Speaking in Tongues

[keeptrying]

We all know it is a spritural gift and it is real because the bible tells of this gift. I am curious to know what Lutherans personally think of this gift. Why do we not see much of this gift today in the church? or do we? To any that reply please identify your synod if you don't mind. Thank-you

added thought, my observation: I have heard of people having this gift but I never hear of anyone who says they have or know of anyone who has the gift of interpretation. If there are those speaking in tongues (other then another language) where are the interpreters?

 

[C.F.W. Walther]

There is no disclaimer in the LCMS about the gifts of the spirit. THey are recognized is edifying to the church and each person receives according to his need and all gifts are givern to the church. Our emphasis is not on the gifts edifying the person just the same as God's grace is about Him and not us. All the gifts do not make us better than each other or more spiritual or holy or blessed or whatever. The supposedly more prominent gifts were evident in the Bible when they were needed for spectacular results (mass conversions or miraculous examples).

In God’s eyes the different gifts themselves are not what is important. Rather, he looks for our response to him in our works and vocations. As Luther says, “Therefore it is his will that we also have regard for his command and vocation.”​

Luther goes on to say:​

"So St. Paul writes in Romans 12 and 1 Corinthians 12: The body has many members, but not all members have the same work. So we are many members of one Christian congregation, but not all of us have the same work. Everyone ought to look after his own work, and not that of another; so we should live together in simple obedience, in a harmony of many missions and manifold works."




​

 

[keeptrying]

THey are recognized is edifying to the church and each person receives according to his need and all gifts are givern to the church. Our emphasis is not on the gifts edifying the person just the same as God's grace is about Him and not us.

Paul writes in 1 Cor. 14:4 " He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself....
The gift of tongues therefore must also be able to edify the person and the church.

Are you saying the gift of speaking in tongues is no longer a gift given by God in our day? Then how do we explain the churches that acknowledge this as being a gift present in their church? are they lying? misguided?

I try not to complicate things but I think you are simplifying something that you find difficult to explain.

 

[C.F.W. Walther]

Paul writes in 1 Cor. 14:4 " He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself....
The gift of tongues therefore must also be able to edify the person and the church.

Are you saying the gift of speaking in tongues is no longer a gift given by God in our day? Then how do we explain the churches that acknowledge this as being a gift present in their church? are they lying? misguided?

I try not to complicate things but I think you are simplifying something that you find difficult to explain.

I didn't say gifts weren't for our day. I said they were for unusual circumstances. For instance when there are unbelievers present thats when tongues were used. Read all of I Corithinas 14 and don't take things out of context. Paul says that he would rather say 5 words of instruction that 10,000 words of tongues in the church. Jesus also said that the Jews needed sign and wonders so that they would believe and that's why I think they were more prevalent in apostolic times than now.



I Corinthians 14:22-25

22Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers; prophecy, however, is for believers, not for unbelievers. 23So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and some who do not understand[g] or some unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind? 24But if an unbeliever or someone who does not understand[h]comes in while everybody is prophesying, he will be convinced by all that he is a sinner and will be judged by all, 25and the secrets of his heart will be laid bare. So he will fall down and worship God, exclaiming, "God is really among you!"

 

[LilLamb219]

Then how do we explain the churches that acknowledge this as being a gift present in their church? are they lying? misguided?

There are a great many modern day churches who falsely claim that you aren't a Christian unless you speak in tongues. Thus, their members fake it so that they fit in. There are some who don't even realize they're faking it, to tell you the truth. They get so completely caught up in the emotional moment that they believe they can actually speak in tongues...and produce a bunch of gobbledy goo. It's not what scripture meant by speaking in tongues.

 

[FLA2760]

There are a great many modern day churches who falsely claim that you aren't a Christian unless you speak in tongues. Thus, their members fake it so that they fit in. There are some who don't even realize they're faking it, to tell you the truth. They get so completely caught up in the emotional moment that they believe they can actually speak in tongues...and produce a bunch of gobbledy goo. It's not what scripture meant by speaking in tongues.

Amen LilLamb
We are saved by grace through faith in Christ's death on the cross His burial and His resurrection. .

 

[Flatscan82]

Amen LilLamb
We are saved by grace through faith in Christ's death on the cross His burial and His resurrection. .

what does that have to do with speaking in tounges?

 

[LilLamb219]

The comment was a reply to my posting when I said that some churches say you're saved if you speak in tongues. But salvation, as we know, doesn't mean that since we look to the cross for salvation and KNOW we're saved...not ourselves and what we can do or don't do.

