Speaking in tongues

[1stcenturylady]

Acts 2:4-11. Foreign human languages. Nowhere is it described as anything else.

You missed the tongues of angels...

 

[swordsman1]

You missed the tongues of angels...

No one spoke in the tongues of angels. That was Paul speaking hypothetically to make the point that even if someone had the gift of tongues to such a superlative degree it would be nothing without love.

 

[PollyJetix]

No one spoke in the tongues of angels. That was Paul speaking hypothetically to make the point that even if someone had the gift of tongues to such a superlative degree it would be nothing without love.

Actually, your explanation relies more on your predisposition against tongues, than in the actual words of Scripture.
Paul did not say that no one spoke in the tongues of angels. He only said "If". He left it open to possibility.
And logically, it is impossible to prove a negative. Therefore, you cannot prove your position, from logic applied to Scripture. Because Scripture does not say precisely what you are saying.

Logically, if you look at all the other things Paul mentioned, he was talking about things that people actually were doing.

Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

They were operating in the gift of prophecy. They were operating in the gifts that allowed them to understand spiritual mysteries. They were operating in the supernatural gift of knowledge. And they were acting in the supernatural gift of faith. And Jesus DID say that if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you can remove mountains!
Furthermore, giving goods to feed the poor is a very doable thing. And so is martyrdom.

Yes, Paul did speak of doing those things they WERE doing, as possibly doing them to the superlative degree. ALL mysteries. ALL knowledge. ALL faith. ALL my goods. And complete death in persecution.

But that hyperbole does not translate the "tongues of angels" into a hyperbolic impossibility.

As I said, it is a logical impossibility to prove a negative.
Go ahead and try.

 

[swordsman1]

Yes, Paul did speak of doing those things they WERE doing, as possibly doing them to the superlative degree. ALL mysteries. ALL knowledge. ALL faith. ALL my goods. And complete death in persecution.

But that hyperbole does not translate the "tongues of angels" into a hyperbolic impossibility.

As I said, it is a logical impossibility to prove a negative.
Go ahead and try.

That's correct, there are 5 hyperbolic parallel statements giving examples of each of those gifts to the highest degree imaginable:

If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels...
If I have the gift of prophecy and know all mysteries and all knowledge...
If I have all faith, so as to remove mountains...
If I give all my possessions to feed the poor...
if I surrender my body to be burned ...
... but do not have love, it profits me nothing.

Is it the normal operation of the gift of prophecy to know all mysteries and all knowledge ie become omniscient? No.
Is it the normal operation of the gift of faith to remove mountains? No.
Is it the normal operation of the gift of giving to give absolutely everything I own to the poor, or even give up my own life? No.
Neither is it the normal operation of the gift of tongues to speak in the language of angels.

 

[1stcenturylady]

No one spoke in the tongues of angels. That was Paul speaking hypothetically to make the point that even if someone had the gift of tongues to such a superlative degree it would be nothing without love.

Wrong. Paul didn't lie and use the tongues of angels if it didn't exist. Have you ever read the rule about tongues? Don't you know that tongues are TO God, because NO MAN UNDERSTANDS THEM? Read 1 Corinthians 14:2.

The Holy Spirit can use a common language from another country, but no one present understands it; He can create a language on the spot like at the tower of Babel; He can use the language of angels; He can even use an ancient language that is now extinct. The point is God understands them all. The only way man understands tongues is through the supernatural gift of interpretation of tongues. That is what happened on the Day of Pentecost, though many misread the account and come up with the false teaching that tongues is for preaching, so now is not needed. Human reasoning will cause so much unbelief, it stinks.

 

[swordsman1]

Wrong. Paul didn't lie and use the tongues of angels if it didn't exist. Have you ever read the rule about tongues? Don't you know that tongues are TO God, because NO MAN UNDERSTANDS THEM? Read 1 Corinthians 14:2.

The Holy Spirit can use a common language from another country, but no one present understands it; He can create a language on the spot like at the tower of Babel; He can use the language of angels; He can even use an ancient language that is now extinct. The point is God understands them all. The only way man understands tongues is through the supernatural gift of interpretation of tongues. That is what happened on the Day of Pentecost, though many misread the account and come up with the false teaching that tongues is for preaching, so now is not needed. Human reasoning will cause so much unbelief, it stinks.

But the only description in scripture of the gift of tongues is Acts 2:4-11. Foreign human languages. Nowhere is it redefined as being something else.

