speaking the word over inanimate objects

[hhodgson]

How about listening to a preacher who has prepared the meat and left out the bones? I agree to search things out and hold to what is good. A good helping of the Word of God by opening my bible is sufficient. As for the baby and the bath water, what do we need this for if we are washed with the pure water of the Word? Not diving into a dumpster for a little nugget of truth.

The leaving out the bones could be lack of knowledge to the one preaching that could be a revelation for someone else who believes differently. The teacher that you listen to (if there is one) may not have any nuggets to enhance my beliefs and the ones I watch and listen to may not have any for your beliefs. This should make sense to you since there are several Christian denominational background beliefs among the Body of Christ. I must say this though and I believe you would agree that whether we listen to various teachers of the Word or not. God is our source.

The best nuggets come from reading the Word and the Holy Spirit teaching us and reminding us of what we have read and learned.

Absolutely... The best nuggets DO come from reading the Word and the Holy Spirit teaching us and reminding us of what we have read and learned (as you quoted) is correct... but, if ten (true fruit bearing) Baptists, and Charismatic teachers in the same study room "together" sharing the Word with each other in what they say is the Holy Spirit teaching them, and still... NONE of them will (fully agree) with each others interpretation. Not only that but the same group of ten Baptists will NOT fully agree with each other. Same with the Charismatics.

So, how do we handle this when TIME is short and we see that day approaching? If we spend precious time "trying" to prove who is right or wrong, who wins? Satan! We know that "in our redeemed spirit" we are ONE with each other and with God. We may differ much in what we believe. Example: Being slayed in the Spirit, speaking in tongues, holy laughter, etc. In the long run that doesn't matter. But, "Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shall be saved, and thy house"... does matter! (Acts 16:31).

So, what do we do if none of us will change the way we think or believe in the 15% we differ, or whatever? Do we keep "beating" our chests and saying I can prove I'm right and you are wrong, WHILE... our friends, neighbors and loved ones are heading for hell? How hard is it to Love one another which is our (one and only) Commandment we have in the New Covenant of GRACE? I am speaking to the Church in general.

Time is short Bloodbought09... I think that you can agree with me that the (true) Church needs to be more aggressive in our faith to equip the saints, and to win the lost.

Any thoughts? ​

​

 

[jerry kelso]

For me I name and claim the Word of God,simple as that.

John: 15. 7. If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. 8. Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. 9. As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. 10. If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
No matter how much it places a thorn in our critics side,they can debate the validy of such verses but they can never change them.

nowfaith,
I believe we should have confidence in what God says in his word for without faith it is impossible to please God.
Name and claim it in the sense of the fact that we can take hold of the promises of God, but it has been the extremes that detour off the road that people need to understand. Jerry kelso

 

[jerry kelso]

The Old Testament had a monetary system based primarily on agriculture.

The 30 60 100 fold blessing is the Word of God.
When we abide in the Word and confess the Word in prayer,we receive all the promises in God's Word,Spirtual,Physical,Financial according to the power in us some 30 60 100 fold.

Christ message was eternal life.

Paul received from the Churches he ministered to.

If you give in secret God will reward you openly.

Malachi is just as relevant today as it was then.

Stewardship applies to how we handle God's money as in tithing.

Jerry we welcome you and hope to give you a better understanding of how we apply Kingdom principles.
There is much more Bible verse that needs to be posted for your answers.

nowfaith,
I understand your abiding in Christ and I have no problem with that. I understand about confessing and I have no problem confessing the truth of God in his word.

2. Historically, the tithe Abraham gave of his spoils of the war. Israel under the law had to mandatorily give the tithe in order to be blessed under the blessing and cursing system. Under the 30, 60, 90 fold which was under the age of law but had the sowing and reaping in a slightly different manner and the seed was sown in Jesus day was a message and not agriculture, The result of that message is what was reaped. The extremes of some prosperity teachers is sowing money and formulas and doing something to get something. Romans 8 talks about God giving his son so he could freely give us all things. There is no sowing money in the scriptures, if there is show me I would like to know.

