Speaking in tongues

[GingerBeer]

Talking gibberish, pretending, just silly... how very respectful and non-inflammatory.

And accurate.

 

[Unnamed Guy]

1 Corinthians 12 King James Version (KJV)
1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.

Ok, there we have the word "gifts". Don't read it in where it doesn't appear.

2 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.
3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

There it is again.

5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

It says "manifestation", not "gift".

8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

Ok, to one what? The word 'one' is a pronoun. It refers to the last, preceding, qualified, noun. That is profit. The manifestation is given to profit, not to a man. Verse 7 said it's given to every man, remember?

9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

Again the pronoun: to another profit, faith. To another profit, gifts of healing. There we have the word 'gifts' again. It is Greek doron, a gift to one person to benefit another person.

10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

Notice that verse 10 says "discerning of spirits", not "the gift of discernment." Discernment is not a biblical topic. Somebody made it up.

11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

Proper English again: "he" is a pronoun referring to "every man". It is correctly translated "dividing to every man severally as he wills." That agrees with 1 Corinthians 14:32.

1 Corinthians 14:32 King James Version (KJV)
32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.

Bottom line: Stop talking about spiritual "gifts".

 

[Jonathan Mathews]

I was Born Again for about 15 years before I ever spoke in Tongues. But it came and it was a definite language, and there was an Interpretation. I have also been in church services where the crowd became hushed, a single man stood up and spoke in a "royal" unknown language, and when he sat down, another stood up and spoke the English interpretation. In my spirit, I KNEW his interpretation was right because it agreed with what the Holy Spirit had been telling me personally throughout that week. Not everyone speaks in Tongues that is saved, but it is a very real gift of the Spirit of Jesus Christ that will not cease until "the Perfect has come", which is the return of Christ. Tongues however, is the LEAST of the Gifts. It is better to Prophesy (1 Corinthians 14:5)

 

[topher694]

Note the part in my post about quibbling over definitions being the milk of the word? If using the term gifts is something that has been done for decades or longer and is something that can be used so people can easily identify what one is talking about, then great. You know what else is not in the bible? Books, chapters and verses, those were added later, let's stop using scripture references!

Is manifestations a more accurate term, yeah, probably. I personally use than term quite a lot. But, there's more important things than definitions, like actually going out and flowing in them and seeing people touched by God.

 

[Jonathan Mathews]

Also, there are 3 manifestations of the Gift of Tongues, so let's be clear:

1) Pentacostal Miracle of Tongues (Pentecost where the single message was directly heard in each person's own language). As far as we know, this was a one-time miracle event to expedite the immediate spread of the Gospel. God could do it again, but I've never heard of it.

2) Messages in Tongues with Interpretation (A distinct, spoken, royal, unknown language, which interpretation). This a Corporate church method of God speaking directly to a congregation. It's very powerful, mysterious, and MUST be followed by Interpretation,with a single speaker, in an orderly fashion.

3) Praying in the Spirit (aka individual praying in Tongues). This is your spirit making noise directly to God. It is NOT to be done in Corporate worship, only alone with God as it edifies yourself only, and not others. This is what is abused in many pentacostal services.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

I never hear from any charismatic that tongues was a requirement for salvation.

It is the belief of the AOG and probably others, that the initial evidence of receiving the Holy Spirit is "speaking in tongues". This is in their articles of faith. So this is where the thought of tongues as a requirement comes from and in turn causing the extreme division we see today. After all scripture tells us this:

Romans 8
9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.

One can imagine, this pressure to speak in other tongues becomes an obsession thus producing a systematic course in the pursuit of this manifestation when all along it is just ONE of the gifts God MAY give a believer.

Artile 8
http://agchurches.org/Sitefiles/Default/RSS/AG.org TOP/Fundamental Truths (cond).pdf

 

[topher694]

It is the belief of the AOG and probably others, that the initial evidence of receiving the Holy Spirit is "speaking in tongues". This is in their articles of faith. So this is where the thought of tongues as a requirement comes from and in turn causing the extreme division we see today. After all scripture tells us this:

Romans 8
9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.