You need to be careful not to take 1 Cor 14:2 out of context. The context of the whole of chapter 14 is church meetings (v4,5,12,19,23,26,28,30,32,34). And the specific problem that Paul was dealing with throughout this chapter was the problem that some people in the Corinthian congregation were speaking in a language that no one else recognized. That doesn't mean it was a non-human language. If someone was speaking Persian in a small Greek congregation then it is no surprise that no one understood. What was spoken was a mystery to them. Only God, who understands all languages, understood what was said. So Paul begins the chapter by highlighting the problem: "the one who speaks in an (unrecognized) tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one (in the congregation) understands him".

 

[PollyJetix]

That's correct, there are 5 hyperbolic parallel statements giving examples of each of those gifts to the highest degree imaginable:

If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels...
If I have the gift of prophecy and know all mysteries and all knowledge...
If I have all faith, so as to remove mountains...
If I give all my possessions to feed the poor...
if I surrender my body to be burned ...
... but do not have love, it profits me nothing.

Is it the normal operation of the gift of prophecy to know all mysteries and all knowledge ie become omniscient? No.
Is it the normal operation of the gift of faith to remove mountains? No.
Is it the normal operation of the gift of giving to give absolutely everything I own to the poor, or even give up my own life? No.
Neither is it the normal operation of the gift of tongues to speak in the language of angels.

Yet, it is possible to supernaturally know mysteries and knowledge that only God can know.
and it is possible, by the gift of faith, to remove mountains. Jesus said so.
And it is possible--was even commanded by Jesus, to one--to give EVERYTHING to the poor, to follow Him.
And many of my ancestors paid the ultimate price, gladly, in the Reformation, being burned at the stake.

You are arguing it is impossible that the gift of tongues could include those of angels.
But then, you switch from possibilities, to probabilities.
You can't use "normal operations" to prove an impossibility.
Stick with possibilities.

Paul was talking about the superlative exercise of the gifts.
Not "normal operations."

 

[PollyJetix]

But the only description in scripture of the gift of tongues is Acts 2:4-11. Foreign human languages. Nowhere is it redefined as being something else.

You need to be careful not to take 1 Cor 14:2 out of context. The context of the whole of chapter 14 is church meetings (v4,5,12,19,23,26,28,30,32,34). And the specific problem that Paul was dealing with throughout this chapter was the problem that some people in the Corinthian congregation were speaking in a language that no one else recognized. That doesn't mean it was a non-human language. If someone was speaking Persian in a small Greek congregation then it is no surprise that no one understood. What was spoken was a mystery to them. Only God, who understands all languages, understood what was said. So Paul begins the chapter by highlighting the problem: "the one who speaks in an (unrecognized) tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one (in the congregation) understands him".

This is an explanation that does not fit with the context of the book.
the first part of the book, Paul dealt with carnality and sins within the Corinthian church. Then, he switches gears at the beginning of chapter 12. "NOW, concerning spiritual gifts..."
Chapters 12-14 are about spiritual gifts in operation.
Not about people talking natural languages, without using a translator. That would have belonged in the first part of the book.
Your explanation exists only to explain away the supernatural.

 

[swordsman1]

Yet, it is possible to supernaturally know mysteries and knowledge that only God can know.

That's not what it says though. It says to have the gift of prophecy to the extent of knowing ALL mysteries and ALL knowledge. ie to become omniscient. Is that the normal operation of the gift?

and it is possible, by the gift of faith, to remove mountains. Jesus said so.

But that is not the normal operation of the gift of faith. Has anybody, ever, removed a mountain?

And it is possible--was even commanded by Jesus, to one--to give EVERYTHING to the poor, to follow Him.

It is normal to give away absolutely everything you own, including all your clothes?

And many of my ancestors paid the ultimate price, gladly, in the Reformation, being burned at the stake.

But it is not the normal operation of the gift is it.

Therefore you cannot say it is the normal operation of the gift of tongues to speak in the language of angels. It was a extreme hypothetical example to make the point that even having gifts to the highest degree imaginable is worthless without love.

Paul was talking about the superlative exercise of the gifts.
Not "normal operations."

That's right. But people today say it is the normal operation. Today's tongues is clearly not foreign human languages, so they say what they speak is the language of angels.

 

[PollyJetix]

...But people today say it is the normal operation. Today's tongues is clearly not foreign human languages, so they say what they speak is the language of angels.

I am a Pentecostal, and I have never heard that explanation, that all the tongues we speak, are tongues of angels.
They are probably real languages, but it doesn't matter whether they are or not.
They are miraculously produced, and they are directed to God, not to man.
Now, if God, who knows all languages, understands, what does it matter if they are pre-existing languages, or if they are a new language God made for just this person, on this occasion?

