Speaking In Tongues

[christianrock1]

Hey,I've posted this in a couple of different places on these fourms,but i thought posting it here couldent hurt,because i grew up in a Baptist church-which said speaking in tounges isnt used anymore,but i've come to doubt and wanting to find out for my selfalmost everything they taught me,..so yeah

1Co 13:8 Charity never fails. But if there are prophecies, they will be abolished; if tongues, they shall cease; if knowledge, it will be abolished.
1Co 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
1Co 13:10 But when the perfect thing comes, then that which is in part will be caused to cease.
1Co 13:11 When I was an infant, I spoke as an infant, I thought as an infant, I reasoned as an infant. But when I became a man, I did away with the things of an infant.
1Co 13:12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall fully know even as I also am fully known.

Now they say that verse 10 is refering to when the Bible is complete,the gifts will go away,but that makes no sense to me,because then prophecies&knowlege would have to be abolished at the same time,which obviously hasnt happened yet.I read this thing that makes way more sense,that verse 10 is refering to the Second Coming of Christ after the rapture,because then we would have no need for speaking in toungs if Christ was right there,correct?

and help would be greatly appreciated,thanks


--rich

 

[scham]

Go for it mate, those people just use there head when reading scripture, if tounges werent for today why would God give it to the 120 in the upper room BEFORE the start of the early church. If it was ment for a select few then only the 12 would have got it not all plus those who the apostles visited all over the world (as they knew it),
It's not just for then, well done for finding this yourself and not letting people convince you otherwise.
Have you spoken in tounges yet? if not just ask God to fill you with his spirit afresh then just go for it, I just started to praise him and when I ran out of words then thats when I started to speak, you may find its only a few words to start but after a while it will grow.

 

[rural_preacher]

Even if all of the spiritual gifts are operational today, the gift of tongues is not for everyone...there is no gift that is intended for everyone.

I Corinthians 12, "27Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually. 28And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues. 29Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles? 30Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? 31But earnestly desire the best gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way."

The answer is understood to be "no". Not everyone is given every gift. This would mean that some speak in tongues but not all. So, if you decide that the gift of tongues is operational today, don't let anyone convince you that you must speak in tongues to have the baptism or filling of the Spirit. Tongues is not the necessary sign of the Spirit's work in your life. You can live a consistent, Spirit-filled life by walking in obedience to the Word of God, living out the Fruit of the Spirit and exercising the spiritual gifts that God has given you. If tongues isn't one of those gifts, that doesn't make you less spiritual than someone who has that gift. "But earnestly desire the best gifts."

Here is an excellent article that I encourage you to read. It may help you in your decision concerning this matter http://www.bible.org/page.asp?page_id=393.

I trust you are seeking out this matter with much prayer.

 

[TwinCrier]

Nor is speaking in tongues "evidence of being filled with the spirit" as many charasmatics claim. If you truly posses the gift of speaking in tongues, you are wasting it by sitting in church babbling to those who speak your language. You should be out witnessing to the world.
1 Corinthians 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

 

[ZiSunka]

Hey,I've posted this in a couple of different places on these fourms,but i thought posting it here couldent hurt,because i grew up in a Baptist church-which said speaking in tounges isnt used anymore,but i've come to doubt and wanting to find out for my selfalmost everything they taught me,..so yeah


Now they say that verse 10 is refering to when the Bible is complete,the gifts will go away,but that makes no sense to me,because then prophecies&knowlege would have to be abolished at the same time,which obviously hasnt happened yet.I read this thing that makes way more sense,that verse 10 is refering to the Second Coming of Christ after the rapture,because then we would have no need for speaking in toungs if Christ was right there,correct?

and help would be greatly appreciated,thanks


--rich

I have a lot of missionary friends around the world, and there IS still speaking in tongues, but it isn't at all like North Americans practice it. American Christians invent a personal babbling language, ususally even they can't repeat what they just said, which is how we can know it is babbling and not a real language.

But in other parts of the world where the gospel is growing, evangelists sometimes must go into areas where they don't speak the native language and depend on the Holy Spirit to help them deliver the message and reach the people.

One friend of mine went into an area of the old USSR where she didn't speak any of the language and none of the people spoke English or much Russian. She trusted the Spirit and began to speak on the steps of the townhall. Soon a small crowd formed, she thought it was because they were curious about this crazy lady who was babbling in public. After a while, though, she noticed people listening intently with grave looks on their faces. At the point where she called them to bow their heads to pray (in Russian), many of them bowed to pray. When she was finished, someone approached her and said (in English), "You speak our language so well! Where did you learn?" She answered, "Your language? I don't speak your language, but you speak English without even an accent!" The man said, "English! I don't speak a word of English!" Then they realized that they were each speaking their own native language, and the other one understood them perfectly in their own language. THAT is Biblical speaking in tongues.