One can imagine, this pressure to speak in other tongues becomes an obsession thus producing a systematic course in the pursuit of this manifestation when all along it is just ONE of the gifts God MAY give a believer.

Artile 8
http://agchurches.org/Sitefiles/Default/RSS/AG.org TOP/Fundamental Truths (cond).pdf

I've actually worked very closely with *AOG pastors on this very topic and studied their statements of faith, and while I've had my issues with them, I can say with confidence that AOG believes that tongues is the initial evidence of the baptism of the Holy Spirit, NOT a requirement for salvation. Although I can see how one could read it that way and be confused. And, that's not to say that there aren't AG pastors out there misrepresenting it, I don't know of any, but it wouldn't surprise me.

*I am not AOG

 

[Maria Billingsley]

baptism of the Holy Spirit, NOT a requirement for salvation.

However if you read scripture, it explicitly states that without the Holy Spirit there is no salvation. The problem is the concept of a "second" Holy Spirit baptism. They do not clarify the Holy Spirit dwelling in the believer from their initial belief. There is only one Spirit. They need to add or clarify that "upon conversion the believer receives THE Holy Spirit. It does not say this. Instead there is a concept of the "second" baptism floating around thus creating even more confusion.
Blessings

 

[topher694]

However if you read scripture, it explicitly states that without the Holy Spirit there is no salvation. The problem is the concept of a "second" Holy Spirit baptism. They do not clarify the Holy Spirit dwelling in the believer from their initial belief. There is only one Spirit. They need to add or clarify that "upon conversion the believer receives THE Holy Spirit. It does not say this. Instead there is a concept of the "second" baptism floating around thus creating even more confusion.
Blessings

I agree that it can cause confusion. That's why I worked so closely with them on it, because I was teaching on the topic in an AG church and I wanted to be clear what they believed so there would be no issues. This is how I often describe it:

Yes there is only one Spirit and that Spirit does the "inner work" of salvation when you make Jesus your Lord. By inner work I mean makes your spirit a "new man". The analogy I use is He is renovating His new home (us) and rewiring it to bring it up to code. The Baptism of the Holy Spirit is the same Spirit, but a separate event (we see this in Acts). This is us giving the Holy Spirit, who already dwells within us, permission to use us via the gifts (er manifestations) of the Spirit. The Holy Spirit won't force us to do anything we must give Him permission. Back to the analogy, now that the house is renovated and rewired (salvation), the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is turning the power switch on. Whether you use the power or not, the house has been rewired.

Not a perfect analogy, but it works pretty well.

 

[Dave-W]

He does not understand gibberish, this is why Paul said to pray and sing with your understanding. Ultimately this is what God is looking for. Your understanding.

You limit God. He can and does understand everything.

“Gibberish.” The buzz word of cessationists everywhere.

And you misquote Paul. He said:

1 Corinthians 14:15 NKJV
What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding.

Paul saw the importance of both.

 

[Dave-W]

However if you read scripture, it explicitly states that without the Holy Spirit there is no salvation. The problem is the concept of a "second" Holy Spirit baptism. They do not clarify the Holy Spirit dwelling in the believer from their initial belief. There is only one Spirit. They need to add or clarify that "upon conversion the believer receives THE Holy Spirit. It does not say this. Instead there is a concept of the "second" baptism floating around thus creating even more confusion.
Blessings

That is the distinction between “Spirit Within” and “Spirit Upon.” They are distinct in scripture and completely consistent in both testaments. (yes - spirit within happened in the OT)

Spirit within is for wisdom, understanding and godly character. Spirit upon is for signs and wonders, gifts of power. Which means being baptized in the Spirit and speaking in tongues is Spirit Upon, not within.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

You limit God. He can and does understand everything.