There is no way, by listening to one speaking, in a tongue which you do not understand, to know whether or not their speech is actually a language of earth.
Even if they aren't Christians. Even if they aren't Pentecostals.

Linguists will tell you it is impossible to tell if a bunch of sounds are a language or not.
Because a few sounds repeated over and over could only be a few words repeated over and over. There is no way to tell if it is actually a language spoken now or in the past, here on earth.

And, as I said before, it doesn't matter.
Because it's not man that we are talking to.

 

[swordsman1]

This is an explanation that does not fit with the context of the book.
the first part of the book, Paul dealt with carnality and sins within the Corinthian church. Then, he switches gears at the beginning of chapter 12. "NOW, concerning spiritual gifts..."
Chapters 12-14 are about spiritual gifts in operation.
Not about people talking natural languages, without using a translator. That would have belonged in the first part of the book.
Your explanation exists only to explain away the supernatural.

That's right. Chapter 12-14 is all about spiritual gifts. And in Chapter 14 it is about the misuse of the gift of tongues (speaking in a foreign language you have not previously learned). But nobody in the congregation understood the language, thus it was not benefiting others as spiritual gifts ought.

 

[1stcenturylady]

But the only description in scripture of the gift of tongues is Acts 2:4-11. Foreign human languages. Nowhere is it redefined as being something else.

You need to be careful not to take 1 Cor 14:2 out of context. The context of the whole of chapter 14 is church meetings (v4,5,12,19,23,26,28,30,32,34). And the specific problem that Paul was dealing with throughout this chapter was the problem that some people in the Corinthian congregation were speaking in a language that no one else recognized. That doesn't mean it was a non-human language. If someone was speaking Persian in a small Greek congregation then it is no surprise that no one understood. What was spoken was a mystery to them. Only God, who understands all languages, understood what was said. So Paul begins the chapter by highlighting the problem: "the one who speaks in an (unrecognized) tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one (in the congregation) understands him".

No the whole context of 1 Corinthians 14 is the difference between speaking in tongues alone as a prayer language to God, and the gift of diverse kinds of tongues that must be accompanied by the supernatural gift of interpretation of tongues, which is prophecy. We mustn't use our prayer language to God to be so loud with everyone speaking at once that you cannot even hear the Words from God in the teachings. There must be order, order, order! God is not a God of confusion.

Acts 2 was written 20 years AFTER 1 Corinthians and must be interpreted in light of 1 Corinthians, not the other way around. The Church already knew the gifts of the Spirit, and the events in Acts were history. Without the background, you won't fully comprehend the story.

 

[swordsman1]

I am a Pentecostal, and I have never heard that explanation, that all the tongues we speak, are tongues of angels.
They are probably real languages, but it doesn't matter whether they are or not.

The tongues you speak are foreign human languages?

Now, if God, who knows all languages, understands, what does it matter if they are pre-existing languages, or if they are a new language God made for just this person, on this occasion?

Because there is no mention of such a thing in scripture. The only definition is miraculously speaking foreign human languages.

There is no way, by listening to one speaking, in a tongue which you do not understand, to know whether or not their speech is actually a language of earth.
Even if they aren't Christians. Even if they aren't Pentecostals.

Linguists will tell you it is impossible to tell if a bunch of sounds are a language or not.
Because a few sounds repeated over and over could only be a few words repeated over and over. There is no way to tell if it is actually a language spoken now or in the past, here on earth.

Linguists have fully studied modern glossolalia. Their conclusion it is not a language at all. The most famous study was by Dr. William Samarin, Professor of Linguistics at the University of Toronto. Here are his conclusions.

"There is no mystery about glossolalia. Tape recorded samples are easy to obtain and to analyze. They always turn out to be the same things: strings of syllables made up of sounds taken from among all those that the speaker knows, put together more or less haphazardly but which nevertheless emerge as word-like or sentence-like units”

"The speaker controls the rhythm, volume, speed and inflection of his speech so that the sounds emerge as pseudo- language -- in the form of words and sentences. Glossolalia is language-like because the speaker unconsciously wants it to be language-like. Yet in spite of superficial similarities, glossolalia fundamentally is not language.”

"All specimens of glossolalia that have ever been studied have produced no features that would even suggest that they reflect some kind of communicative system.”

