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Speaking in Tongues and Having The Ability to Interpret Them

Discussion in 'Spiritual Gifts' started by Lacrimosa1995, Jun 13, 2021.

  1. ARBITER01

    ARBITER01 Legend

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    If you remember a while back, a very similar thing tried to happen with old Todd Bentley, and that got shot down big time. In fact, it caused a major rift here on this site between those that wanted such a circus to happen, and the more biblically based group that started arguing against it. A lot of folks left this site because they were told they were wrong and got offended. I was quite surprised on how many were so quick to approve of such nonsense.

    Again, it has to emulate how Jesus did things. If we are going to go by the biblical example, then there is no one greater to follow. His example is to be our example, and really, I don't see The Holy Spirit teaching any other way.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2021
  2. Francis Drake

    Francis Drake Returning adventurer.

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    So because Todd Bentley got it wrong, everyone else is wrong?
    It seems your focus or experience of the gifts is always in your church setting, so maybe that's why you get uptight if its not under tight control. And putting a straight jacket on the Holy Spirit cannot be described as emulating Jesus.
    Maybe you should broaden your vision a little.

    In the 80s, knowing absolutely nothing about businesses, I had an apostolic call into industry. I was in uncharted waters and constantly condemned by local churches, even ones I financially supported. Other than the Lord, there was nowhere and no one to go to for advice.
    Over time I got thrown out or made persona non grata from five local churches. They told their members coming to me for jobs that I wasn't to be trusted.

    I ran several businesses concurrently, all based on prophetic vision.
    We employed local Christians and used the coffee and lunch breaks to encourage the saints in learning to hear the Lord speak to them. They saw how the Lord directed our path, but we were also learning daily. Sadly, I learned it was far easier to teach non Christians than Christians how to hear God speak!

    The business became a powerhouse of the Holy Spirit. A visitor even saw an angel over the buildings!
    There was no protocol to follow or learn from.
    If we made mistakes, they cost us dearly.

    At the very beginning, a major business CEO confronted me with the declaration that unless I abandoned my plans, he was going to bankrupt me. We were penniless, and he had multiple millions £ behind his threat.
    That threat gave us a tough night till I declared before God that we trusted him alone and refused to be frightened by the giants.
    The phone rang at 7 the following morning. A complete stranger phoned to say "Don't let the giants eat you up!"
    He then hung up!
    Living a prophetic lifestyle attracts the strangest things!

    A few years later the same man sued me over a spurious patent litigation, the case going on for many years as he tried to bankrupt me. He lost, but it was an exhausting spiritual war.
    That was just one spiritual battle among many as the Lord trained me.

    I designed new products on prophetic vision. I employed new staff on rhema words. I bought new equipment on hearing God's audible voice.

    I bought property on prophetic words.

    It was an extraordinary roller coaster journey hand in hand with God, and I saw and learned far more that I ever did in church.

    And that's why I see the argument about demarcation between the gifts as thoroughly infantile.
    From the first time I heard God speak to me in maybe 1963, I've never had the slightest interest in such silly debates.
    Over the years, God has used all possible means to get my intention including a billboard advertising Guinness. Perhaps you could categorise that one for me?
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2021
  3. ARBITER01

    ARBITER01 Legend

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    I think your testimony is amazing and you are to be congratulated for that! Honestly! GOD used you mightily that way where He couldn't in His church.

    But wanting to emulate and follow Jesus in a church setting or otherwise is not putting a straight jacket on The Holy Spirit, it's wanting to be successful and victorious with GOD.

    It is a little funny that you are wanting to sidestep established biblical examples by our Lord for your own ideas.
     
  4. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Those who opposed the great awakenings in New England in the 18th Century, and the Welsh Revival, and every revival since that brought thousands to Christ, levelled the same accusations. The opposition to the Toronto Blessing, and the Brownsville Revival was just history repeating itself. It shows that one cannot put new wine into old wineskins.

    Of course, the devil will try to corrupt every revival, because they are a threat to him. Jesse Penn Lewis knew that, and she wrote a book about it: "War on the Saints" to show the difference between the authentic manifestation of the Holy Spirit and the corrupted counterfeit. Pentecostals don't like her book, because they don't want to admit that the devil can introduce counterfeit manifestations that are so like the genuine that many cannot tell them apart, and that modern Pentecostalism is not the pure uncorrupted Spirit-filled movement they think it is.

    But, we must look at the fruit of these revivals. The devil would not start a revival that gets thousands of souls saved around the world. He is not one to shoot himself in the head. Therefore he is going to work to knock the revival off its trolley so that people lose confidence in it, causing it to die. This is why his demons are much more active during a revival where souls are saved, because he wants the soul-saving component of the revival to be neutralised as quickly as possible to preserve what is left of his kingdom of darkness. And he does it through good religious "Christian" people who have reputation and standing in the general Christian community, because they would be the ones listened to and believed, rather than unconverted people. Often these respected Christian leaders who have opposed the revivals, didn't realise that they were being influenced by demons to speak out against them. They were unwittingly being fed by a lie - that the revival was not of God, and so they thought that they were doing God a service.
     