 

[AJ]

I have a lot of missionary friends around the world, and there IS still speaking in tongues, but it isn't at all like North Americans practice it. American Christians invent a personal babbling language, ususally even they can't repeat what they just said, which is how we can know it is babbling and not a real language.

But in other parts of the world where the gospel is growing, evangelists sometimes must go into areas where they don't speak the native language and depend on the Holy Spirit to help them deliver the message and reach the people.

One friend of mine went into an area of the old USSR where she didn't speak any of the language and none of the people spoke English or much Russian. She trusted the Spirit and began to speak on the steps of the townhall. Soon a small crowd formed, she thought it was because they were curious about this crazy lady who was babbling in public. After a while, though, she noticed people listening intently with grave looks on their faces. At the point where she called them to bow their heads to pray (in Russian), many of them bowed to pray. When she was finished, someone approached her and said (in English), "You speak our language so well! Where did you learn?" She answered, "Your language? I don't speak your language, but you speak English without even an accent!" The man said, "English! I don't speak a word of English!" Then they realized that they were each speaking their own native language, and the other one understood them perfectly in their own language. THAT is Biblical speaking in tongues.

Now that is EXCITING!

 

[@@Paul@@]

Hey,I've posted this in a couple of different places on these fourms,but i thought posting it here couldent hurt,because i grew up in a Baptist church-which said speaking in tounges isnt used anymore,but i've come to doubt and wanting to find out for my selfalmost everything they taught me,..so yeah

Now they say that verse 10 is refering to when the Bible is complete,the gifts will go away,but that makes no sense to me,because then prophecies&knowlege would have to be abolished at the same time,which obviously hasnt happened yet.I read this thing that makes way more sense,that verse 10 is refering to the Second Coming of Christ after the rapture,because then we would have no need for speaking in toungs if Christ was right there,correct?

and help would be greatly appreciated,thanks

--rich

Hi Rich,

I'm one of those pessimistic folks who say the gifts of power are not for today. There are many reasons > I’d be happy to explain. HOWEVER; God can do whatever He want…. He can heal someone; there are no healers. He can give someone the gift of tongues as it suits His purpose in spreading His word > No one can do it on a whim (unless they took Spanish in college).

Now to your question.

1Co 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.​

It’s my understanding that the word PERFECT it in the neuter tense, meaning that Paul is referring to a thing (or maybe an event – I don’t know); but it’s not referring to a person.

1Co 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.​

One of the feasts given to Israel (see Lev. 23) was called the Day of Atonement (it’s sandwiched right in-between “harvest and trumpets” AND “Tabernacles”); this feast was also called ”face to face” >> and could be what Paul is referring to here in verse 12.

The entire context of 1 Cor 13 is about knowledge AND prophesying in PART… I personally feel by “perfect” Paul is describing the perfect way to prophesy, because knowledge will no longer be in part…

1Co 13:8-13 KJV
(8) Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
(9) For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.​

Paul said tongues would cease, prophecies would fail and knowledge would vanish away. END of story.

(10) But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
(11) When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
(12) For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.​

Verses 10-12 refer to (I think) the Day of Atonement when we stand face to face with our Savior and “know as we are known”. This refers to a time when knowledge and prophecy would be no longer in part. >> This is not the same statement as in verses 8-9 where Paul stated that prophecy would FAIL, knowledge would VANISH away and tongues would CEASE.

(13) And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.​

……now abides faith, hope and charity.

The Gift of Tongues was not only given as a SIGN to Israel > It was given as a way to gather the nation together. The gift was given at Pentecost > Pentecost was another one of the feasts given to Israel which is also called “feast of harvest” AND “feasts of weeks”… the feast of weeks was given to picture the GATHERING (reaping) of the nation prior to the Second Advent. However this nation has been scattered amongst the Jewish nations for some time!! i.e. most Jews didn’t speak their native tongue (most Jews today don’t speak Hebrew today – although I believe in Israel they are teaching it to the children)

Act 2:6-12 KJV
(6) Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
(7) And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
(8) And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?​

…you see, Jews of the dispersion (those born and living outside the land) spoke the language of the nation where they were born. They even called it “our language”.

(9) Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
(10) Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
(11) Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
(12) And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?​

…Pentecost was the beginning of the restoration of the nation of Israel, that nation could not be united IF they all spoke different languages. << now, It was according to prophesy that the nation be scattered amongst the gentiles and pick up “foreign tongues”. (See the whole of Isa 28)

Isa 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.​

Compare this to the event at the Tower of Babel. The gift of tongues was given there to scatter the people – to divide the nations. Tongues were given at Pentecost to reverse Babel by UNITING the nations.