"When the full apparatus of linguistic Science comes to bear on glossolalia, this turns out to be only a facade language-although at times a very good one indeed. For when we comprehend what language is, we must conclude that no glossa, no matter how well constructed, is a specimen of human language, because it is neither internally organized nor systematically related to the world man perceives."

"Unintelligible post-babbling speech that exhibits superficial phonological similarity to language without having consistent syntagmatic structure and that is not systematically derived from or related to known languages."

It is "a meaningless but phonetically structured human utterance believed by the speaker to be a real language but bearing no systematic resemblance to any natural language, living or dead."

“And it has already been established that no special power needs to take over a person's vocal organs; all of us are equipped with everything we need to produce glossolalia”

"Glossolalia is not a supernatural phenomenon....It is similar to many other kinds of speech humans produce in more or less normal circumstances, in more or less normal psychological states. In fact, anybody can produce glossolalia if he is uninhibited and if he discovers what the "trick" is"​

 

[swordsman1]

No the whole context of 1 Corinthians 14 is the difference between speaking in tongues alone as a prayer language to God, and the gift of diverse kinds of tongues that must be accompanied by the supernatural gift of interpretation of tongues, which is prophecy.

There is no mention of speaking in tongues alone. That would be a misuse of a spiritual gift which are only for the benefit of others (1 Cor 12:7, 1 Peter 4:10). Nor is there any mention of it being "a prayer language".

We mustn't use our prayer language to God to be so loud with everyone speaking at once that you cannot even hear the Words from God in the teachings.

There was to be no more than one person speaking in tongues at any one time, and it must be interpreted. If there was no interpreter present (to edify the congregation), the tongues speaker was to remain silent.

Acts 2 was written 20 years AFTER 1 Corinthians and must be interpreted in light of 1 Corinthians, not the other way around.

That is not in the hermeneutical rule book. The principle is you interpret obscure passages in the light of clearer ones. So 1 Cor 14 must be interpreted in the light of Acts 2:4-11.

 

[PollyJetix]

... But people today say it is the normal operation. Today's tongues is clearly not foreign human languages, so they say what they speak is the language of angels.

May I tell you how the gift of tongues operates through me?

When I received the baptism of the Holy Ghost, I felt a tremendous power, like nothing I had ever known before. This unseen power began to move my physical body back and forth. Now, I could have resisted it, and stopped it, if I had chosen to. But I chose to yield, because I knew this was not evil. I had known God for many years. I knew the Bible. And I knew this was God, and I knew it was biblical.

I also knew that Jesus promised a true child of God may ask, and will receive, the genuine Holy Ghost. It is impossible for a child of God to ask the Father for the Holy Spirit, and then to receive a serpent from the Devil! Luke 11:12-13

so, I yielded to the power of God. He took all the power out of my physical body, to stand in His presence. I fell and yielded to the Holy Spirit, and spoke in a full language I had never known, for 2 hours. It felt like water rushing through my soul. When the torrent ceased, I felt so clean. So peaceful. So in unity with God. So loved.

The language? It sounded a lot like Italian. It had sentences, expression, emotion, inflection. All that a language contains.

Since then, God has given me the gift of various kinds of tongues. It flows when I am in intercession.
When I go into prayer, I will pray in English (with the understanding) until I feel the urge to allow the Spirit to take over my tongue (also with the Spirit). And what comes out is not of my own volition. I hear myself making sounds I never think up. And I hear a "kind" of language... it usually starts out in something related to Italian, like I first spoke in. But then, I feel the burden to pray for another person or situation, and I will pray in English all I know to pray. And then, again, the Holy Spirit will take over, but this time, I will hear a completely different type of language coming out. I have spoken in probably 10 or more different kinds of tongues. Oriental, African, German-type, Spanish-sounding, and others I have no way to categorize.

All of this is without my choosing which sounds my tongue will form. I hear myself saying a few words I recognize, such as Hallelujah, or Yeshua, or Elohim. But I don't know what I'm saying.

All I know is that as I speak in tongues, the power of God rests heavier and heavier on me, until sometimes it takes my breath away, like I am in the very holy of holies.

God has given me the gift of interpretation, but I have done it only one time. As He willed. Not as I chose.

It's not about me. It's about the power of God.

I once was on the way home from work, and the Spirit fell on me, and I had a split-second vision of three vehicles high overhead, on a mountain road, with a guardrail. The place I was standing in the vision was at the bottom of a very steep incline, and it was a dense mature pine forest. Very unusual setting... I knew to pray for the people in the center vehicle, a white pickup truck.
I heard myself shouting desperately in tongues, praying for those people in the white pickup. I didn't know who they were, or what was happening. Then the burden lifted.

