12000 Lunar Orbits/Earth Day is common to all observers. Hence the Quran gave us a better definition for time and distance: A definition common to all observers, forever!!!

 

[The Nihilist]

no

 

[Wiccan_Child]

thank you for your respond
where is the point exactly which you disagree with ?

You said the angles travel at exactly the speed of light. This is false: the angles travel at 12% above the speed of light.

the defination of quran which i used to calculate the speen of angles were reference to lunar orbit ( i didn't mentioned absolute value for the speed)

any way the definition of quran will be true for ever!
because when we compare the nominal speed of light in vacuum with 12000 Lunar Orbits / Earth Day inside the gravitational field of the sun we get 11% difference. When we compare themoutside the gravitational field of the sun we get zero% difference

Can you justify this claim? What makes you think that, without the gravitational effect of the Sun, the lunar orbit to day ratio would be different?

The distance to the sun is not a constant; so as the distance to the sun increases the difference in energy causes the length of the lunar orbit to change. When the Earth-moon system exits the solar system 12000 Lunar Orbits / Earth Day becomes equal to the speed of light. Hence, if it is defined inside the gravitational field of the sun then this definition will be wrong with time; however since it is defined in free space (outside the gravitational field of the sun) then this definition will be true for ever!

First, there is no indication that it is defined in free space.
Second, what makes you think that the Sun affects the Moon's orbit by any significant amount?
Third, what makes you think that an idealised system would have an orbit-to-day ratio equal to exactly the speed of light?

i agree with you
but didn't you notice that quran mentioned the most accurate time " 50000" which will give us the most acurate value for the speed of light calculated by 12000 lunar / orbit !

No, it does not. 60000 years would give a more accurate value. In fact, any value bigger than 50000 would give a more accurate value for the speed of light.

That's the point. The Qu'ran doesn't give do anything remarkable. One of the crucial features of Special Relativity is to tend velocities off to c.

it wasn't my point to proof that angles travels in the speed of light
actually my main point is to proof how accurate is quran , and how it's verses complement and fulfill and proof each other

i calculated the speed of angles in the first verse from the veriables quran gave about angles

inn another verse i calculated the speed of the same object by another equation "relativity" with reference of new veriables to conclude exactly and not approximatly the same speed for the same object

There is no reference whatsoever. You arbitrarily assumed the two values were the same, calculated a value close to c, then simply declared that it was c. As I said, any large value will do the same; there is nothing special about the Qu'ran's values.

Now, as to your post on General Relativity, while the flow of time does change in a gravitational field, you have yet to quantify the claim that this 'perfects' the Qu'ran's values. Have you gone through the calculations yourself?

thank you for your insert , i appreciate it

And I appreciate your reply .

 

[elwill]

You said the angles travel at exactly the speed of light. This is false: the angles travel at 12% above the speed of light.

quran didn't mentioned that angels travel at the speed of light , all what quran said is that they travel in one day the same distance of 12000 lunar orbit
then i concluded from science that this defination define the speed of light outside gravitational field

Can you justify this claim? What makes you think that, without the gravitational effect of the Sun, the lunar orbit to day ratio would be different?

i think that your question cosist of two questions actually .
the first one is . how the gravitational field effect on speed of light ?

"The speed of light is _not_ constant in a gravitational field, but depends upon the reference frame of the observer. An observer anywhere in free fall will measure (locally) the traditional value of c. An observer sufficiently far away from the source of the field will conclude likewise that the speed of light is c (locally). But, the observer far away from the source will likewise conclude that the speed of light closer in to the source decreases as the source is approached.

http://www.physlink.com/education/AskExperts/ae13.cfm

you can read the details of the site to understand why and how the speed of light not constant inside the gravitational field

Since the distance to the sun is not a constant then if it is defined inside the gravitational field of the sun then this definition will be wrong with time
or with another words , if we formed an equation to calculate the speed of light inside the gravitational field , so the speed of light will differ with time

plz feel free to asking if there is anything not clear , i'm not scientist myself but i gain great benefits from such scientific discussions . thank you agian

anyway i think that the second question will be , why then we must use the lunar orbit as reference to make accurate equation for our calculations ?

do you know that the same half of the moon always faces Earth? The moon has been facing Earth like this for more than 4 billion years. Just like Earth rotates on its axis once every day with respect to stars, the moon also rotates on its axis with respect to stars. Since the moon keeps facing Earth this means that the moon needs to travel 360 degrees around Earth with respect to stars in order to rotate 360 degrees on its axis with respect to stars. When the moon first formed it was very close to Earth and it orbited Earth once every few hours, today this period is 27 days, and as the moon continues to recede this period will continue to increase; the greater the distance from Earth the greater this period becomes. When this period becomes 50 days, for example, this also means that it will take the moon 50 days to rotate 360 degrees on its axis with respect to stars. So as the moon recedes from Earth its spin with respect to stars slows down, that is, it loses rotational kinetic energy (this is different from moon's kinetic energy due to moon's motion around Earth). If the distance to the Earth increases to infinity, the moon would stop spinning with respect to stars and hence its rotational kinetic energy decreases to zero.