 

[Gospellightofmine]

*My synod - WELS

Speaking in tongues - as mentioned during Pentecost ... The people must have been thrilled to hear God's Word preached in their native language.
I suppose we think, quite simply, - God tells us to look at teachings. If it's not of the Bible, it's wrong. A pastor told me once "Unbiblical teaching cannot be validated by claims of miracles or special gifts. See Deuteronomy 13:1-3" "Where the teachings do not agree with Scripture on things like the sacraments, fellowship, and the way of salvation, we know the tongues are not signs from God, and we are to seek the truth elsewhere."

What I don't understand is that all of today's "tongue speaking" seems to be unknown languages... if languages at all ... rather than what happened on Pentecost... Which for me, leads me to doubt the reality of what is claimed .... I've seen somewhere a videotape of someone speaking in modern day tongue ... It was interpreted by 4 different people, 4 different ways ....

 

[DaRev]

*My synod - WELS

Speaking in tongues - as mentioned during Pentecost ... The people must have been thrilled to hear God's Word preached in their native language.
I suppose we think, quite simply, - God tells us to look at teachings. If it's not of the Bible, it's wrong. A pastor told me once "Unbiblical teaching cannot be validated by claims of miracles or special gifts. See Deuteronomy 13:1-3" "Where the teachings do not agree with Scripture on things like the sacraments, fellowship, and the way of salvation, we know the tongues are not signs from God, and we are to seek the truth elsewhere."

What I don't understand is that all of today's "tongue speaking" seems to be unknown languages... if languages at all ... rather than what happened on Pentecost... Which for me, leads me to doubt the reality of what is claimed .... I've seen somewhere a videotape of someone speaking in modern day tongue ... It was interpreted by 4 different people, 4 different ways ....

The gift of tongues was used in earlier times as the means to spread the Gospel. This is exactly the reason for the manifiestation of this gift on the day of Pentecost. Today, the Gospel is printed and preached in practically every language in the world, so the gift of tongues is less prevalent today.

 

[LilLamb219]

I've seen somewhere a videotape of someone speaking in modern day tongue ... It was interpreted by 4 different people, 4 different ways ....

Did any of those interpretations lead to Christ, I wonder?

 

[ContraMundum]

There is no disclaimer in the LCMS about the gifts of the spirit.

I didn't realise that. Almost every LCMS document I have seen on the topic is staunchly cessasionist. While there may be no claims against certain charismata, there certainly is a lot of teaching around against them.

In particular, I think Prof. Judisch's famous essay "An Evaluation on the Claims to the Charismatic Gifts" has been well received by the LCMS in general. Also, if I recall the CTCR has addressed this a number of times, but I can't recall them being pro-tongues. But then again, I haven't read any of those documents for years.

If you have more information on this, let me know. I'm interested in the debate on tongues.

 

[Jim47]

*My synod - WELS

Speaking in tongues - as mentioned during Pentecost ... The people must have been thrilled to hear God's Word preached in their native language.
I suppose we think, quite simply, - God tells us to look at teachings. If it's not of the Bible, it's wrong. A pastor told me once "Unbiblical teaching cannot be validated by claims of miracles or special gifts. See Deuteronomy 13:1-3" "Where the teachings do not agree with Scripture on things like the sacraments, fellowship, and the way of salvation, we know the tongues are not signs from God, and we are to seek the truth elsewhere."

What I don't understand is that all of today's "tongue speaking" seems to be unknown languages... if languages at all ... rather than what happened on Pentecost... Which for me, leads me to doubt the reality of what is claimed .... I've seen somewhere a videotape of someone speaking in modern day tongue ... It was interpreted by 4 different people, 4 different ways ....

Welcome to the forum. I agree with your statement about the people at Pentecost being thrilled to hear God's Word being preached in their own language. Just as we are thrilled today to hear God's Word and His offer of salvation. The strange part is that all the churches that hinge their worship and belief in this gift don't realize that their babbling isn't quite the same as these people heard. If you try to discuss this with them they become quite defensive. If I were given this gift I would never utter a word unless it was to people of another language that needed to hear God's plan of salvation. The real gift is not to speak in tongues, but to speak the gospil to ears that have never heard of Jesus.

Thanks for your post. I am WELS too. Welcome aboard.