3. There are many who name and claim and go awry. This doesn't mean that they are not abiding in Christ or confessing faith necessarily.
God wants us to prosper in every avenue of our life and all things are won in the throne room and we can allocate those things because of the finished work of Christ and not what we do.

4. Malachi is not in effect in the same manner as in the jews day under the law. It was mandatory and the priests were defiling the temple and they were not giving the tithe and they had robbed God. The curse were their crops and the blessing would be full storehouses of grain. We are not under this system.
At the same time it doesn't necessarily mean that we will be as blessed as we could be by God in the way that he wants us to be blessed.
This teaching teaches a doctrine of fear. We are not taught to be legalistic to commandments. We are to be who we are in Christ and believe in what he did on the cross. Christ teachings were what you do for they were under the law. The new covenant is what he did which was the cross. There is no actual sowing of money in the new covenant. Money may be reaped as in Paul's reaping carnal goods message.
The questions are is it right to apply old testament ethics and certain beliefs on the new covenant teachings? Only if it was in the new covenant would be the answer. Paul said, one should give cheerfully and not because it is mandatory. This doesn't mean that one cannot give cheerfully under the law anymore than those under law could not be of who they are principle but the new covenant is built on better promises and I believe it is the mechanics of the covenant that are different.

5. I don't accuse WoF not being good stewards or not applying stewardship to giving and I believe in the laws of sowing and reaping.
The bottom line with most any doctrine is if their are extremes that develop. I believe this is a needful discussion of what the bible really says about giving and prosperity and what the proper perspective on the word. Jerry Kelso

 

[now faith]

Jerry ,I respect your opinion on this subject I used to think that the Old Testament was void under the New Covenant.
In reading through the Old Testament I discovered that I could see Christ in every aspect of it.
Christ himself taught from the Old Testament,and indeed was the God of Abraham, Isaac,and Jacob.
Ideed we do have a better covenant as joint heirs in Christ as God promised Abraham.
No man could keep the Law,so atonement by blood of animals was needed.
Christ fulfilled the law once and forever, giving us access to God's throne of grace.
Through Christ we are no longer separated from God ,but are part of the Holy family as sons of God.
That is the greatest news ever told the good news the Gospel.

I realize you understand this whole heartedly.
My point here is the Law of Moses was fulfilled,as well the curse of the law was no longer imputed for sin.

Galatians: 3. 13. Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: 14. That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

This promise is proprietary to the Law of Moses,before Moses and after Christ the Law was not in effect.
In Christ the Law is given to our heart in the inward man,before Moses the Law did not exist only death from sin was the judgement.

The Law is only one aspect of the Old Testament,the rest is still for our edification.
The Old Testament is God's Word.
Has mankind changed ? Yes but God has not.
The Old Testament is a plethora of knowledge,in literary context.
Some books are poetry,some are prophecy,and some are renderings of examples for our benefit.
Personally I believe Jacob set the example at Bethel a Holy place of God That he vowed a tenth of his first fruits.
1 Corinthians: 9. 11. If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things? 12. If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ. 13. Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the alter are partakers with the alter? 14. Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.
Paul is instructing the congregation that the ministers of the Church should receive from the Church.
Paul received offerings as well,but his role was a evangelist for planting Churches.

Philippians: 4. 14. Notwithstanding ye have well done, that ye did communicate with my affliction. 15. Now ye Philippians know also, that in the beginning of the gospel, when I departed from Macedonia, no church communicated with me as concerning giving and receiving, but ye only. 16. For even in Thessalonica ye sent once and again unto my necessity. 17. Not because I desire a gift: but I desire fruit that may abound to your account. 18. But I have all, and abound: I am full, having received of Epaphroditus the things which were sent from you, an odour of a sweet smell, a sacrifice acceptable, wellpleasing to God. 19. But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.

