otter272 said:
Just as a sidenote.........the word Catholic was not invented until the 5th century.
The original church was started in Jerusalem and most of the churches that were started at the start of Christianity were in Asia Minor, far away from Rome.
Peter can be pegged in Rome in the late 40's AD. Around the time MAthews gospel was written.
the issue with romanism is not if it was the first church, that is a fallacious argument. it is it's primacy, leadership that it eventually became. AL bishops in other churches looked to Rome for guidance, thus, it became the central place of doctrine and disputes were usually settled in favor of what Rome understood and other bishops, followed suit.
That is the real history.
Later, as the other churches such as those in the east or otehrwise, either vanished or were settled into a small area, the Roman church grew and encpmassed the whole world... It wsa thru the evangelization thru the Roman church that Rome finally got a christian empoeror and ended christian persecution. it's not that it was first but it proved itself by it's fruit. South AMerica is over 90% catholic , or so the numbers go. Christianity represents 1/3 of the world population, most of it is roman catholic with the orthodox very close behind.... All the protestant denominations combined don't add up to either the orthodox or the catholic church in numbers. Thes are simple enough to find stats, any google will yield it.
also, the term catholic or universal, yo usay it wsa first used in the 5th century.
interesting sine the apostles creed, some say was created around 60 AD incluided ther term one catholic church within it's creed, a creed that tertullian was very familiar with since in 4 of his writings, he almost completely copies word for word, the lines of it in his writings....
The issue with arguing the tem ctholic is that you see catholic as ONE of the many christian grops. HOWEVER, it was all ONE FATIH< ONE CHURCH, a universal "catholic" church. When schisms were created, the one universal catholic curch continued and did not recognize the heretics. OWEVER< the heretics felt they were right adn that the catholic church was no longer universal as in one, there were others whose voices wanted to be heard. So it was the broken off branches that boasted agaisnt the truk of the tree and claimed relationship outside the trunk from which they sprang.
Today, the catholic church recognizes that altho there were schisms over some even trivial matters, we oght to try to universally agree on basic principles of the faith since we are all really one. We identify more ove the things that seperate us than the things we all share in common. Everyone hsa the truth cuz every one else has some form of heresy. tha is the attitude....
Many churches cn't agreee whether they are once saved always aved or whether it is a will in bondage or whether they can lose their salvation, basic foundational stuff, yet smaller disputes than these, semantics such as Mother of God vs Mother of Jesus became what one schism was over... (when the bible says of Elizabeth when she met MAry.. the mother of my Lord)... But semantics and fleshy men caused schisms...
Chrsit prayed that we all be one.... His prayer wsa not answered, he knew of the infighting among his own....
So, at one time catholic wsa universal but now, today, heretics and non heretics alike share their views in a politidcally correct society. all protestant deniminations will find commonality in the reformation against the catholics but disagree when a catholic is not around... cults like mormonism and JW will boast agaisnt the protestants as daughters of babylon... each boasts until a common enemy is found, they they both attack that common enemy.
One attack is to say catholic didn't exist til the 5th century, as if we made this all up
(rolling eyes)
Carmine