 

[Gospellightofmine]

Welcome to the forum. I agree with your statement about the people at Pentecost being thrilled to hear God's Word being preached in their own language. Just as we are thrilled today to hear God's Word and His offer of salvation. The strange part is that all the churches that hinge their worship and belief in this gift don't realize that their babbling isn't quite the same as these people heard. If you try to discuss this with them they become quite defensive. If I were given this gift I would never utter a word unless it was to people of another language that needed to hear God's plan of salvation. The real gift is not to speak in tongues, but to speak the gospil to ears that have never heard of Jesus.

Thanks for your post. I am WELS too. Welcome aboard.

Very well said !!!!!

Thank you for the warm welcome

I'm out of Northern IL - Nice to see everyone and especially another WELS

 

[SPALATIN]

Very well said !!!!!

Thank you for the warm welcome

I'm out of Northern IL - Nice to see everyone and especially another WELS

Chicago area?

 

[LilLamb219]

Hey there, Gospellightofmine! You only live a couple hours away from me...uhh...with all the new construction, double that time

 

[C.F.W. Walther]

I didn't realise that. Almost every LCMS document I have seen on the topic is staunchly cessasionist. While there may be no claims against certain charismata, there certainly is a lot of teaching around against them.

In particular, I think Prof. Judisch's famous essay "An Evaluation on the Claims to the Charismatic Gifts" has been well received by the LCMS in general. Also, if I recall the CTCR has addressed this a number of times, but I can't recall them being pro-tongues. But then again, I haven't read any of those documents for years.

If you have more information on this, let me know. I'm interested in the debate on tongues.

Sorry 'bout that. I meant there were disclaimers in the LCMS about certain types of tongues especially the "nonsense" sounds that are found in some evangelical denoms. LCMS, like Luther, doesn't deny that tongues exist but only in the context of what the BIble says and not the claims of some reformed bodies.

To tell you the truth I don't see why it and phrophecy arn't more prevalent today. I know that in the apostalic church the Jews sought "signs and wonders" and more miracles happened but to be totally non-existent today is interesting.

I attended many A&G, CHarismatic and pentecoastal churches over the years and most everyone of these phenomenon were fake. WIth tongues the "alter" people would take you back stage after the service and basically make you talk gibberish and then tell you it was tongues. Made you feel that if you didn't have it that your faith was weak. Guys Like Benny Hinn, Jim Baker, Jack & Rexela Van Impe, Kenneth Copeland, Peter Popoff, etc,etc promoted this "schlock".

 

[paladin_carvin]

(I'm ECLA, but I don't see why this isn't in the general Lutheran area. Hope you guys don't mind)

When I got into college, I joined Chi Alpha (For those who don't know (probably most of you) this is supposedly non-denominational intercollege student ministry... which, in all honesty, is really the Pentecostal/Asb. O' God student ministry). When I got to college, I lost touch with my Lutheran roots and... well, basicly... you know the saying 'stand for something, or you will fall for anything?'. Yea... I fell for anything. After hearing a few lectures (sermons) about it, and being surrounded by people in prayer WHO WON'T SHUT UP (sorry, did I say that harshly... oops. It just always got on my nerves...) the idea got planted in my head. And one day, I was praying, and poof- there I went. I won't deny, it is a pretty thrilling experience, and and some times it seemed to be able to help me to focus on worship. But that really doesn't say it's a real spiritual gift. Anyway, a lot has happened since then, and I don't practice 'speaking in tongues' anymore, and if nothing else, I feel more sane because of it.

Hmm... I forgot what the point was I making... but anyway, that's my experience for ya.

 

[ContraMundum]

Sorry 'bout that. I meant there were disclaimers in the LCMS about certain types of tongues especially the "nonsense" sounds that are found in some evangelical denoms. LCMS, like Luther, doesn't deny that tongues exist but only in the context of what the BIble says and not the claims of some reformed bodies.

To tell you the truth I don't see why it and phrophecy arn't more prevalent today. I know that in the apostalic church the Jews sought "signs and wonders" and more miracles happened but to be totally non-existent today is interesting.

I attended many A&G, CHarismatic and pentecoastal churches over the years and most everyone of these phenomenon were fake. WIth tongues the "alter" people would take you back stage after the service and basically make you talk gibberish and then tell you it was tongues. Made you feel that if you didn't have it that your faith was weak. Guys Like Benny Hinn, Jim Baker, Jack & Rexela Van Impe, Kenneth Copeland, Peter Popoff, etc,etc promoted this "schlock".

 

[Ethan_Fetch]

I guess the problem I have is that so much of the signs and wonders phenomenon are common to pagan religious experience as well...

Nothing particularly Christian about it.