I got home, showered, and barely got to Bible study in time. But there was a big disturbance. Pastor and my close friend, Juanita, were leaving... her brother had been in an accident. At the end of Bible Study, they returned. Her brother, whom I did not know, had narrowly missed death. There had been a 3-vehicle accident on a winding mountain road on which I had never been. His white pickup had gone head-first down into the woods, off the road. But he missed all the big trees, and hit only saplings, which slowed his descent. His wife and he walked away with only seatbelt burns.

A few days later, I was riding with my Pastor and his wife, to go visit another church. And they took this mountain road where I had never been on before. We came to a spot I recognized! It was precisely the spot I had seen in my vision! the mature pine forest, on a very steep incline--at least a 60 degree incline. And there was the guardrail--exactly as I had seen it in the vision. I began crying out that this was the spot I had seen.
But that was not where the accident had happened.

The accident happened actually about 1/2 mile further on. there was no guard rail there. And the forest was mainly young, deciduous trees, with a few very large ones. There was a fence the pickup had broken through. And the incline was only about 35 to 40 degrees.

This puzzled me for months. I asked the Lord why He had shown me a place where it didn't happen.
His answer was very clear: the accident would have happened at the place I saw in the vision, if I had not prayed. He would have flipped over the guard rail, and down that cliff to his death. God wanted the accident to only wake this man up spiritually. Not take his life. The enemy wanted his life.
But God dropped it onto me, to pray... in tongues.
It saved the life of my best friend's brother.

 

[PollyJetix]

There are medical studies that prove several things about tongues.
#1. There is an area of the brain used to create speech. This point lights up when people who are NOT Pentecostals pretend to speak in tongues. But when a Pentecostal prays in tongues, that place goes completely quiet.
#2. There is another part of the brain, in the left caudate, which scientists have never discovered the function. But this area lights up with activity when genuine Pentecostals pray in tongues. And the effect is dramatic, on several levels. The endorphin rush is very high, and the immune system cranks up 35 to 40% higher than usual.

 

[1stcenturylady]

There is no mention of speaking in tongues alone. That would be a misuse of a spiritual gift which are only for the benefit of others (1 Cor 12:7, 1 Peter 4:10). Nor is there any mention of it being "a prayer language".



There was to be no more than one person speaking in tongues at any one time, and it must be interpreted. If there was no interpreter present (to edify the congregation), the tongues speaker was to remain silent.




That is not in the hermeneutical rule book. The principle is you interpret obscure passages in the light of clearer ones. So 1 Cor 14 must be interpreted in the light of Acts 2:4-11.

You are misunderstanding parts of 1 Corinthians 14.

Paul said, "I thank my God I speak with tongues more than you all; 19 yet in the church I would rather speak five words with my understanding, that I may teach others also, than ten thousand words in a tongue."

Paul prayed in tongues ALONE all the time. He also sang in tongues alone. But in church there must be the understanding provided by the supernatural gift of interpretation of tongues. Therefore,

I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding." The context of this chapter is the difference between our praying and praising with the Spirit, and the similar gift requiring the understanding of interpretation.

The sign gifts are for our own edification and done alone. The gifts of 1 Cor. 12 are the ones for the profit of all. You've got them all lumped together.

I will be happy to teach you, as I am a teacher about the sign and gift of tongues and the differences. But ONLY if you are open to them and want to learn. I'm not going to engage in foolish arguments over something so clear in scripture, but is only clear through the Spirit, not to mockers who believe it is all just foolishness. 1 Cor. 2. The choice is yours. I don't know where you are spiritually, just laying my cards on the table.

 

[swordsman1]

May I tell you how the gift of tongues operates through me?

When I received the baptism of the Holy Ghost, I felt a tremendous power, like nothing I had ever known before. This unseen power began to move my physical body back and forth. Now, I could have resisted it, and stopped it, if I had chosen to. But I chose to yield, because I knew this was not evil. I had known God for many years. I knew the Bible. And I knew this was God, and I knew it was biblical.

I also knew that Jesus promised a true child of God may ask, and will receive, the genuine Holy Ghost. It is impossible for a child of God to ask the Father for the Holy Spirit, and then to receive a serpent from the Devil! Luke 11:12-13

so, I yielded to the power of God. He took all the power out of my physical body, to stand in His presence. I fell and yielded to the Holy Spirit, and spoke in a full language I had never known, for 2 hours. It felt like water rushing through my soul. When the torrent ceased, I felt so clean. So peaceful. So in unity with God. So loved.

