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Actually yes it is the role of others to disprove a Christian Tradition. Which is held by all three of the Ancient Churches.1. It's not the role of others to disprove a claim, it's your role to prove it.
According you.You didn't quote any Scripture. If you had, the point would be OBVIOUS. None of them say ANYTHING about Mary, Mary's body, or what happened to that body the moment of her death (or undeath, depended on what version of the dogma you hold to). NONE of them offer an ounce of substantiation for this DOGMA of the Catholic Denomination.
ah... so it's admitted now that the trinity is in scripture? Because we keep getting told it's not, to bolster the position of other non biblical dogmas.yeah it says hte Father, Word, and Spirit are one -- but one what? This could easily be Sabellianism, or any other of the many Trinitarian heresies. The accepted understanding of the Trinity is thanks to the Church whether people want to admit it or not.
wrong, wrong wrong. That's nothing but an unmitigated copout. If you are going to teach something as truth, you have to forward evidence that it's truth.Actually yes it is the role of others to disprove a Christian Tradition. Which is held by all three of the Ancient Churches.
according to straingforward reading comprehension, actually.According you.
Peace
Josiah said:1. It's not the role of others to disprove a claim, it's your role to prove it.
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Actually yes it is the role of others to disprove a Christian Tradition. Which is held by all three of the Ancient Churches.
loinroar0 said:Josiah said:You didn't quote any Scripture. If you had, the point would be OBVIOUS. None of them say ANYTHING about Mary, Mary's body, or what happened to that body the moment of her death (or undeath, depended on what version of the dogma you hold to). NONE of them offer an ounce of substantiation for this DOGMA of the Catholic Denomination.
.
According you.
ah... so it's admitted now that the trinity is in scripture? Because we keep getting told it's not, to bolster the position of other non biblical dogmas.
The word Trinity is not there, and it is not laid out specifically. the scripture exists, however, that points to the trinity, that proves the dogma.
Read what?According to anyone who can read.
There's this rumor that started in the 1600's it's called Sola Scriptura. None of the Church fathers ever mentioned. Nor is it mentioned in Scripture.I can read the words on the page, and thus KNOW that there's NOTHING WHATSOEVER here that proves this rumor, or even so much as mentions anything related to such. Obviously. I know that, you know that, all God's children know that.
lionroar said:Josiah said:According to anyone who can read.
This is really quite amazing to me. We have avowedly Trinitarian Christians who insist that their trinitarian beliefs have no basis in the Word of God. Why? In order to substantiate their Marian dogmas which, by common agreement among all here, are most assuredly not in the Word of God. To denigrate the doctrine of the Trinity to the level of the fables surrounding Mary is absurd in the extreme.
As for biblical evidence of the trinity there are a multitude of scriptures, not the least being John 1:1-12 which establishes the deity of Christ. If Christ is God, according to that passage and there is only one God, then either God, the Father, does not exist (despite all Old Testament scriptures to the contrary) or there is one God with at least two natures - Father and Son. See also Colossians 1:15-22.
Romans 8:9 identifies the Holy Spirit as being both the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ. If He is the Spirit of both, and there is but one God, then we have established that God is one being with three persons - a trinity, as we would call it.
Double standard. The same Church that defined the Trinity defines "Their Marian Dogma."This is really quite amazing to me. We have avowedly Trinitarian Christians who insist that their trinitarian beliefs have no basis in the Word of God. Why? In order to substantiate their Marian dogmas which, by common agreement among all here, are most assuredly not in the Word of God.
We have avowedly Trinitarian Christians who insist that their trinitarian beliefs have no basis in the Word of God.
Double standard. The same Church that defined the Trinity defines "Their Marian Dogma."
Since the same Church that defined the Trinity belives that Mary was taken to heaven body and soul. Is mistaken about this. Their is no guarantee that the Church that defined the Trinity is correct about the Trinity.
Let's take a look.
John 1
The Word Became Flesh 1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning. 3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood[a] it.
6There came a man who was sent from God; his name was John. 7He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all men might believe. 8He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light. 9The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.
10He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God
It says nothing of the relationship of the person of Jesus between His humanity and deity. It does not state at what point God became flesh. Since God became flesh. It looks like He is no longer God but something entirely new. Maybe a spirit that gives the illusion of flesh since God is spirit. It also says nothing about the Holy Spirit.
Colossians 1:15-22.
15He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. 17He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross. 21Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of[f] your evil behavior. 22But now he has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation
It says that He was please to have all fullness dwell in Him. So Jesus is not God but seperate from God.
Romans 8:9
9You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.
Looks like two Spirits.
1st. There is the Spirit of God,
2nd. There is the Spirit of Christ.
Looks like one must have two Spirits.
And nothing about the relationship of the persons of the Trinity.
Nothing about the Trinity here.
Peace
Jesus is no longer a baby so why do you post these pictures that He is? He is not even on the cross any more. He sits on the right hand side of the Father.
Jesus is no longer a baby so why do you post these pictures that He is? He is not even on the cross any more. He sits on the right hand side of the Father.
Jesus is no longer a baby so why do you post these pictures that He is? He is not even on the cross any more. He sits on the right hand side of the Father.
It may come as a shock to you, but Christians who have no affinity with your church, but only with the Bible, have understood and believed that there is one God revealed in scripture and that He is Father, Son and Holy Spirit. It was not the church that invented the Trinity.
However, I respectfully ask you to show me the scriptures which provide a basis for believing in the assumption of the Blessed Virgin, her perpetual virginity, and her immaculate conception.
It appears that you now reject the biblical basis for the Trinity and believe that the BIble teaches the existence of many Gods. Thus, you reject the Bible and accept your church's teachings which you apparently you believe to be extrabiblical in nature. In that, how are you any different than any cult, such as Mormonism?
How do you handle John 10:22-33?
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