That’s probably more than you wanted; but I’m a little bored today.

 

[rural_preacher]

One friend of mine went into an area of the old USSR where she didn't speak any of the language and none of the people spoke English or much Russian. She trusted the Spirit and began to speak on the steps of the townhall. Soon a small crowd formed, she thought it was because they were curious about this crazy lady who was babbling in public. After a while, though, she noticed people listening intently with grave looks on their faces. At the point where she called them to bow their heads to pray (in Russian), many of them bowed to pray. When she was finished, someone approached her and said (in English), "You speak our language so well! Where did you learn?" She answered, "Your language? I don't speak your language, but you speak English without even an accent!" The man said, "English! I don't speak a word of English!" Then they realized that they were each speaking their own native language, and the other one understood them perfectly in their own language. THAT is Biblical speaking in tongues.

 

[Iosias]

Hey,I've posted this in a couple of different places on these fourms,but i thought posting it here couldent hurt,because i grew up in a Baptist church-which said speaking in tounges isnt used anymore,but i've come to doubt and wanting to find out for my selfalmost everything they taught me,..so yeah


Now they say that verse 10 is refering to when the Bible is complete,the gifts will go away,but that makes no sense to me,because then prophecies&knowlege would have to be abolished at the same time,which obviously hasnt happened yet.I read this thing that makes way more sense,that verse 10 is refering to the Second Coming of Christ after the rapture,because then we would have no need for speaking in toungs if Christ was right there,correct?

and help would be greatly appreciated,thanks


--rich

1 Corinthians 13
8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

Read the above carefully Only that which is in part will cease with the comming of the perfect...tongues will have ceased before the comming of the perfect.

 

[christianrock1]

1 Corinthians 13
8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

Read the above carefully Only that which is in part will cease with the comming of the perfect...tongues will have ceased before the comming of the perfect.

Where does it say that? it says when the perfect is come,then that which in part shall be done away-meaning the 2nd coming of Christ

 

[Gold Dragon]

One friend of mine went into an area of the old USSR where she didn't speak any of the language and none of the people spoke English or much Russian. She trusted the Spirit and began to speak on the steps of the townhall. Soon a small crowd formed, she thought it was because they were curious about this crazy lady who was babbling in public. After a while, though, she noticed people listening intently with grave looks on their faces. At the point where she called them to bow their heads to pray (in Russian), many of them bowed to pray. When she was finished, someone approached her and said (in English), "You speak our language so well! Where did you learn?" She answered, "Your language? I don't speak your language, but you speak English without even an accent!" The man said, "English! I don't speak a word of English!" Then they realized that they were each speaking their own native language, and the other one understood them perfectly in their own language. THAT is Biblical speaking in tongues.

That is an awesome testimony!

 

[The Smiling One]

"One friend of mine went into an area of the old USSR where she didn't speak any of the language and none of the people spoke English or much Russian. She trusted the Spirit and began to speak on the steps of the townhall. Soon a small crowd formed, she thought it was because they were curious about this crazy lady who was babbling in public. After a while, though, she noticed people listening intently with grave looks on their faces. At the point where she called them to bow their heads to pray (in Russian), many of them bowed to pray. When she was finished, someone approached her and said (in English), "You speak our language so well! Where did you learn?" She answered, "Your language? I don't speak your language, but you speak English without even an accent!" The man said, "English! I don't speak a word of English!" Then they realized that they were each speaking their own native language, and the other one understood them perfectly in their own language. THAT is Biblical speaking in tongues."


That's correct! If you read about the actual day of Pentecost, you will find that when Peter went outside and started preaching and each person gathered there, heard him in their own language. It was used as a sign to the Jews. God has always tried to get the Jews to believe.

 

[BT]

Where does it say that? it says when the perfect is come,then that which in part shall be done away-meaning the 2nd coming of Christ

I was in on the last 3 cessation threads so I'm only going to touch on this part (for now ).

1. Remember we're talking about the Gift of Tongues, not an instance of tongues. You'll hear all kinds of stories about missionaries and such that start speaking different languages in different fields. You'll also hear tens more stories of missionaries who "trusted their gift of tongues" and made absolute fools of themselves (and the cause of Christ?) on the mission field. We do not "trust" in experiences, only the Word of God, but God is God and He can do whatever He wants. His word makes it quite clear that these sign gifts ended with the apostles. Does that mean that He would not/could not give some missionary the ability for a set purpose or audience? No it doesn't. However that's not the issue we're talking about. We're talking about those who claim to have the same sign gift that the Apostles (and those directly in contact with the Apostles, thereby receiving the sign gift through the Apostles) had.

