Speaking in Tongues as Foreign Language

[gilliger]

Why is the evidence from Acts perceived as secondary to Paul's explanation of tongues?

Luke presents speaking in tongues as actual foreign languages. Understanding that, should we not interpret Paul's statements in the same light?

 

[stormdancer0]

Paul speaks of two different happenings. When we are praying in the Spirit, we speak not to man but to God. Our voice is working, but our mind is inactive. They've even proven it with CAT scans and MRI's. When we are praying in the Spirit, the language area of our brain is not active.

It is a different than giving a message in tongues, which, when combined with an interpretation, is the equivalent of prophecy.

 

[Blueriver]

Because of this confusion of speaking in unknown tongues. The church is confused. One church does it one way another church does it another way, and there is alot of confusion. And the world thinks this is crazy. And God is not the auther of confusion. I do think is a worldly language. And I think the bible proves that. But I believe that praying in tongues and praying in the spirit are two different things.

 

[gilliger]

Paul speaks of two different happenings. When we are praying in the Spirit, we speak not to man but to God. Our voice is working, but our mind is inactive. They've even proven it with CAT scans and MRI's. When we are praying in the Spirit, the language area of our brain is not active.

It is a different than giving a message in tongues, which, when combined with an interpretation, is the equivalent of prophecy.

All the CAT scans and MRI's have proven is that those particular portions of the brain are inactive. It's the same for those in a trance or trance-like state. Paul is clear that the mind (understanding) is inactive, but just because the speaker doesn't understand what he is saying, does not automatically make it an "unknown" language. The word "unknown" never actually occurs in the New Testament alongside "tongues" anyway.

Also, I agree that the N.T. teaches translated tongues is equal to prophecy, but was not the purpose of the tongues generally, and specifically in Acts 2, to serve as a sign, not a message?

 

[stormdancer0]

Yes, in Acts 2, the purpose of the tongues was a sign - it got people's attention.

The MRI's I've seen are when someone is speaking in a known language, but one not learned by the speaker. I've heard this several times in my own church. My friend, who is our most powerful intercessor, speaks in several known languages without knowing them. She has spoken French, Hebrew, (both of which I understand a little), and she has also prophesied to a Ukrainian congregation, I believe in Ukrainian. I'd have to check - I wasn't there at the time. I've also heard someone speak in a tongue, and known beyond a doubt what they were saying, but not recognize the language. God just told me, "This is what they are saying - interpret." The one time I hesitated too long, someone else spoke up, and said word for word what I had gotten.

 

[gilliger]

Yes, in Acts 2, the purpose of the tongues was a sign - it got people's attention.

Why then are tongues today considered a prayer language if their only purpose was as a sign?

Also, I'd love to see the MRI's you're talking about. Is there a way I can access that information?

 

[Builder_Bob]

Why is the evidence from Acts perceived as secondary to Paul's explanation of tongues?

Luke presents speaking in tongues as actual foreign languages. Understanding that, should we not interpret Paul's statements in the same light?

In Acts 2, speaking in tongues was refered to a language in which we were born with, not any known language sence the tower of babbel. The tongue you were born with is not a learned language but that of a new born child. Acts 2:8
In Mark 15:17-18, Tongues is refered to as a sign to the believer of the infilling of the holy spirit, if not how would you know you without a daught had received the infilling of the holyspirit without the manifestation spoken of? Tongues is the proof or "sign" with all the other things listed in Mark 15:17-18.
Isaiah 28:11-12, stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. Notice what he says; another tongue! not one that already exsisted.

 

[Builder_Bob]

Yes, in Acts 2, the purpose of the tongues was a sign - it got people's attention.

The MRI's I've seen are when someone is speaking in a known language, but one not learned by the speaker. I've heard this several times in my own church. My friend, who is our most powerful intercessor, speaks in several known languages without knowing them. She has spoken French, Hebrew, (both of which I understand a little), and she has also prophesied to a Ukrainian congregation, I believe in Ukrainian. I'd have to check - I wasn't there at the time. I've also heard someone speak in a tongue, and known beyond a doubt what they were saying, but not recognize the language. God just told me, "This is what they are saying - interpret." The one time I hesitated too long, someone else spoke up, and said word for word what I had gotten.

What you witnessed is the gift of tongues when the holy spirit speaks a unlearned language such as hebrew french or Ukrainian known earthly languages but unlearned by the speaker.

 

[Cribstyl]

Why is the evidence from Acts perceived as secondary to Paul's explanation of tongues?
Luke presents speaking in tongues as actual foreign languages. Understanding that, should we not interpret Paul's statements in the same light?

Consider the fact that Paul was sent to teach doctrines to the church. We find the complete and doctrine about tongue in 1 Corinthians. Acts gives us the historical look at the annointing of the Holy Spirit that began on Pentecost. The narrative tells us what occured in the early church without explaining why and how.

We must default to 1Corinthians to learn and understand; A)There are diversities of tongues.......B) tongues of men and tongues of angels.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

LLOJ subscribes

 

[Cribstyl]

God uses men to teach other men without understanding the gospel, so the gift of tongues can be useful to men.

God uses angels to speak prophecies, change, conviction of sin to the church or individuals, so the gift of tongues is useful to for men to understand what the Spirit of God may say to the church.

