Speak lovingly of Mary

[sunlover1]

Actually I'll even do you one better: I don't believe Mary is "perfect" either.

If she was without sin, she was perfect was she not?

 

[lionroar0]

If she was without sin, she was perfect was she not?

Peace

 

[katholikos]

If she was without sin, she was perfect was she not?

No, not neccessarily. She was a human being, after all. I mean, if YOU could manage to go through your whole life not sinning you would still be a fallen human with all the human weaknesses we all have. Only the almighty eternal God is "perfect". I'm sure Mary caught a cold, or made mistakes, or whatever... ...and those things could not happen to a "perfect" being.

Mary was "full of grace", that grace being a singular special gift from God. That does not mean that God conferred divine perfection on her. He just kept her from sinning, but I'm sure she erred in other areas besides sin.

 

[MamaZ]

No, not neccessarily. She was a human being, after all. I mean, if YOU could manage to go through your whole life not sinning you would still be a fallen human with all the human weaknesses we all have. Only the almighty eternal God is "perfect". I'm sure Mary caught a cold, or made mistakes, or whatever... ...and those things could not happen to a "perfect" being.

Mary was "full of grace", that grace being a singular special gift from God. That does not mean that God conferred divine perfection on her. He just kept her from sinning, but I'm sure she erred in other areas besides sin.

Where do we see where Mary was full of grace? For Grace is unmerrited favor.

 

[Amylisa]

Full of Grace was the title by which the archangel Gabriel addressed her.

"Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee."

Amen!

 

[MamaZ]

Full of Grace was the title by which the archangel Gabriel addressed her.

"Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee."

Amen!

Well actually He addressed her as favored on not one full of grace.

 

[Uphill Battle]

No, not neccessarily. She was a human being, after all. I mean, if YOU could manage to go through your whole life not sinning you would still be a fallen human with all the human weaknesses we all have. Only the almighty eternal God is "perfect". I'm sure Mary caught a cold, or made mistakes, or whatever... ...and those things could not happen to a "perfect" being.

Mary was "full of grace", that grace being a singular special gift from God. That does not mean that God conferred divine perfection on her. He just kept her from sinning, but I'm sure she erred in other areas besides sin.

You knew what I meant. Perfect, sinless, spotless. I could care less if she caught a cold. I'm sure Christ did too... yet we call HIM perfect.

Full of Grace was the title by which the archangel Gabriel addressed her.

"Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee."

Amen!

so what? How that translates into "oh, that means she was sinless" is not a logical line of thinking.

hey, if someone is full of Grace, someone else in the bible is sinless too!

Acts 6:8 Now Stephen, a man full of God's grace and power, did great wonders and miraculous signs among the people.

looks like Stephen was full of Grace too.

enter the "but it wasn't an angel that said it, so it doesn't mean the same thing" argument.

 

[Uphill Battle]

Well actually He addressed her as favored on not one full of grace.

In the Catholic apologetic bible, (the Douay Rhiems) it says full of Grace. That's what they're going to believe it says.

 

[MamaZ]

Stephen is the one that scripture says is full of Grace tee hee.. Mary is greeted by favored one.

 

[MamaZ]

In the Catholic apologetic bible, (the Douay Rhiems) it says full of Grace. That's what they're going to believe it says.

Awe.. I see

 

[katholikos]

Well actually He addressed her as favored on not one full of grace.

That is a poor translation from the original Greek. Allow me to quote something for you:

"The traditional translation, "full of grace," is better than the one found in many recent versions of the New Testament, which give something along the lines of "highly favored daughter." Mary was indeed a highly favored daughter of God, but the Greek implies more than that (and it never mentions the word for "daughter"). The grace given to Mary is at once permanent and of a unique kind. "Kecharitomene" is a perfect passive participle of charitoo, meaning "to fill or endow with grace." Since this term is in the perfect tense, it indicates that Mary was graced in the past but with continuing effects in the present. So, the grace Mary enjoyed was not a result of the angel’s visit. In fact, Catholics hold, it extended over the whole of her life, from conception onward. She was in a state of sanctifying grace from the first moment of her existence."

May I invite you to read the rest of the piece here: LINK

By the way MamaZ, I gave you a big long answer to your question about covenant. Didn't you read it?
Here: http://christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=48424340&postcount=358



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[hogndog]

Uh Oh my posts disappeared

 

[lionroar0]

In the Catholic apologetic bible, (the Douay Rhiems) it says full of Grace. That's what they're going to believe it says.

umm nope. It's because that's what the original Greek says.

Peace

 

[Uphill Battle]

Isn't it what the Vulgate says?

 

[hogndog]

Isn't this what Washer said?

http://video.google.com/googleplaye...2639273&hl=en&autoPlay=true&playerMode=simple

 

[MamaZ]

Steven was also full of Grace. But this in no way diplicts that Mary was sinless or more Holy. It neither diplicts that she is anything other than the earthly mother of Christ.

 

[Philothei]

double post (edit)

 

[Philothei]

edit

 

[Philothei]

Where do you see in the Bible Stephen to be called "full of Grace"?

 

[Uphill Battle]

Acts 6:8. It's already been posted.