2. For this quote. To interpret this as the second coming of Christ makes absolutely no sense, grammatically or hermeneutically. Christ is never referred to as an "it" (impersonal pronoun), He is a "he" a person. When "that" which is perfect is come is a clear foretelling of the closing of the canon (which was being written at the time). There is no allusion to the second coming at all in this verse. To interpret it as such breaks an important hermeneutic (interpretation) principle "Context must agree with the entire body of Scripture". That is how we determine the validity of an interpretation. In this case to interpret this verse alone against all the other verses concerning the rapture or the second coming (this is the context of the entire Bible for this example) reveals that the interpretation makes no sense (because it does not agree with the rest of the teaching on the end). To place it directly as it stands (in relation to the end of the sign gifts) is perfect sound and agrees with the interpretation that A) Sign Gifts served to authenticate the Apostles while there was no written Word, B) Sign gifts served a limited purpose, C) The sign gifts would be replaced with a far greater gift (The Bible).



That is where it says that...

 

[The Smiling One]

Yes, also, it wasn't gibberish that was not understood by anyone else. Also, it was a present language, not a dead language that no one used.

I went with a friend to a 'Bible' study and one of the people 'spoke in tongues'. I'm conversant with several languages. If I can't speak it, I do know what it is supposed to sound like. The person said after, that it was Etruscan. It may have been. It didn't sound like anything I've ever heard. Does anyone use Etruscan anymore in these present times?

The experience left me a little scared and I didn't want to repeat it.

 

[BT]

Yes and it wasn't an "angelic" language. It was "glossa" which is a natural "local" language. We get our word "glossary" from this word, a glossary is a list of definitions for words "local" to a specific book. When was the last time you saw a definition for apple pie in the glossary of an automobile manual?

And the "spirit groaneth" has nothing to do with what comes out of a human beings mouth. I actually had a fellow a few weeks back tell me, "So when I pray and start to growl, blabber, or burp. That's actually the Holy Spirit speaking out of me."

No I didn't swat him (close but not quite). I brought him to the verse and explained it to him.... but to think that in the first place.... ACK!!


and we could go on and on and on and on....

 

[ZiSunka]

Yes, also, it wasn't gibberish that was not understood by anyone else. Also, it was a present language, not a dead language that no one used.

I went with a friend to a 'Bible' study and one of the people 'spoke in tongues'. I'm conversant with several languages. If I can't speak it, I do know what it is supposed to sound like. The person said after, that it was Etruscan. It may have been. It didn't sound like anything I've ever heard. Does anyone use Etruscan anymore in these present times?

The experience left me a little scared and I didn't want to repeat it.

Etruscan! Well, I'm sure that person's input was very edifying to everyone at the Bible study that night. How could anyone think that speaking in etruscan would be useful or helpful or a work of the Spirit?

An old college friend is in linguistics and he said that for his masters degree, he studied so called speaking in tongues. He studied over 50 individuals over a two year period who claimed they could speak in tongues or speak a "heavenly language." He found that not one of them was speaking a real human language. He also found that none of them could repeat sentences or phrases from one session to another, and in most cases, they couldn't repeat what they had said within a minute of having said it. He said that even within each person's speaking in tongues, there was no sentence structure, no uniform vocabulary (words were completely different every time they were said or some sounds had different meanings depending on the time they were said), and no uniform pronounciation (a word might be pronouced one way one time and another way moments later). In the end, he likened the "heavenly speech" of the 50 people to the way children pretend to be speaking a foriegn language--it's merely wishful babbling.

 

[BT]

lambslove if you could get a copy of that paper I'd love to read it.

(not for "fuel", "ammunition".. the Bible contains all the truth that I need)

Since I'm in seminary... I have to read and write several papers and I think that would be an interesting study to read... if you can get it..

 

[ZiSunka]

lambslove if you could get a copy of that paper I'd love to read it.

(not for "fuel", "ammunition".. the Bible contains all the truth that I need)

Since I'm in seminary... I have to read and write several papers and I think that would be an interesting study to read... if you can get it..

I haven't heard from that friend in several years, but let me try to get in touch with him and see what I can do!

 

[BT]

That would be great but don't go to any trouble over it. Thanks!

 

[Redguard]

I believe in the modern day gift of speaking in tongues when it comes to being able to witness to others in several languages that they 'understand'.

But the more common "speaking in tongues" that a lot of people do today... where all they do is babble incoherently and nobody knows what they're saying... I'm not into that.