This proves that the moon's rotational kinetic energy is a function of the distance from Earth. Similarly, the total energy of the Earth-moon system is a function of the distance from the sun.

do you realize what i meant to say ? the total energy of the eath moon system is a function of the distance from the sun
so that using earth-moon system in our clacuations as to be defination will be correct for ever even with the variation of distance from the sun


there are many answers for your question , if you not convivced yet or if you think that i'm said somthing wrong or not scientific , so plz feel free to correcting me

First, there is no indication that it is defined in free space.
Second, what makes you think that the Sun affects the Moon's orbit by any significant amount?

for your first question . quran gave us this equation
C t' = 12000 L'

c : Is the speed of angels, which we intend to calculate and then compare to the known speed of light (no external forces, no acceleration, no deceleration).

t' : Is the Earth Day outside gravitational fields i.e. time for one rotation of Earth about its axis with respect to the stars.

L' Is the length of the lunar orbit outside gravitational fields (no external forces, no acceleration, no deceleration).

quran didn't refere to it to be in space , it's the scientist are the ones whom use the same eguation to define thier mathes outside gravitational field . which will be accurate ever
my point is that quran gave us this equation which will be accurate for ever

for your second question , i think i responded to it within my previous responds

Third, what makes you think that an idealised system would have an orbit-to-day ratio equal to exactly the speed of light?

because the total energy of the Earth-moon system is a function of the distance from the sun.
i talked about that above either
the point is that using orbit-to -day ratio will give the same speed for any observers in any place and in any time

No, it does not. 60000 years would give a more accurate value. In fact, any value bigger than 50000 would give a more accurate value for the speed of light.

can you calculate it and show me please
and note that i'm don't mean to proof the speed of light , let us say that i try to proof that speed of angeles calculated from both of verses are identical

There is no reference whatsoever. You arbitrarily assumed the two values were the same, calculated a value close to c, then simply declared that it was c. As I said, any large value will do the same; there is nothing special about the Qu'ran's values.

if you think that it was coincidance for someone illitral lived in desert 1400 years ago to write such verses about the speed of angeles , so it's okey

Now, as to your post on General Relativity, while the flow of time does change in a gravitational field, you have yet to quantify the claim that this 'perfects' the Qu'ran's values. Have you gone through the calculations yourself?

honestly , no

 

[Wiccan_Child]

I notice that a lot of your info comes from this website:

http://www.speed-light.info/

Without citing the site, you are plagiarising.

quran didn't mentioned that angels travel at the speed of light , all what quran said is that they travel in one day the same distance of 12000 lunar orbit
then i concluded from science that this defination define the speed of light outside gravitational field

No, you just asserted that. It in fact does no such thing.

i think that your question cosist of two questions actually .
the first one is . how the gravitational field effect on speed of light ?

"The speed of light is _not_ constant in a gravitational field, but depends upon the reference frame of the observer. An observer anywhere in free fall will measure (locally) the traditional value of c. An observer sufficiently far away from the source of the field will conclude likewise that the speed of light is c (locally). But, the observer far away from the source will likewise conclude that the speed of light closer in to the source decreases as the source is approached.

http://www.physlink.com/education/AskExperts/ae13.cfm

you can read the details of the site to understand why and how the speed of light not constant inside the gravitational field

No, I fully accept that gravitational fields affect the speed of light. But that has nothing to do with the problem at hand: the speed of light is 299,792,458 m s[sup]-1[/sup] when it's not in a vacuum. Applying relativity to the Qu'ran's verses does not give you this value.

do you realize what i meant to say ? the total energy of the eath moon system is a function of the distance from the sun

Why is it?

for your first question . quran gave us this equation

[snip]

quran didn't refere to it to be in space , it's the scientist are the ones whom use the same eguation to define thier mathes outside gravitational field . which will be accurate ever
my point is that quran gave us this equation which will be accurate for ever

No, it won't. By your own admission, the Moon's orbit changes with time: it was very close to the Earth ~4 billion years ago, but now it's far away.

can you calculate it and show me please
and note that i'm don't mean to proof the speed of light , let us say that i try to proof that speed of angeles calculated from both of verses are identical

If the angels are travelling at a velocity such that one day for them is 50000 sidereal years for us, then their velocity is given by:

Where:
v is the velocity of the angles,
c is 299,792,458 m s[sup]-1[/sup] (i.e., lightspeed),
t is the time as measured by us, the observers, and
t[sub]0[/sub] is the time as measured by the angels.

t is 50000 lunar years. One lunar year is 27.321582 Earth days.
t[sub]0[/sub] is one Earth day.