“Gibberish.” The buzz word of cessationists everywhere.

And you misquote Paul. He said:

1 Corinthians 14:15 NKJV
What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding.

Paul saw the importance of both.

For the record, I am not a cessationist and spoke in tongues upon conversion at the AOG church.
Blessings

 

[GodLovesCats]

However if you read scripture, it explicitly states that without the Holy Spirit there is no salvation. The problem is the concept of a "second" Holy Spirit baptism. They do not clarify the Holy Spirit dwelling in the believer from their initial belief. There is only one Spirit. They need to add or clarify that "upon conversion the believer receives THE Holy Spirit. It does not say this. Instead there is a concept of the "second" baptism floating around thus creating even more confusion.
Blessings

I never heard of a second Holy Spirit baptism. Where does this come from?

 

[Anto9us]

“Gibberish.” The buzz word of cessationists everywhere.

yes

 

[Just_a_Christian]

While researching Protestant denominations, I learned this interesting bit of information: Most, but not all, evangelicals and Pentecostals believe people still receive gifts from the Holy Spirit - including speaking in tongues - when they are saved. Although speaking in tongues is Biblical I have never heard of any new Christians doing so. The same article states other denominations hold the belief that this stopped a long time ago. This makes sense, but they lump together all Holy Spirit gifts, not just speaking in tongues. I don't believe it is all or nothing. What do you think?

Most Biblical references to tongues are not talking about the babble of an unknown tongue but rather a language spoken by someone other than the speaker.
1 Corinthians 13
The above scripture tells us that certain things will be done away with when that which is perfect (God's written word) is come. Regarding miracles, the Word says they were done to confirm the identity of Jesus. The Word also states that Jesus did many more miracles that were not recorded in the Bible but those we have record of were recorded so that we might believe. If miracles were performed today there would be no reason for that statement to exist. When someone is raised from the dead, I'll reconsider my position on that.
In Him

 

[GodLovesCats]

Miracles are still performed today. I was just talking about a Holy Spirit gift, not miracles such as healing.

 

[Just_a_Christian]

Miracles are still performed today. I was just talking about a Holy Spirit gift, not miracles such as healing.

God may perform a miracle anytime He wishes, but not man.
In Him

 

[Maria Billingsley]

I never heard of a second Holy Spirit baptism. Where does this come from?

I believe it started with Charles Fox Parham.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

I never heard of a second Holy Spirit baptism. Where does this come from?

Charles Fox Parham - Wikipedia

 

[Blade]

For me when that which is perfect is come.. yeah.. not even close yet. I received it just exactly as its written in the word. They asked (bible study).. I said yes.. they prayed.. then said..that's it you got it. I felt nothing. See they took GOD at His word..not what man says about Gods word. God said ask.. I asked.. and since GOD is not evil and always keeps His word... when I asked for the Holy Spirit He gave as He said He would. I got up.. went to sit down and it just came out. And as Jesus said.. you shall receive power.. "If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?"

Holy JESUS... I can not think ..forgive me what life would be with out it. See..it does not say "give tongues". He will give the Holy Spirit to them that ask. MAN comes along and says..gives his 2 cents. I just take GOD not man at GODS word. Tongues is just part or it. I have NEVER seen it as.. NOW I AM SAVED! haha.. na.

See they were all saved.. so.. did they not already have the Holy Spirit? Yet Jesus told them to wait..AFTER He rose..so they were all saved then "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;" But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you"

No clue why "Holy Spirit" some how always or most the time ends up about TONGUES! Sorry but when you doubt.. God is not going to then go against your feel choice. If John 3:16 is true.. why is Luke 11 13 not?

So.. if you never asked.. He said it not man.. so as you do with John 3 16.. do the same with Luke 11 13.. you ask Him ..you then KNOW no matter what you feel hear.. He will give it period.

to them that ask.. His words. The 12 were saved.. but something happen after the Holy Spirit came on them. Your Children of the promise just like them.