Man is a spirit with a flesh and blood body for living on earth. The spiritual gifts were given to the church so that we can know the mind of the Spirit of God. No man can fully understand what the spirit can do.

We are filled to overflow and we're often overwhelmed because the spiritual has more power than the flesh can take in. The flesh seek it's own way through the mind. The spirit seeks it's way through the heart.

 

[lilmissmontana]

LLOJ subscribes

hey there! good to see you here!

Cribstyl! what a blessing to see your name here this morning! you are SSSOOO missed!

 

[lilmissmontana]

I have nothing to contribute ... I know gilliger's been here before and knows the rules, however, I saw another new face so wanted to remind should probably check out the rules ... things like no only fellowship and questions if you're not Pentecostal, etc ... God bless, everyone!

 

[Cribstyl]

hey there! good to see you here!

Cribstyl! what a blessing to see your name here this morning! you are SSSOOO missed!

Missed you guys too. (see you on the fellowship thread)

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

hey there! good to see you here!

Cribstyl! what a blessing to see your name here this morning! you are SSSOOO missed!

Thank you. Love your siggy pics!

 

[lilmissmontana]

Thank you. Love your siggy pics!

thank you! totally the Lord's doing ... when I wanted a siggie ... this is what came

 

[gilliger]

In Acts 2, speaking in tongues was refered to a language in which we were born with, not any known language sence the tower of babbel. The tongue you were born with is not a learned language but that of a new born child. Acts 2:8
In Mark 15:17-18, Tongues is refered to as a sign to the believer of the infilling of the holy spirit, if not how would you know you without a daught had received the infilling of the holyspirit without the manifestation spoken of? Tongues is the proof or "sign" with all the other things listed in Mark 15:17-18.
Isaiah 28:11-12, stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. Notice what he says; another tongue! not one that already exsisted.

I'm not sure I completely understand what you mean here about the tongues you are born with. (maybe i'm just tired

Also, in the context of Isaiah 28:11-12 it says, "foreign tongue." These are actual languages that did exist according to the context.

 

[gilliger]

Consider the fact that Paul was sent to teach doctrines to the church. We find the complete and doctrine about tongue in 1 Corinthians. Acts gives us the historical look at the annointing of the Holy Spirit that began on Pentecost. The narrative tells us what occured in the early church without explaining why and how.

We must default to 1Corinthians to learn and understand; A)There are diversities of tongues.......B) tongues of men and tongues of angels.

Right, Luke described historically what happened: namely, that a group of men who had never studied certain languages before, inspired by God, could speak perfectly coherent language. This is the same in the later stories in Acts too. There is no evidence from Luke that there were other types of tongues. It makes much more sense to look at Paul's words through that interpretation, rather than using his description (written to Christians who had asked questions that we don't have) to understand Luke's words.

Do you not believe Luke's account was inspired?

 

[Builder_Bob]

I'm not sure I completely understand what you mean here about the tongues you are born with. (maybe i'm just tired

Also, in the context of Isaiah 28:11-12 it says, "foreign tongue." These are actual languages that did exist according to the context.

A "foreign tongue" does not only mean (a known language but unknown to the speaker), but also it can mean unknown to all or, alien in character, strange or unfamiliar.

In Isaiah 28 also speaks of stammering lips and another tongue, the stammering lips together with another tongue explains the holy spirit prayer language pentecostals receive in the baptism of the spirit. You can't pick out a couple words of a verse and forget the rest of the verse to make a point of reference or interpratation. look up the word stammering: (to speak with involuntary breaks and pauses, or with spasmodic repetitions of syllables or sounds).

 

[Meet me at the cross]

I went to a small non-denominational church that Sunday across from Kailua Beach Park in Hawaii. The congregation only had about twenty people but each had that same joy I saw in Tony that evening. I felt uncomfortable but sat through the service and went back to my cubicle. All the next week I stayed high and thought about what I experienced the past Sunday. Saturday evening came and found me sitting in my cube drinking. Jim came by, one of Tony’s friends and another Marine that I met at the service a week prior. Jim invited me to church the next day and I told him I couldn’t go. I didn’t think I could get up that early considering the condition I was in at that moment. Jim told me that if I got up and went with him to church that we would go out for lunch and he would buy me a steak. I thought if he wants to spend his money on me I would go to church.

I didn’t know at the time that Tony and Jim told the congregation to pray because they were bringing a drug addict and dealer that just got out of jail to church. I walked into the church and saw a few people up front kneeling in prayer. I sat down in the back pew. I nervously looked around waiting for the service to start. A few people up front that were praying started to pray in another language. I wondered what I was doing here and what did I get myself into. I grabbed a bible that was sitting in the pew next to me. I laid it on my lap and the bible fell open to:

1 Corinthians 14:
Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy. For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. KJV

I felt a shiver run through me and than shame, I was ashamed of myself, that’s when the tears started to fall, I was crying for the first time in many years. I was unaware of what was going on around me, but the people in the church gathered around me and started to pray. I cried out to God for forgiveness. I don’t know how long I was there crying and asking for forgiveness, but when I got up I felt so clean and so empty of myself. I was forgiven, I was set free, but I didn’t know how free I was until later that day.