The language? It sounded a lot like Italian. It had sentences, expression, emotion, inflection. All that a language contains.

Since then, God has given me the gift of various kinds of tongues. It flows when I am in intercession.
When I go into prayer, I will pray in English (with the understanding) until I feel the urge to allow the Spirit to take over my tongue (also with the Spirit). And what comes out is not of my own volition. I hear myself making sounds I never think up. And I hear a "kind" of language... it usually starts out in something related to Italian, like I first spoke in. But then, I feel the burden to pray for another person or situation, and I will pray in English all I know to pray. And then, again, the Holy Spirit will take over, but this time, I will hear a completely different type of language coming out. I have spoken in probably 10 or more different kinds of tongues. Oriental, African, German-type, Spanish-sounding, and others I have no way to categorize.

All of this is without my choosing which sounds my tongue will form. I hear myself saying a few words I recognize, such as Hallelujah, or Yeshua, or Elohim. But I don't know what I'm saying.

All I know is that as I speak in tongues, the power of God rests heavier and heavier on me, until sometimes it takes my breath away, like I am in the very holy of holies.

God has given me the gift of interpretation, but I have done it only one time. As He willed. Not as I chose.

It's not about me. It's about the power of God.

I once was on the way home from work, and the Spirit fell on me, and I had a split-second vision of three vehicles high overhead, on a mountain road, with a guardrail. The place I was standing in the vision was at the bottom of a very steep incline, and it was a dense mature pine forest. Very unusual setting... I knew to pray for the people in the center vehicle, a white pickup truck.
I heard myself shouting desperately in tongues, praying for those people in the white pickup. I didn't know who they were, or what was happening. Then the burden lifted.

I got home, showered, and barely got to Bible study in time. But there was a big disturbance. Pastor and my close friend, Juanita, were leaving... her brother had been in an accident. At the end of Bible Study, they returned. Her brother, whom I did not know, had narrowly missed death. There had been a 3-vehicle accident on a winding mountain road on which I had never been. His white pickup had gone head-first down into the woods, off the road. But he missed all the big trees, and hit only saplings, which slowed his descent. His wife and he walked away with only seatbelt burns.

A few days later, I was riding with my Pastor and his wife, to go visit another church. And they took this mountain road where I had never been on before. We came to a spot I recognized! It was precisely the spot I had seen in my vision! the mature pine forest, on a very steep incline--at least a 60 degree incline. And there was the guardrail--exactly as I had seen it in the vision. I began crying out that this was the spot I had seen.
But that was not where the accident had happened.

The accident happened actually about 1/2 mile further on. there was no guard rail there. And the forest was mainly young, deciduous trees, with a few very large ones. There was a fence the pickup had broken through. And the incline was only about 35 to 40 degrees.

This puzzled me for months. I asked the Lord why He had shown me a place where it didn't happen.
His answer was very clear: the accident would have happened at the place I saw in the vision, if I had not prayed. He would have flipped over the guard rail, and down that cliff to his death. God wanted the accident to only wake this man up spiritually. Not take his life. The enemy wanted his life.
But God dropped it onto me, to pray... in tongues.
It saved the life of my best friend's brother.

That's a great story. But much of it is unbiblical.

 

[swordsman1]

There are medical studies that prove several things about tongues.
#1. There is an area of the brain used to create speech. This point lights up when people who are NOT Pentecostals pretend to speak in tongues. But when a Pentecostal prays in tongues, that place goes completely quiet.

Yes, it is possible for the mind to become detached from your speech organs which then goes into autopilot and does it own thing. Linguists call it glossolalia. Anyone can discover the technique, even non-Christians. Did you read the conclusions from the academic studies I posted?

And the effect is dramatic, on several levels. The endorphin rush is very high, and the immune system cranks up 35 to 40% higher than usual.

I am not surprised, if people are told that it is God operating through them and enabling them to speak a supernatural heavenly language. I imagine people would find that very exciting (even though it is unbiblical).

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I agree. I read somewhere that John Calvin was the only one back then that did not believe in the Gifts of the Spirit. The others, like Martin Luther did. Don't know about Arminius or John Knox. Do you know?

Calvin agreed that the gifts had declined, but was not overtly cessationist. He never committed himself to a particular reason. I don't know about Arminius. I know that John Knox believed in the gift of prophecy, because he and his followers practiced the gift and their prophecies came to pass.