Speak lovingly of Mary

[katholikos]

Acts 6:8. It's already been posted.

But that verse does not have the same Greek - Kecharitomene - as it is in Luke. So it is not the same, and whoever posted it did not do his homework.

Philothei is correct.

 

[Philothei]

ΠΡΑΞΕΙΣ ΤΩΝ ΑΠΟΣΤΟΛΩΝ 6:8 (1550 Stephanus New Testament)

1550 Stephanus New Testament (TR1550)

8στεφανος δε πληρης πιστεως και δυναμεως εποιει τερατα και σημεια μεγαλα εν τω λαω


According to the Gateway bible... not the best source for Greek as it uses a translation of the text.. though.. it does not even uses the word Grace but pistis (faith) and (dynamis) strenth....


So... chances are there is a mistranslation...

I will find though the original text on line and get back... I am posititive it does not say "keharitomeni" though in any case... The most it would say is Grace... and maybe not even that..... Slim chances my friends... The mistranslation of many many Greek words that have "sipped" into English texts are unbelievable... and mind boggling...lol.....

 

[Philothei]

But that verse does not have the same Greek - Kecharitomene - as it is in Luke. So it is not the same, and whoever posted it did not do his homework.

Philothei is correct.

Agree and to be more honest and precise I will look it up in the original text that gateway bible does not have... and post it... Thanks.

 

[Uphill Battle]

But that verse does not have the same Greek - Kecharitomene - as it is in Luke. So it is not the same, and whoever posted it did not do his homework.

Philothei is correct.

what, that the text says Stephen was full of Grace? no, Philo is not correct. It does say that. You can argue the greek word, but that is what the text in acts says. Full of Grace.

tell me, what Greek does the verse about Stephen have? Charis? Charitoo? and even if it's a supposed mistranslation...

it doesn't really matter.

much is made about Kecharitomene. It means full of Grace, or something similar, as the translation isn't direct. That does not at all imply or state sinlessness.

 

[katholikos]

what, that the text says Stephen was full of Grace? no, Philo is not correct. It does say that. You can argue the greek word, but that is what the text in acts says. Full of Grace.

That may be what your translation says, but they are not the same in the original languages. That is a fact.

it doesn't really matter.

It never does when you are wrong, does it

 

[Uphill Battle]

That may be what your translation says, but they are not the same in the original languages. That is a fact.

like I said, it's irrelevant to the passage regarding Mary. The word, no matter what participle is used, no matter what root, no matter what form does NOT say "Hail Mary, sinless one." nor "Hail Mary, you who have been immaculately conceived." none of that at all. At least be honest enough to state that the bible isn't where it comes from, but from the extrapolation by your Church. the text itself does not support this.

It never does when you are wrong, does it

wrong about what? the fact that translations differ? fine. Just to make you feel better, I'm wrong about that. here you go. feel better?

now fess up. Admit that the text does not say anything at all about Marian sinlessness or immaculate conception.

 

[MamaZ]

Highly favored does not mean sinless still. Full of Grace neither.. Full of unmerited favor. Notice the unmerited part..

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

Highly favored does not mean sinless still. Full of Grace neither.. Full of unmerited favor. Notice the unmerited part..

I agree with you (and the others making/affirming that point)....


EVEN IF the term here has the specific meaning and requires the English translation that our Catholic friends insist that it does (and that's HIGHLY questionable), it is entirely irrelevant to our discussion. It does not indicate that Our Blessed Lady was conceived immaculately or had no sex ever or was assumed into heaven upon her death or undeath (depending on one's version of the new dogma) - anymore than it indicates that St. Stephan was. Like so many Catholic arguments, it not only seems enormously stretched but entirely moot to the discussion, IMHO just a diversion. Rather like asking a teacher, "How do we know the world is round?" "Because water boils at 212 degrees F." We get so many of those kinds of answers and it's just not helpful to our discussions here. It DOES serve to "kill" the thread (and I'm increasingly of the view that that is the specific reason why Catholics give the responses they do - to divert the discussion and get the attention off the dogma).



Thank you.


Pax


- Josiah





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[Philothei]

had no sex ever

why not use the 'ever virgin" expression? At least so that we know you are not talking about your girlfriend or the teen across the the street but a Holy person who brought forth the Incarnate Logos... Little respect goes a long way Josaih... don't you think so?

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

why not use the 'ever virgin" expression?

Open your dictionary. Look up "virgin" and "perpetual"
If it offends you, that's your issue, not mine, and you might wonder if it also offends Our Blessed Lady.




.




.

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

like I said, it's irrelevant to the passage regarding Mary. The word, no matter what participle is used, no matter what root, no matter what form does NOT say "Hail Mary, sinless one." nor "Hail Mary, you who have been immaculately conceived." none of that at all. At least be honest enough to state that the bible isn't where it comes from, but from the extrapolation by your Church. the text itself does not support this.

Right on target.

Admit that the text does not say anything at all about Marian sinlessness or immaculate conception.

It does seem quite obvious, doesn't it?






.

 

[Uphill Battle]

why not use the 'ever virgin" expression? At least so that we know you are not talking about your girlfriend or the teen across the the street but a Holy person who brought forth the Incarnate Logos... Little respect goes a long way Josaih... don't you think so?

virgin=hasn't had sex.
perpetual virgin = NEVER had sex.

it's not a lack of respect.

although your reaction DOES hilight the "taboo" or dim view that the PV proponents tend to place on human sexuality.

 

[Philothei]

If it offends you, that's your issue, not mine, and you might wonder if it also offends Our Blessed Lady.

It offends you as you show no respect.... I am not "wondering" as I am not the one using it...

 

[Philothei]

UB according to you the whole bible should be replacing words as virgin to "no sex"?

 

[Philothei]

although your reaction DOES hilight the "taboo" or dim view that the PV proponents tend to place on human sexuality.

So showing respect is out of taboo? Why you do not call Christ then the "no sex dude" ?

 

[katholikos]

In the Catholic apologetic bible, (the Douay Rhiems) it says full of Grace. That's what they're going to believe it says.

umm nope. It's because that's what the original Greek says. Peace

Right on target.

So showing respect is out of taboo? Why you do not call Christ then the "no sex dude" ?

LOL.

 

[Uphill Battle]

UB according to you the whole bible should be replacing words as virgin to "no sex"?

nope. I think the bible should include the word used. But no sex, virgin, is the same.

So showing respect is out of taboo? Why you do not call Christ then the "no sex dude" ?

no. not the matter of showing respect. the matter of how it seems impossible in the minds of those who believe in the PV that someone could be set aside for a holy purpose... AND have sexual relations with their spouse. The priesthood of the EO and RC denote this. They are somehow more "holy" because they don't get to have sex. It's a rather foolish thought. Virginity does not immediately give holiness, nor does a sexually active person have less access to holiness.

and no, I don't call Christ the "no sex dude." but then, you're making a false comparison. Josiah didn't call Mary "the no sex chick." you're getting up in arms because he used a common term for the same thing that YOU say. Perpetual virgin.

I would have no problem with the statement "Christ never had sex." It's just simple truth. He was unmarried.

you're making a mountain out of a molehill.

 

[Uphill Battle]

Right on target.



LOL.

you ever answer Albion about your tenure as a Catholic, and your age? Jus' wondrin.