Thus:

Which evaluates to: 299792457.99991965, or 99.9999999999732% of the speed of light.

Doing the same thing with t = 60000 lunar years gives a velocity of: 299792457.9999442, or 99.9999999999813% of the speed of light.

In other words, larger values of t give values of v that are closer to c.

As you can see in the equation, the fraction in the square root gets smaller and smaller as t gets bigger and bigger, thus driving v closer and closer to t. The following is a graph of v against t.

Where the red line is the value of v calculated at various t, and the blue line is the value for the speed of light.

if you think that it was coincidance for someone illitral lived in desert 1400 years ago to write such verses about the speed of angeles , so it's okey

I think that he had no idea about time dilation and angelic velocities; he just chose large numbers.

 

[elwill]

I notice that a lot of your info comes from this website:

http://www.speed-light.info/

Without citing the site, you are plagiarising.


No, you just asserted that. It in fact does no such thing.

i think that i said within my discussion that i'm not a scientist , beside when you asked me if i did these calculations by myself i responded to you by " no "

but anyway if this site gave me wrong scientific informations , i will appresiate if you informed me

No, I fully accept that gravitational fields affect the speed of light. But that has nothing to do with the problem at hand: the speed of light is 299,792,458 m s[sup]-1[/sup] when it's not in a vacuum. Applying relativity to the Qu'ran's verses does not give you this value.

v = 299792.4579999994 km / s
isn't it the speed of light in space ?

Why is it?

because as long as the distance between sun and moon earth system increases , the moon earth system will lose it's rational kinitic energy

No, it won't. By your own admission, the Moon's orbit changes with time: it was very close to the Earth ~4 billion years ago, but now it's far away.

i said tht the equation which quran formed to refer to the speed of angeles (which is 12000 lunar orbit) will be true forever , not said that moon's orbit will be constant forever

If the angels are travelling at a velocity such that one day for them is 50000 sidereal years for us, then their velocity is given by:

Where:
v is the velocity of the angles,
c is 299,792,458 m s[sup]-1[/sup] (i.e., lightspeed),
t is the time as measured by us, the observers, and
t[sub]0[/sub] is the time as measured by the angels.

t is 50000 lunar years. One lunar year is 27.321582 Earth days.
t[sub]0[/sub] is one Earth day.

Thus:

Which evaluates to: 299792457.99991965, or 99.9999999999732% of the speed of light.

Doing the same thing with t = 60000 lunar years gives a velocity of: 299792457.9999442, or 99.9999999999813% of the speed of light.

In other words, larger values of t give values of v that are closer to c.

As you can see in the equation, the fraction in the square root gets smaller and smaller as t gets bigger and bigger, thus driving v closer and closer to t. The following is a graph of v against t.

Where the red line is the value of v calculated at various t, and the blue line is the value for the speed of light.

where is your calculations , you used the same vlaue quran used (50000)
, you said to me that 60000 will be more accurate but you didn't used it to proof your theory to me why ?

I think that he had no idea about time dilation and angelic velocities; he just chose large numbers.

as for mohammed (pbuh) i agree with you that he have no idea about time dilation and angelic velocities , actually i believe that quran is the word of God not word of mohammed (pbuh) , and offcourse God knows about time dilation and angelic velocities .

 

[Wiccan_Child]

v = 299792.4579999994 km / s
isn't it the speed of light in space ?

No. The speed of light is exactly 299,792,458 m s[sup]-1[/sup].

because as long as the distance between sun and moon earth system increases , the moon earth system will lose it's rational kinitic energy

Why will it?

where is your calculations , you used the same vlaue quran used (50000)
, you said to me that 60000 will be more accurate but you didn't used it to proof your theory to me why ?

What? Yes, I did. I used both values and showed that 60000 is more accurate than 50000.

Using 50000, v = 299,792,457.99991965 m s[sup]-1[/sup]
Using 60000, v = 299,792,457.9999442 m s[sup]-1[/sup]
The speed of light is 299,792,458

So you can see that 60000 gives a value of v that is closer to c than that given by 50000.

as for mohammed (pbuh) i agree with you that he have no idea about time dilation and angelic velocities , actually i believe that quran is the word of God not word of mohammed (pbuh) , and offcourse God knows about time dilation and angelic velocities .

Why would he encode such valuable information in such a vague and convoluted way? Why did he not also include information on how to cure disease, bring peace to all men, to end discrimination and bloody violence, etc?