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  5. topher694

    topher694 Go Turtle!

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    Unfortunately, this is a very common knee jerk reaction.

    I love this analogy and I'm going to steal it... lol. The problem the milk addicts have is that they can't see The difference between putting the straight jacket on the Holy Spirit and putting order on man.


    I love your business testimony too, I'm curious if you have ever heard of Ryan LeStrange? It's not his main ministry focus, but he has very similar prophetic/Apostolic business experiences as well, and does teach others to do the same.
     
  6. tturt

    tturt Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Someone disagreed that a minister could preach and give a prophetic word in the same period of time.

    Some can be dogmatic about the order and it has to be according to their perspective.
     
  7. topher694

    topher694 Go Turtle!

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    I'm not sure I follow. Was this said here or somewhere else?
     
  8. Francis Drake

    Francis Drake Returning adventurer.

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    Except much of what you say is the very opposite of emulating Jesus, ending up smothering spiritual freedom.

    To take words from @Oscarr who stole it from @Jesus, you can't put new wine into old wineskins.
    That precisely describes what happened at Toronto, the old wineskins bursting when the new wine of the Spirit fell on them. It messed up their neat and tidy churchianity good and proper.
     
  9. Francis Drake

    Francis Drake Returning adventurer.

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    The outfall of Toronto has to be one of the best illustrations of that principle.
    What's so sad is seeing the countless churches hit by what happened at Toronto, immediately trying to sew their old wineskins back together, or banning any wine that didn't match the old sour vinegar they'd been marketing previously.
     
  10. ARBITER01

    ARBITER01 Legend

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    Hmmmmm,......spiritual freedom.....

    What is that?

    Is that a biblical teaching that I've never read about?

    Did Jesus or any of the apostles talk about quenching spiritual freedom?

    Does that mean a lack of discipline in our church services?

    What is that suppose to mean?

    Do explain.
     
  11. Francis Drake

    Francis Drake Returning adventurer.

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    Methinks you are trying to be funny here.

    If you don't like 'spiritual freedom' try working out what 'spiritual bondage' means.
    If you don't know both these terms, maybe you are in the wrong game, but I suspect you know the answer to both.
     
  12. ARBITER01

    ARBITER01 Legend

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    If I was not supporting spiritual freedom then I was supporting spiritual bondage right?? It's a catch phrase.

    To be honest my friend, I've never been a supporter of any sort of Acts 2 type of revival scenario since there is no biblical example of it. We do have biblical examples of anointed apostles/disciples going into areas and the power of GOD upon them performing miracles for the salvation message to be preached, but there is no arrival of GOD on His own for some sort of demonstration of power beyond Acts 2.

    In other words, we should expect to see miracles happening around anointed disciples of Christ, and those miracles should follow them wherever they go. It's the example of Jesus that we are to expect.
     
  13. Carl Emerson

    Carl Emerson Well-Known Member

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    This was well beyond Acts 2...

    Those on ships approaching the East Coast at times felt a solemn, holy influence even hundreds of miles from land. Revival began on one ship before it reached the coast. People on board began to feel the presence of God and a sense of their own sinfulness. The Holy Spirit convicted them and they began to pray. As the ship neared the harbor, the captain signaled, “Send a minister.” Another commercial ship arrived in port with the captain, and every member of the crew converted in the last 150 miles of the journey. Ship after ship arrived in the ports of the East Coast with the same story. Passengers and crew were suddenly convicted of their sin and turned to Christ before they reached the American coast [Wesley Duewel, Revival Fire (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 1995)].
     
  14. ARBITER01

    ARBITER01 Legend

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    Again, we are to expect anointed/empowered disciples of Christ going into areas and the power of GOD flowing through them for the actions, not big amounts of people trying to pray GOD down into an area so that folks can do oddball fleshly things.

    The examples that we are to expect have to align with biblical accounts, or it is something wrong.
     
  15. Carl Emerson

    Carl Emerson Well-Known Member

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    Something wrong with everybody on a ship repenting and coming to Jesus ??
     
  16. ARBITER01

    ARBITER01 Legend

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    Carl, I don't care about what some report says, I care about what scripture says. If you wish to trust in such things, that is your choice.
     
  17. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    I think it has something to do with being released in the Spirit to allow Him to flow out of us with the ministries and gifts. Quenching the Spirit is the act of hindering the flow of the Spirit in oneself and others through unbelief and wrong teaching.
     
  18. topher694

    topher694 Go Turtle!

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    Wow, just wow.

    I guess you mean you care about scripture, except the parts the deal with our testimony.
     
  19. Carl Emerson

    Carl Emerson Well-Known Member

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    Are you suggesting it didn't happen?
     
  20. ARBITER01

    ARBITER01 Legend

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    No, I just don't care about it. Just because you or anyone else presents something outside of scripture as a fact on here doesn't mean that I'm automatically suppose to agree with it.
     
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