To conclude on the reference to the Old Testament:

2 Timothy: 3. 16. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17. That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. - Bible Offline

 

[now faith]

nowfaith,
I believe we should have confidence in what God says in his word for without faith it is impossible to please God.
Name and claim it in the sense of the fact that we can take hold of the promises of God, but it has been the extremes that detour off the road that people need to understand. Jerry kelso

Amen,you hit the nail on the head.
I suppose the slogan that has endured so much criticism,should have been name and proclaim God's Word.

 

[bloodbought09]

We are not only commanded to love one another but we also are commanded to love the Lord God with all our heart, mind, soul, and strength. Now, if a church is preaching "the circle maker", a false doctrine about prayer then I have to leave and withhold my money for a church teaching false doctrine. I do agree giving to a church that is preaching the Word and winning souls for Christ is worth it. This is an example of good stewardship. I think God will then bless 30, 60, and 100 fold not solely because of the money but because the gospel is preached and souls are won for the kingdom. Then my life is sown, my own seed buried and dies producing much fruit. My life is sown in death for the gospel and the 30, 60, and 100 fold are the children that are raised under my obedience. A preacher of truth begats many in the gospel. A false teacher and preacher begats children going to hell. Where just prosperity is preached and not the gospel, this is a religion of love of money. We cannot serve God and mammon. We should honor the true gospel and be happy that we are going to heaven and because of our obedience many more are as well.

 

[JustHisKid]

I know in the bible there are references where ppl spoke over an inanimate object with the word. Bill Winston mentioned to speak over your purse and confess the word that there is more money in it. Your thoughts?

Speak over your purse and confess there is more money in it? I'm pretty sure the point of confession is to agree with God you are a sinner. You can't speak things into existence like God does. If you want more money, stop thinking about money and just serve the Lord.

 

[JustHisKid]

I understand and am aware of the word. I am not interested in the love of money and the prosperity gospel.

I am not interested in the prosperity gospel either because it is a false gospel.

 

[now faith]

I am not interested in the prosperity gospel either because it is a false gospel.

Well why don't you post in the poverty gospel forum?
It's right beside the barely getting by section.

 

[now faith]

1 John: 3. 17. But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him? 18. My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth. 19. And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him. 20. For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things. 21. Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God. 22. And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 23. And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 24. And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.


3 John: 1. 2. Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth. 3. For I rejoiced greatly, when the brethren came and testified of the truth that is in thee, even as thou walkest in the truth. 4. I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth. 5. Beloved, thou doest faithfully whatsoever thou doest to the brethren, and to strangers;


Must not be interested in The Word either.

 

[bloodbought09]

Well why don't you post in the poverty gospel forum?
It's right beside the barely getting by section.

Must be right next to "my grace is sufficient for thee" and "thorn in the flesh" section. lol

 

[bloodbought09]

Totally for God made prosperity and not man made. If we have His Son, we have everything, because He is everything. If we get any prosperity we ought to honor Him with it. Not too little and not too much where I love my stuff and say "Who is the Lord?"

 

[now faith]

We are not only commanded to love one another but we also are commanded to love the Lord God with all our heart, mind, soul, and strength. Now, if a church is preaching "the circle maker", a false doctrine about prayer then I have to leave and withhold my money for a church teaching false doctrine. I do agree giving to a church that is preaching the Word and winning souls for Christ is worth it. This is an example of good stewardship. I think God will then bless 30, 60, and 100 fold not solely because of the money but because the gospel is preached and souls are won for the kingdom. Then my life is sown, my own seed buried and dies producing much fruit. My life is sown in death for the gospel and the 30, 60, and 100 fold are the children that are raised under my obedience. A preacher of truth begats many in the gospel. A false teacher and preacher begats children going to hell. Where just prosperity is preached and not the gospel, this is a religion of love of money. We cannot serve God and mammon. We should honor the true gospel and be happy that we are going to heaven and because of our obedience many more are as well.

It's all about what you can do rather than what God has done.

Your idea of true Gospel is hypocritical,in that you enjoy provision in your life, but think it is false teaching to give God the glory for what you do have.

Your humble accusation of prosperity being false teaching, gives you pride in being a good steward in your self righteous view point.

If you have as much as a roof over your head you have been given it by God,yet you speak against prosperity.

Double minded is to say I may own a house but I do not believe in prosperity.

If you lived under a bridge naked eating oysters,your statement would be creditable,at least not hypocritical.

 

[now faith]

Totally for God made prosperity and not man made. If we have His Son, we have everything, because He is everything. If we get any prosperity we ought to honor Him with it. Not too little and not too much where I love my stuff and say "Who is the Lord?"

So you decide how much,but you said you do not believe in prosperity?

 

[now faith]

No one here in our forum places material goods before the Lord.

So who are you speaking against?

 

[JustHisKid]

Well why don't you post in the poverty gospel forum?
It's right beside the barely getting by section.

How about the "I work for a living" forum?

 

[bloodbought09]

No one here in our forum places material goods before the Lord.

So who are you speaking against?

Not speaking against anyone. Yes! God given prosperity and He gets the glory. I like to prosper in every part of my life. You are seeing hypocrisy where there is none. I want to prosper but the most important part is being saved and seeing others saved. When the message is only prosperity and no gospel, it is underhanded and beggarly. Being rich is not always a sign of being in right standing with God. There are people martyred for their faith in other parts of the world, held captive, and given little or no provision. If we had just a little bit of persecution in this country, which we do now, it will separate the wheat from the chaff. Falling away is here and I want to be held down by the Anchor of my soul.

 

[JustHisKid]

Not speaking against anyone. Yes! God given prosperity and He gets the glory. I like to prosper in every part of my life. You are seeing hypocrisy where there is none. I want to prosper but the most important part is being saved and seeing others saved. When the message is only prosperity and no gospel, it is underhanded and beggarly. Being rich is not always a sign of being in right standing with God. There are people martyred for their faith in other parts of the world, held captive, and given little or no provision. If we had just a little bit of persecution in this country, which we do now, it will separate the wheat from the chaff. Falling away is here and I want to be held down by the Anchor of my soul.

God promises us an abundant life. That rarely means material possessions. Wood, hay, stubble.

 

[bloodbought09]

God promises us an abundant life. That rarely means material possessions. Wood, hay, stubble.

God did give me a nice blue truck which I dreamed of before my dad asked if I wanted to go look at this truck for sell. I did have to work and pay my dad back every penny. God also gave me an atheist professing dad but a very generous man and retired hard working mechanic. I received a free coffee table, and dining set. So, God sometimes gives me material possessions that I need.

His word says that there is one foundation and that is Jesus Christ. Any other foundation is standing on quicksand. His word does warn about how we build our infrastructure on that house and the materials we use for it.

The rich young ruler wanted to follow Jesus but Jesus knew the young ruler loved his stuff. He told him to sell his possessions and come follow Him. He went away sad cuz he loved his stuff. Jesus said it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. As hard as a camel going through the eye of a needle. But with God all things are possible.

Honestly, whoever we listen to does matter but we need to be in the word ourselves. After some time we may see who falls on their face and who does not because we are to focus on the cross of Christ and not a man to feed our itching ears. If something passes the test of holding up to scripture then I keep it but for instance if someone comes by saying they want to transfer their anointing to me, I am running. Only God anoints me and His Son opens my understanding.

 

[bloodbought09]

Wisdom is more precious than rubies or gold. He does promise us an abundant life. My dining table holds my dinner for two that I prepare for my girlfriend and I. My coffee table is by my bedside and holds my remote and christian literature that I read. The best thing about a gift is giving it back to God for His use.